Confirmed with Link: Hossa/Hino/Oesterle & 2019 3rd to AZ for Kruger/Entwistle/Maletta/Campbell & 2019 5th

[piteus]

This is the type of logic that will get a GM in trouble. They add up. I don't mind losing Oesterle, but Hino had some of the best /60 stats on the team and visibly took a huge step last season. I get a move with an eye toward the future, but they didn't need to make it right now. They should have remained patient knowing there are always teams looking to take on a contract for additional assets, especially one like Hossa's with a lot of cash savings. Next year they would still be able to re-sign Schmaltz, still have a year to move money to re-sign Cat, and also have more clarity on who fits in long term up front.

I'm not sure the Hawks make this move to sit on the cap space so I guess this entire discussion will be tossed out the window. There is probably another trade or two coming.

I never like going half way. If you're going to rebuild, you rebuild. If you're going to go for it, go for it. There's no sense in wasting time and be a middling team.

What gets GMs in trouble is figuring out the direction of the team. Figure it out and do what's necessary.

In a hard capped sport, wins and losses are cyclical. That's how the league is set up. They key is to stretch and maximize the time of your wins and shorten the troughs. If you're going to lose, lose with a purpose. Hino was going to be no better than Frolic or Stahlberg. Losing them wasn't fun either ... but they were all replaced pretty quickly. Heck, people loved Kruger 3 years ago ... now they gasp he's back.

Bowman needs to prove he has a plan. Sitting around another year is not going to make the Hawks magically better.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I never like going half way. If you're going to rebuild, you rebuild. If you're going to go for it, go for it. There's no sense in wasting time and be a middling team.

What gets GMs in trouble is figuring out the direction of the team. Figure it out and do what's necessary.

In a hard capped sport, wins and losses are cyclical. That's how the league is set up. They key is to stretch and maximize the time of your wins and shorten the troughs. If you're going to lose, lose with a purpose. Hino was going to be no better than Frolic or Stahlberg. Losing them wasn't fun either ... but they were all replaced pretty quickly. Heck, people loved Kruger 3 years ago ... now they gasp he's back.

Bowman needs to prove he has a plan. Sitting around another year is not going to make the Hawks magically better.

We're in total agreement here. It's absolutely the proper way to rebuild and it can be done in relatively short order if you have a front office and scouting staff that knows what they're doing. In 2018, it's pretty easy to sell a rebuild to the true fans. The fickle ones will be gone anyway, so there really is no excuse to get stuck trying to compete for the wrong reasons.

I think where a lot of the frustration stems in the fan base is misaligned expectations. So much of the talk heading into the off-season was that the Hawks were going to be a big player in the trade/UFA market, the roster would be overhauled, etc. Didn't happen.

Also, a lot of the justification for moves made over the past 18 months have been about getting younger, speed, etc, and that seems to have gone out the window. They just don't seem to have much of a vision or plan that they're willing to stick to.

I'd prefer to do what you're saying and that is to retool via drafting high and freeing cap space to piecing this team back together, methodically.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I remember the TT pain...I cry in my TT shrine each night. I assume you have a Hino shrine?

Hino is talented but expendable for what the Hawks got.

Couldn't afford a shrine after getting my "I love Vinny" tattoo.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Am I the only one hoping the Patches/Skinner rumor was leaked to make it seem like they’re moving Hino and Hossa to improve team but really they just want cap space...not ready to see Stan trade away Hughes.

 

[hawksfan50]

Well Arizona would not do this without a good return for themselves.. I doubt Entwhistle will develop to an NHL player ..but he is still only 19 has size ...would be power forward type.But again we will see how he develops in Rockford...And so we lose the 3rd for 5th we get back on the picks part of the deal and as for Kruger who is recovering from hernia surgery which hernia issues affected his play last season. .you could hope he would return to his "Q trusts him"glory years here...you could hope he wins 50% or more on draws..you could hope he helps our pk...

BUTSS we all know ..you cannot go home again. .these 2nd time around guys never seem to live up to their former level of play when they were here before..so temper your enthusiasm though Q will race about getting his pet 4C back ..The other 2 guys we got from Arizona are just bodies who will never make the.cdhow..

Now my predictions:

1.Hino will get bigger minutes in Arizona...top 6 minutes and will get more points than Toews this season!

2. Himo will emerge as a "star" with the Yotes for many years.

3. Kruger will play this season for the Hawks..get 4G 7a and -5 and 47.5/% on draws and then be let go to Ufa and not re-sign ed for next season.

5. Entwhistle either never sees the show or becomes a bottom 6 Centre or winger I'm the show..but we will not know which till about 2 years more development ..

6.The 3rd rounder we gave up to get back a 5th rounder means they guy they get in the 2015 draft in round 3 will probably be better than the guy we take in the 5th..

7.The key is how and when Stan deploys the extra cap space...

I do not think he now goes after Faulk by thowi g away more prospects and picks in pursuit of that ..I hope he refrains from that especially since Faulk is a liability defending his own zone .

Rather I think we add a rental at the TDL if we are in playoff contention ...but more probably we do nothing till next simmer when we. Will be major players I that Ufa market..


Bottom line...sad t
O see Hino go..but we have too many small skill forwards with D-Cat, Sikura Kahun and Kane ...sad we need to clear a spot for a different bigger type
to balance our forward group anyway ...So he had to go anyway ..
Since I think Stan is planning that cap relief for next season (2019/20)
I do not see going to the cap this season by using most of the relief now ...maybe at the TDL if we look to be a legit contender by then..or maybe only for a 1 season contract term for this season with an older vet (Nash?)

But really I think the plan is max the cap relief to the greatest posdible level to make a splash at Ufa market 2019/20 and that is why he needed the Hossa albatross contract remaining to come off the books.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Kruger will be a nice addition to the KKK line.

 

[PelleLindbergh]

what would be a return on either Skinner or Pacioretty? would Debricat or Schmaltz be on the table? Just wondering what kind of assets could be involved.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

If Bowman traded either of those two then he should be walked out of the building immediately.

 

[migi]

what would be a return on either Skinner or Pacioretty? would Debricat or Schmaltz be on the table? Just wondering what kind of assets could be involved.

My hot take is that if they are after Skinner or Patches, Saad is gone for Faulk. There havent been literally any rumours about wingers the whole summer except JVR but every team tried him because he was free.

I think realistic price for whole package is this: Saad for Faulk, Forsling + 1st 2019 for signed Skinner or Pacioretty.

For the record I would never do those deals.

And I’m also here laughing to my fellow Finn. I completely understand @CallMeShaft ’s opinion but my fellow Finn’s posts again are pretty off.

For me I just think they are very high on Kahun and they should be. They gave him the same bonuses as Panarin. Not saying he will be 70 point player but his wheels, playmaking ability and versatility is nice addition and bold prediction, but he will be better than Hino in next year.

Banking on 10+25 season for Kahun if playing top-9 minutes. I have Hino at the same point prediction. And next year Kahun is our 3C. Hughes starts on wing so.

 

[CallMeShaft]

If Bowman traded either of those two then he should be walked out of the building immediately.

If he dealt either for Patches or Skinner, he shouldn't get the satisfaction of walking out. Security should withhold him until it's a rainy day, then physically toss his ass out and let him land in a puddle of water.

 

[ClydeLee]

We're in total agreement here. It's absolutely the proper way to rebuild and it can be done in relatively short order if you have a front office and scouting staff that knows what they're doing. In 2018, it's pretty easy to sell a rebuild to the true fans. The fickle ones will be gone anyway, so there really is no excuse to get stuck trying to compete for the wrong reasons.

I think where a lot of the frustration stems in the fan base is misaligned expectations. So much of the talk heading into the off-season was that the Hawks were going to be a big player in the trade/UFA market, the roster would be overhauled, etc. Didn't happen.

Also, a lot of the justification for moves made over the past 18 months have been about getting younger, speed, etc, and that seems to have gone out the window. They just don't seem to have much of a vision or plan that they're willing to stick to.

I'd prefer to do what you're saying and that is to retool via drafting high and freeing cap space to piecing this team back together, methodically.

I still dont get these assessments because they did nothing to hurt the team long term or stop development of young talent or playing quicker. Removing 1 speedy winger that will be replaced by prospects like kahun, louis, sikura, etc. Does nothing against it. 1 to 2 Stop gap 1 year signings do nothing against that. Not when you're opening

If they added a big piece now that changes. That would be going off the direction of what is built. But again removing Hossa now could save close to 2mil next season. It's been then I all the past year expected a splash if any. That's when they'll know what they're paying from within and AA becomes movable with a 1 year remaining deal. More money saved for next year opens up the dream of Panarin ufa signing or a Dman.

 

[piteus]

We're in total agreement here. It's absolutely the proper way to rebuild and it can be done in relatively short order if you have a front office and scouting staff that knows what they're doing. In 2018, it's pretty easy to sell a rebuild to the true fans. The fickle ones will be gone anyway, so there really is no excuse to get stuck trying to compete for the wrong reasons.

I think where a lot of the frustration stems in the fan base is misaligned expectations. So much of the talk heading into the off-season was that the Hawks were going to be a big player in the trade/UFA market, the roster would be overhauled, etc. Didn't happen.

Also, a lot of the justification for moves made over the past 18 months have been about getting younger, speed, etc, and that seems to have gone out the window. They just don't seem to have much of a vision or plan that they're willing to stick to.

I'd prefer to do what you're saying and that is to retool via drafting high and freeing cap space to piecing this team back together, methodically.

I agree. Some of their recent FA signings and trades gave mixed signals. Luckily, none of them saddled the Hawks with bad contracts for the long term.

I'm just going to put my faith that Stan is going all in on the rebuild. I don't think Stan is playing for the 2018-2019 season. I think he has his eyes on 2019-2020, especially if Crow is healthy and Seabrook can be traded (or amnestied). Some of our younger players will be ready to contribute in 2 years ... and we have enough to add 1 TOP LINE player if not 2 dependent on our RFAs.

Let's just hope Keith and Crow can stay healthy until then.

 

[Pez68]

This thread has really separated the wheat from the chaff... It shows 100% who the intelligent posters are, and which posters are clueless... There is absolutely NOTHING about this trade to hate, unless Hino becomes a superstar. He's 24, people. He is likely the player he will be, from here on out. An undersized, 3rd line bum slayer, who might give you 40 points a season.

If you cannot see that the Hawks are not planning any of the recent moves around next season....I feel sorry for you. I really do. They are PLAYING THE LONG GAME.

 

[CallMeShaft]

This thread has really separated the wheat from the chaff... It shows 100% who the intelligent posters are, and which posters are clueless... There is absolutely NOTHING about this trade to hate, unless Hino becomes a superstar. He's 24, people. He is likely the player he will be, from here on out. An undersized, 3rd line bum slayer, who might give you 40 points a season.

If you cannot see that the Hawks are not planning any of the recent moves around next season....I feel sorry for you. I really do. They are PLAYING THE LONG GAME.

Guys who might give you 40pts and are signed for $1.5m don't grow on trees. A decision that makes the current roster worse deserves at least a little criticism.

It's not like I have a time machine that I can get in and go a full year into the future when the Hawks will hopefully no longer be trading away 40pt guys in their twenties to help the future of the organization...

 

[Pez68]

Guys who might give you 40pts and are signed for $1.5m don't grow on trees. A decision that makes the current roster worse deserves at least a little criticism.

It's not like I have a time machine that I can get in and go a full year into the future when the Hawks will hopefully no longer be trading away 40pt guys in their twenties to help the future of the organization...

He looks more like a 30 point player than a 40 point player right now. He had a hot stretch, but it's a small sample size. I don't see the game breaking talent in Hino that is going to turn him into anything more than a 40 point player. That's his peak. I think the Hawks have 2-3 guys that have that potential...and more. Without his shortcomings. What if Hayden gets regular minutes in the top 9 next season, and puts up 30-40 points? While being everything Hino isn't? Do you miss him? I don't think so. A big, strong, physical player that can put up those points is more valuable than a bum slayer all day every day.

 

[piteus]

Guys who might give you 40pts and are signed for $1.5m don't grow on trees. A decision that makes the current roster worse deserves at least a little criticism.

It's not like I have a time machine that I can get in and go a full year into the future when the Hawks will hopefully no longer be trading away 40pt guys in their twenties to help the future of the organization...

It's only a 2 year contract. Without getting rid of Hossa's contract, we were probably going to trade him next year anyways.

 

[CallMeShaft]

He looks more like a 30 point player than a 40 point player right now. He had a hot stretch, but it's a small sample size. I don't see the game breaking talent in Hino that is going to turn him into anything more than a 40 point player. That's his peak. I think the Hawks have 2-3 guys that have that potential...and more. Without his shortcomings. What if Hayden gets regular minutes in the top 9 next season, and puts up 30-40 points? While being everything Hino isn't? Do you miss him? I don't think so. A big, strong, physical player that can put up those points is more valuable than a bum slayer all day every day.

Your opinion of his abilities aren't the same as my opinion of his abilities. I see him as a 40-50pt forward in the future, not a guy who is a 30pt player. While I don't go into advanced stats all to often, those seem to suggest I'm right with this. Time will ultimately tell.

And Hayden and Hino play entirely different games. Hayden could've been a huge asset on our 4th line. Sure, he wouldn't put up as much points. But he's a big boy, plays a heavy style, and can contribute some offense. Him in a checking role makes this roster better. And if he gets bumped up to our 3rd line, that means our depth got worse without Vinny.

It's only a 2 year contract. Without getting rid of Hossa's contract, we were probably going to trade him next year anyways.

2 years, but he would've re-signed. Kid's from Chicago, he wanted to be here. And maybe he'll sign here as a UFA (if he ever gets to be one), but right now we lost a mid twenties year old winger who can get 40pts. Shit stings, especially if we don't utilize that cap space this season.

 

[ploppsdman]

1 of Chicago's issues is a lack of forward depth... So trading Hinostroza makes that situation worse.

Im confused at the timing of the trade... Why not make it at the draft... What does freeing up money now do for the team?

Short term, without any other shoe to drop, you're making a mediocre team worse. Long term it helps your cap, but seasons don't grow on trees. If you are making moves for next season (2019), you are losing 1 more year of Toews/Kane/Keith.

 

[crazyhawk]

For those Lord of the Rings fans out there ... Entwistle ... a summoning device for one of those very tall trees who can kick a$$ by the way!

 

[clydesdale line]

Never liked Hino, so I don't mind this deal at all. Then again, never liked Kruger either, but I had to pick a lane. If this gets Schmaltz signed, that in itself is a win.

 

[Enyaw]

Late to the party here ....

Good Deal .... Hossa contract had to be moved. Since all teams were at the Min Payroll ... not many places he could be traded.

Again ... who signed Hossa to this ridicules contract?

Lost very little with Vinnie leaving ... He is replaceable with Sikura/Kahoun etc

Hated giving up the 3rd but Hawks can get another back at TDL ... probably move Manning

Kruger is junk .... he falls over all the time, weak on skates and board battles .... absolutely no offense ... Im sure the advanced stat freaks like his numbers but he is overpaid (by Bowman) and replaceable ... I will give him that he can win a face off. Same people who think Advanced stats mean something also believe that winning face offs dont mean anything .............................He's here for a year then thankfully gone

 

[goldenbladz1]

This thread has really separated the wheat from the chaff... It shows 100% who the intelligent posters are, and which posters are clueless... There is absolutely NOTHING about this trade to hate, unless Hino becomes a superstar. He's 24, people. He is likely the player he will be, from here on out. An undersized, 3rd line bum slayer, who might give you 40 points a season.

If you cannot see that the Hawks are not planning any of the recent moves around next season....I feel sorry for you. I really do. They are PLAYING THE LONG GAME.

I agree with you. Hino is a decent player but his numbers will be equaled by Sikura and Kahun and Fiddy saying Hino will be better than Toews come on man.

 

[Taze em]

I think Hino has some more in the tank. He could touch 50 pts in his career. I'm excited about the caproom possibilities. I really like Paches and Skinner and Faulk and Panarin (obviously). If one of those guys is is on our team ill be satisfied depending on the trade.

 

[hawksfan50]

But again
..of Hono gets top six minutes and out -scores our vaunted $10.5 1C,fans will say Arizona stole a "star" from us...Point is. .Q was not going to use him top six much except for endless line blending due to fails in the top 2 lines ..but those would be short-lived cause nothing going works with Toews anymore and you cannot put him on line because Kane doesn't check anyone and Schatz has no clue defending our d-zone..That line would bec2 small and too poor defensively. .thus no spit for honoring our top six and he is not suited for 4th line checker. .so he would have to be a 3rd line winger ..and given AA is 3C now....then no playmaker and speed to work with Hino..In other words he was in the wrong situation with us ..but will blossom in Arizona ..

 

[ChiHawks10]

Laugh it up, what you know.

I know plenty. I will laugh it up. Because that post is so ridiculous I can't do anything but laugh.