Confirmed with Link: Hossa/Hino/Oesterle & 2019 3rd to AZ for Kruger/Entwistle/Maletta/Campbell & 2019 5th

[bwana63]

Raleigh is a great place to raise a family. Someone tell Seabrook.

For the infinite-th time, trading Seabs is wishful thinking. He'll be a compliance buyout, once the next NHLPA contract is approved.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Raleigh is a great place to raise a family. Someone tell Seabrook.

So is Rockford.

 

[piteus]

For the infinite-th time, trading Seabs is wishful thinking. He'll be a compliance buyout, once the next NHLPA contract is approved.

You obviously don't know ...

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

So is Rockford.

I turned out alright!

 

[Enyaw]

Late to the party here ....


Again ... who signed Hossa to this ridicules contract?

Meant to be sarcastic ........ best FA deal Hawks signed maybe ever ..... only issue was the length but needed to do that under old CBA to get the AVV down

Immediately gave the Hawks credibility ................ HOFer

 

[piteus]

Meant to be sarcastic ........ best FA deal Hawks signed maybe ever ..... only issue was the length but needed to do that under old CBA to get the AVV down

Immediately gave the Hawks credibility ................ HOFer

I thought you were being TIC. Unfortunately, contracts are a sensitive subject for many Hawk fans.

 

[bwana63]

Meant to be sarcastic ........ best FA deal Hawks signed maybe ever ..... only issue was the length but needed to do that under old CBA to get the AVV down

Immediately gave the Hawks credibility ................ HOFer

Maybe?

 

[bwana63]

I thought you were being TIC. Unfortunately, contracts are a sensitive subject for many Hawk fans.

In a hard cap world, contracts are friggin' critical. Those not sensitive about contracts are absolute fools.

 

[piteus]

In a hard cap world, contracts are friggin' critical. Those not sensitive about contracts are absolute fools.

Lord knows I've had numerous debates about fiscal responsibility on the board. I think people are tired of me railing on Toews, Kruger, and Seabrook's contract.

That said, I don't think any rational Hawk fans ever complained about Hossa's contract. It was necessary to put us over the top. Heck, I even understood the Bickell contract.

 

[bwana63]

Lord knows I've had numerous debates about fiscal responsibility on the board. I think people are tired of me railing on Toews, Kruger, and Seabrook's contract.

You're right.

That said, I don't think any rational Hawk fans ever complained about Hossa's contract. It was necessary to put us over the top. Heck, I even understood the Bickell contract.

Anyone complaining about Hossa's contract is a fool. Hell, the League changed its contract rules because of Hossa's (and other similar) contracts.

 

[BK]

Lord knows I've had numerous debates about fiscal responsibility on the board. I think people are tired of me railing on Toews, Kruger, and Seabrook's contract.

That said, I don't think any rational Hawk fans ever complained about Hossa's contract. It was necessary to put us over the top. Heck, I even understood the Bickell contract.

I don't see why as you tend to be rather logical. Seabrook and Kruger deals were bad even if you like the player (I think Kruger can serve a role on a winning team). Toews's deal is what is.

 

[piteus]

I don't see why as you tend to be rather logical. Seabrook and Kruger deals were bad even if you like the player (I think Kruger can serve a role on a winning team). Toews's deal is what is.

I never had a problem paying a lot of money to Toews and Kane. I just thought Stan could have signed them for $9mn per year instead if $10.5mn. it doesn't sound like a lot, but saving $3mn per year is a lot for a salary capped franchise. Stan should have gotten back something in return for giving them NMCs.

The Benchmark was Crosby at a $8.7mn cap hit at the time. Crosby was still the best player in the game. Malkin and Ovie were both $9.5mn cap hits. Both Kane and Toews got $10.5mn. They should have received somewhere between $8.7mn and $9.5mn. That's fair.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Crosby contract was old CBA and included extra years at the end (12 years total), just like Hossa/Keith. Comparing Toews/Kane deals to his is apples and oranges.

 

[JaegerDice]

My only issue at the time of the Toews and Kane contracts was how fast they did it.

If you negotiate over the course of the year and when it comes down to it, your franchise players want 10.5 or they're walking, yeah give it to them. They signed those deals about as soon as it was humanly possible to get the paperwork done. Why the rush? Rumor at the time was McDonough wanted them done before the convention, but that's sheer idiocy if true.

Ultimately, they were going to get more than Crosby and Malkin because the cap had gone up, was still projected to go up (hockey is run by idiots, any decent economist knows you track the imports/exports that most directly impact the GDP of your major markets), you were no longer allowed to tack on cheap years to drag the AAV down, and they won 3 cups. Team awards shouldn't impact individual player salaries, but they do. Because the market rewards them. You go on the free market as a 3 time cup champion, you will get paid more than a not 3 time champion with the same numbers.

 

[piteus]

My only issue at the time of the Toews and Kane contracts was how fast they did it.

If you negotiate over the course of the year and when it comes down to it, your franchise players want 10.5 or they're walking, yeah give it to them. They signed those deals about as soon as it was humanly possible to get the paperwork done. Why the rush? Rumor at the time was McDonough wanted them done before the convention, but that's sheer idiocy if true.

Ultimately, they were going to get more than Crosby and Malkin because the cap had gone up, was still projected to go up (hockey is run by idiots, any decent economist knows you track the imports/exports that most directly impact the GDP of your major markets), you were no longer allowed to tack on cheap years to drag the AAV down, and they won 3 cups. Team awards shouldn't impact individual player salaries, but they do. Because the market rewards them. You go on the free market as a 3 time cup champion, you will get paid more than a not 3 time champion with the same numbers.

Toews and Kane were great ... but I don't think anyone considered them the best player in the game. I mean the BEST. Kane still had off the ice concerns and hadn't won the Hart AND Toews never produced offensively like the BEST do.

The fact both Toews and Kane were up for free agency at the same time gave them leverage. They played the Hawks like a fiddle and either/both McDonough or/and Bowman caved.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I never had a problem paying a lot of money to Toews and Kane. I just thought Stan could have signed them for $9mn per year instead if $10.5mn. it doesn't sound like a lot, but saving $3mn per year is a lot for a salary capped franchise. Stan should have gotten back something in return for giving them NMCs.

The Benchmark was Crosby at a $8.7mn cap hit at the time. Crosby was still the best player in the game. Malkin and Ovie were both $9.5mn cap hits. Both Kane and Toews got $10.5mn. They should have received somewhere between $8.7mn and $9.5mn. That's fair.

Crosby is an insane person, and wanted an $8.7 million AAV because he is irrationally attached to the number 87. He should’ve gotten much more, so you couldn’t use that as the benchmark.

Too bad Kane isn’t insane like that, an $8.8 million hit for him would be nice.

 

[x Tame Impala]

The last 13 pages of this thread read like I'm on the Hawks Facebook page.


This trade was excellent. We've been worrying about the backend of Hossa's deal since it was signed, and now that concern of the last EIGHT YEARS is completely gone. Hinostroza is going to be a nice player, but we've traded away more for less before and he's ultimately very replaceable. Long term cap flexibility is a must for this team and now we have it. The trade needed to be made so the FO had cap to work with going forward.

 

[CallMeShaft]

lulz! If you think this trade was about reacquiring "a broken" Kruger, I don't know what to tell you.

Never said it was....

 

[piteus]

Crosby contract was old CBA and included extra years at the end (12 years total), just like Hossa/Keith. Comparing Toews/Kane deals to his is apples and oranges.

I get that ... but still, Toews and Kane were not at the level of Crosby, Malkin, and Ovie at the time. All 3 were Hart Trophy winners. That's comparing apples to apples.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I get that ... but still, Toews and Kane were not at the level of Crosby, Malkin, and Ovie at the time. All 3 were Hart Trophy winners. That's comparing apples to apples.

Bullshit on Ovie. I would have took Toews over him all day when Toews was at the top of his game. Malkin was always injured as well back then, which you could make a case against as well.

 

[piteus]

Bull**** on Ovie. I would have took Toews over him all day when Toews was at the top of his game. Malkin was always injured as well back then, which you could make a case against as well.

I can acknowledge your Malkin argument ... but I'm sorry Ovie was THREE TIME Hart Trophy winner by 2013. One might be a mistake ... but THREE is a trend.

So Toews wants to be paid 11% more than the 3x Hart Trophy winner. And Lord knows Kane had his issues until he finally matured ... which wasn't until the summer of 2015.

 

[Rolo]

9M would have been perfect for both. They prob make a s*** ton off endorsements too.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

9M would have been perfect for both. They prob make a s*** ton off endorsements too.

For whatever reason, the Hawks refused to play hardball with their core. They clearly chose a different path than the Lightning did.

 

[BK]

For whatever reason, the Hawks refused to play hardball with their core. They clearly chose a different path than the Lightning did.

Or the lightning have an advantage from a tax standpoint...

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Or the lightning have an advantage from a tax standpoint...

That’s true, but some player accountant posted a long thread on Twitter the other day that it’s not as big of an advantage as people think because players have to pay taxes to the state where they play each road game. It’s still an advantage for sure, but I don’t think it’s the only factor.

Yzerman publicly played hardball with Stamkos in a way Bowman never did with the core members.