How Confident Are You In Babcock?
- Thread starter WTFMAN99
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Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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Could it be narcissism? How else can you explain people living in a complete fantasy land believing their truth, that this team is somehow suffering because of Babcock's coaching style, rather than believing THE truth that this team is performing at an elite level, the truth is as simple as looking at the team metrics. Every coach has a shelf life and eventually the team will decline in performance and eventually it will be time for Babcock to move on but that time is certainly not now.
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
I blame video games. Everyone thinks they know how to make a winning roster because they play NHL19, and the best way to win there is just to auto-lines so that the best players are together on the first line and the worst players are together on the 4th line.
The fact is, that doesn't work in the NHL. Sometimes your 3rd best player is on the 3rd line because they just don't work with your two best players for whatever reason.
Bottom line is playoff performance. We were out coached against Boston and if it happens again this year how many more chances does he get?
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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One of a few truths spoken here, he definitely has to prove that. First round exits get a little tiresome. The Leafs have to prove they can beat elite goal tending. The Leafs will have to go through probably 2 of these 3 teams. TB, Montreal, Boston. Vasilesvsky (sp), Halak, Price. Price has found his game, I thought I heard his GAA is below 2 (around 1.80) since Jan 1, Halak has stoned the Leafs this year and then there is Vas. Babcock has his work cutout for him.
I've heard this regularly. In your opinion, how were we out coached?
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
Because the Bruins had Chara and Bergeron and Matthews wasn't able to battle through them.
game 7: Continuing to play Gardiner regular minutes when it was clear to everyone he had imploded under pressure. Never calling a time out.
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
Our blueline was shit. Who was he supposed to play instead of Gardiner? Polak? 30-game veteran Dermott? He had to keep putting Gardiner out there and hope he figured it out.
If it happens again this year with Muzzin added, Dermott clearly being ready to play big minutes if needed and last year's performance from Gardiner in mind, then have at it.
Bruins actually used Krejci against Matthews and Bergeron against Marner in the series
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
IIRC, that was the matchup Babs went for in Toronto, but Bergeron played most of the time against Matthews.
Dermott was playing well and with poise, yet he played 11 minutes. why no time out after Boston tied it or went up a goal?
From what I remember Freddy sucked ass and choked in the 3rd of the game 7, he has been a very inconsistent playoff goalie so far, im not impressed with him
I thought you meant Cassidy employed some sort of superior strategy and was curious what you saw.
But you believe, because Gardiner had an awful game, Babcock was out coached?
That was a disappointing answer.
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
Ever thought that he looked like he was playing well was because he was playing 11 minutes?
Again, he had 30 games (37, to be exact) of NHL experience. Putting him out for a regular shift wasn't going to be better than putting Gardiner out and hope he gets going.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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Not a Babs hater but in fairness, the too many players on the ice calls against the leafs in the playoffs were inexcusable. Either run an efficient bench or start removing bench staff.
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
I still don't get this. Yes, Andersen was terrible in the playoffs, but he was the reason, along with some clutch goals, that we got the Caps series to 6, and he has great numbers with the Ducks for 2 playoff runs. There's no reason to be worried about his ability to perform in the playoffs.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Yeah, I don't think you remember that right. Go back and read through the PGT's. The prevailing sentiment you'll find there is that Dermott was struggling in that series.
It feels like every time we lose, people start talking about how we got outcoached.
95% these guys will claim Babcock is being outcoached when a bad pass is made during a shift, ffs, I can't take these people seriously, such bad hockey knowledge and even worse lack of common sense.
Wafflewhipper
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2014
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If i compare him to my two favourites of Burns and Quinn i like both better still.
Just what is Babcock brand hockey??? I don't really know what distinguishes him or seperates him from many great coaches in the league actually.
We have a offensive group very rarely seen in the salary cap era and they have not made significant strides as a group defensively.
Is that concerning to likely everyone of us on here!!! I think it should be and is.
The players have personally in many cases gotten to their prime and improved significantly in Rielly and and Kadri and Gardiner.
I don't think he has squeezed the best out of the group as a whole or used his bench very well.
I find him stubborn and i find the staff fairly negligible in being capable of finding the flexability necessary to beat a trap game plan against them.
He does not ride Tavares, marner, Nylander and Matthews nearly enough by giving them extra playing time in tight games!
Who says in what playbook that Hyman needs to be top 6 among forwards when we need to score a goal or two to catch up in a game.
The team takes no penalties even when discipline might be secondary under certain circumstances.
He is a good coach sure but Leaf fans know this darn game pretty well also and our star players should play in their rightful slots in the lineups.
Yeah I definitely have questions about his approach. He is not way way better than other good hockey minds behind many benches.
However he is one of the very best at maintaining a even keel and expressing expectations from players i have seen.
He never harshly throws any player under the bus, never never ever. He is respectful and arrogant and a good communicator in equal doses at appropriate times.
I wound not change him and think he will change and adapt better with this group and will win another cup with this team.
Not perfect but very very consistently conveys the same message and thats a great quality in any person i believe.
I like him
)
Just what is Babcock brand hockey??? I don't really know what distinguishes him or seperates him from many great coaches in the league actually.
We have a offensive group very rarely seen in the salary cap era and they have not made significant strides as a group defensively.
Is that concerning to likely everyone of us on here!!! I think it should be and is.
The players have personally in many cases gotten to their prime and improved significantly in Rielly and and Kadri and Gardiner.
I don't think he has squeezed the best out of the group as a whole or used his bench very well.
I find him stubborn and i find the staff fairly negligible in being capable of finding the flexability necessary to beat a trap game plan against them.
He does not ride Tavares, marner, Nylander and Matthews nearly enough by giving them extra playing time in tight games!
Who says in what playbook that Hyman needs to be top 6 among forwards when we need to score a goal or two to catch up in a game.
The team takes no penalties even when discipline might be secondary under certain circumstances.
He is a good coach sure but Leaf fans know this darn game pretty well also and our star players should play in their rightful slots in the lineups.
Yeah I definitely have questions about his approach. He is not way way better than other good hockey minds behind many benches.
However he is one of the very best at maintaining a even keel and expressing expectations from players i have seen.
He never harshly throws any player under the bus, never never ever. He is respectful and arrogant and a good communicator in equal doses at appropriate times.
I wound not change him and think he will change and adapt better with this group and will win another cup with this team.
Not perfect but very very consistently conveys the same message and thats a great quality in any person i believe.
I like him
)
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Polak was having a decent series too. In the the 3 games the leafs won, he played 18, 20 and 18 minutes. Game 7 he was a +3 but Babcock only played him 14 minutes
Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
Rielly - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Polak
Staple Gardiner and Dermott to the bench for the 3rd.
...If the Leafs lost that game after doing that, Babs would have been roasted by everyone.
Again, the blueline was terrible. Gardiner is shit (IMO) and he was still clearly our 2nd best blueliner last year. Babs would have been insane to sit him for anyone else on the bench.
You'll find everyone agrees almost unanimously that Trotz is an elite coach. What gets lost in everything is that he never actually coached a team past the 2nd round until last year.
Now when Bruce Boudreau gets brought up: he's been criticized to insane lengths for his lack of playoff success.
Both of these guys are elite coaches and have brought terrific results to the teams they've coached yet only one of them receives criticism for lack of playoff success.
The differentiating factor in all of this is reputation. Trotz' reputation that he's cultivated around the league safeguards him from most criticism. The reputation that Boudreau has cultivated more or less brings criticism for his lack of playoff success.
Babcock right now is safeguarded from criticism thanks to his reputation. His management of lines, ice-time and PP management has been completely awful. All of these people who say "LOL hfboards posters think they know better than babcock" are just a little behind the curve and they don't understand basic logic. One can do a simple comparison to other men in his field around the league and come to an easy conclusion that he does not get as much out of his talent than other coaches around the league get out of their talent.
It was actually comical how the whole episode with Randy Carlyle went down when he coached here. The coach was utterly f***ing awful from day 1 (which I was calling out the entire way along) and I got met with the same stupid and illogical responses that I get from criticizing Babcock. It almost seemed like overnight that the rest of the folks realized that he was indeed a horrible coach. Said poster who's not an NHL coach appeared to be onto something after all. And look at him nowadays in Anaheim - he's still doing that same ridiculous anti puck-possession system that he did here.
Reputation is a crazy thing and can blind so many people to the reality of things.
Now when Bruce Boudreau gets brought up: he's been criticized to insane lengths for his lack of playoff success.
Both of these guys are elite coaches and have brought terrific results to the teams they've coached yet only one of them receives criticism for lack of playoff success.
The differentiating factor in all of this is reputation. Trotz' reputation that he's cultivated around the league safeguards him from most criticism. The reputation that Boudreau has cultivated more or less brings criticism for his lack of playoff success.
Babcock right now is safeguarded from criticism thanks to his reputation. His management of lines, ice-time and PP management has been completely awful. All of these people who say "LOL hfboards posters think they know better than babcock" are just a little behind the curve and they don't understand basic logic. One can do a simple comparison to other men in his field around the league and come to an easy conclusion that he does not get as much out of his talent than other coaches around the league get out of their talent.
It was actually comical how the whole episode with Randy Carlyle went down when he coached here. The coach was utterly f***ing awful from day 1 (which I was calling out the entire way along) and I got met with the same stupid and illogical responses that I get from criticizing Babcock. It almost seemed like overnight that the rest of the folks realized that he was indeed a horrible coach. Said poster who's not an NHL coach appeared to be onto something after all. And look at him nowadays in Anaheim - he's still doing that same ridiculous anti puck-possession system that he did here.
Reputation is a crazy thing and can blind so many people to the reality of things.
Your logic seems to suggest that ice time minutes is decided before the game , that in-game performance of a player is irrelevant--- Gardiner you're playing 24 minutes, I don't care if you explode half way; Polak, you may have a good game but who cares, I'm playing you 5 minutes less than usual
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Leafsdude7
Stand-Up Philosopher
In this context (ie: playoff elimination game), absolutely. I mean, do you think Babs should staple Matthews to the box in a game 7 because he's had a bad two periods and play someone else instead?
In the playoffs, ice time should be situation-based, not base on nightly performance. Your best players should play when they need to play. You don't bench them for lesser players because of the way they've played over 2 periods in different kinds of situations.
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