News: Hobey Baker winner Will Butcher Confirmed to test UFA market August 16

[McMetal]

What Vash said, and I'll add that the judging for the Hobey Baker award is also heavily weighted towards things like character and sportsmanship in terms of who they award it to. While those are nice traits, and IMO a big reason why Butcher is getting some NHL buzz as a UFA, they're not good predictors of success in a top pro league where skill is so important.

 

[lifeisruff]

It sounds like he sucks and will never make the NHL

Hard to get excited

not sure if serious, but I'm an Rochester Americans fan almost as much as I am a Buffalo Sabres fan (I know it's weird). So even if he never amounts to more then a top 4 AHL defensemen, I still want him in my organization.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[JoeIsAStud]

What Vash said, and I'll add that the judging for the Hobey Baker award is also heavily weighted towards things like character and sportsmanship in terms of who they award it to. While those are nice traits, and IMO a big reason why Butcher is getting some NHL buzz as a UFA, they're not good predictors of success in a top pro league where skill is so important.

I agree the Hobey Baker is an award that is not always a great predictor of future pro success.

I can't agree that it overly geared towards sportsmanship and character, and that is the reason it is a poor predictor. Basically the best players in College Hockey each year are the Hobey Baker finalists. I guess if someone is a really bad guy or had an incident that might eliminate him from consideration, but basically it is a pure best player in college hockey award

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Still think that the Pens are a lock to sign him.

 

[SEALBound]

Still think that the Pens are a lock to sign him.

Pretty sure it's been reported by a couple people that they aren't really on the list. I would be flat out shocked if he signed in Pittsburgh.

 

[Patagonia]

not sure if serious, but I'm an Rochester Americans fan almost as much as I am a Buffalo Sabres fan (I know it's weird). So even if he never amounts to more then a top 4 AHL defensemen, I still want him in my organization.

I personally believe he'll likely end up at Buffalo or Florida (friends and coaches on the team). NJD is a darkhorse, but not too fond of the team or futures. Surprised LV is on the list since they have too DMen already in their system and need Forwards.

 

[Steal Your Faceoff]

What Vash said, and I'll add that the judging for the Hobey Baker award is also heavily weighted towards things like character and sportsmanship in terms of who they award it to. While those are nice traits, and IMO a big reason why Butcher is getting some NHL buzz as a UFA, they're not good predictors of success in a top pro league where skill is so important.

Those other attributes you bring up are almost always part of the makeup of these players anyway and the reason why so many of them were team captains. The winners might not always be the highest point leaders in the league but its not like their numbers fall far short. Some people overhype Butcher but I think a lot of his critics form their opinion more on whats happened to past HB winners before they even consider any potential he might have.

 

[Steal Your Faceoff]

I personally believe he'll likely end up at Buffalo or Florida (friends and coaches on the team). NJD is a darkhorse, but not too fond of the team or futures. Surprised LV is on the list since they have too DMen already in their system and need Forwards.

He does have connections with NJ as well as he played with Zajac's brother in college and has played with Santini on some US developmental teams.

 

[mouser]

I agree the Hobey Baker is an award that is not always a great predictor of future pro success.

I can't agree that it overly geared towards sportsmanship and character, and that is the reason it is a poor predictor. Basically the best players in College Hockey each year are the Hobey Baker finalists. I guess if someone is a really bad guy or had an incident that might eliminate him from consideration, but basically it is a pure best player in college hockey award

The voting history suggests there's a heavy weighting on off-ice things as well. Even the award criteria itself clearly state "Criteria for the award include: displaying outstanding skills in all phases of the game, strength of character on and off the ice, sportsmanship and scholastic achievements." Also it tends to become something of a career award in many years, rather then single season.

For example, let's look at 2015-16 (using this year as a F won, easier to compare then a D in 2017).

Overall ranking in D-1 scoring for 2015-16 Forward Hobey Baker finalists:

1st: Player A: Freshman, 38GP, 35G, 36A, 71PTS, 1.87PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
2nd: Player B: Junior, 38GP, 16G, 47A, 63PTS, 1.66PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
3rd: Freshman, 42GP, 27G, 33A, 60PTS, 1.43PPG, not a HB finalist
4th: Player C: Junior, 38GP, 32G, 24A, 56PTS, 1.47PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
5th: Player D: Senior, 39GP, 25G, 30A, 55PTS, 1.41PPG, team finished 24-11-4, 1st in Conference, missed playoffs
7th: Player E: Sophomore, 37GP, 22G, 30A, 52PTS, 1.41PPG, team finished 11-20-6, 10th in Conference, missed playoffs
17th: Player F: Senior, 33GP, 24G, 22A, 46PTS, 1.39PPG, team finished 19-11-4, 3rd in Conference, lost Round of 16 in playoffs
69th: Player G: Senior, 36GP, 18G, 15A, 33PTS, 0.92PPG, team finished 23-9-5, 1st in Conference, missed playoffs

Which of these players do you think won the 2016 Hobey Baker?

 

[Vashanesh]

I agree the Hobey Baker is an award that is not always a great predictor of future pro success.

I can't agree that it overly geared towards sportsmanship and character, and that is the reason it is a poor predictor. Basically the best players in College Hockey each year are the Hobey Baker finalists. I guess if someone is a really bad guy or had an incident that might eliminate him from consideration, but basically it is a pure best player in college hockey award

Even if you're right (and I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't follow the behind the scenes voting process enough to comment on it), and the off-ice/character assessments don't figure in. To clarify, my point was that the "pure best player in college hockey" is not an NHL-level impressive point to make when we're talking about 21-22 year-old players playing against, broadly, younger kids. Big fish in a small pond.

Those other attributes you bring up are almost always part of the makeup of these players anyway and the reason why so many of them were team captains. The winners might not always be the highest point leaders in the league but its not like their numbers fall far short. Some people overhype Butcher but I think a lot of his critics form their opinion more on whats happened to past HB winners before they even consider any potential he might have.

It's not a zero-sum point to say past Hobey winners are, with very limited exceptions, underwhelming NHL-level prospects/players. It's a factor in the discussion of Butcher, who has quite a few warts to his game, and winning the Hobey is arguably the biggest plus on his side.

He has some reasonably large question marks about whether or not he'll be able to transition to the NHL, and I really feel like the only reasons he's even being talked about is because he's yet another NCAA draft loophole, and he won the Hobey. It's been said here repeatedly, the Avs fanbase ranked him 17th in their prospect rankings. No one (within reason) was excited for Butcher to make the jump to pro. Yet here we are, talking about him far more than the 17th best prospect on ANY team deserves to be discussed.



It's not like I'm rooting for the kid to fail. I just don't think there's anything about him that warrants this level of dissection or discussion. There's simply nothing remarkable about him. And, in my opinion, the only two arguably remarkable things about him (NCAA draftee not signing with the team that drafted him, and the Hobey Baker award), are not that impressive, either.

 

[Blue Goose]

I personally believe he'll likely end up at Buffalo or Florida (friends and coaches on the team). NJD is a darkhorse, but not too fond of the team or futures. Surprised LV is on the list since they have too DMen already in their system and need Forwards.

We have five d-men who are pending UFA's and likely won't be here next year. Our recent draft picks will also need development. We'll definitely have a need for Butcher, as long as he doesn't mind spending this coming year in the AHL (oh look, our AHL team is close to his family!).

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Pretty sure it's been reported by a couple people that they aren't really on the list. I would be flat out shocked if he signed in Pittsburgh.

Thanks didn't realize that they might not be on the list. Maybe Buffalo or the Devils then.

 

[Patagonia]

We have five d-men who are pending UFA's and likely won't be here next year. Our recent draft picks will also need development. We'll definitely have a need for Butcher, as long as he doesn't mind spending this coming year in the AHL (oh look, our AHL team is close to his family!).

You're correct about the expiring contracts, but most of them are RHD, while Butcher is LHD.

LV will still have Schmidt and Reinhart - LHD on their roster for the next 2 years. They drafted Brannstrom and Hague (both excellent choices), both play LHD and higher on the depth charts. So unless the DMen plays an off wing position, there is little room for him on this team.

 

[howkie]

The voting history suggests there's a heavy weighting on off-ice things as well. Even the award criteria itself clearly state "Criteria for the award include: displaying outstanding skills in all phases of the game, strength of character on and off the ice, sportsmanship and scholastic achievements." Also it tends to become something of a career award in many years, rather then single season.

For example, let's look at 2015-16 (using this year as a F won, easier to compare then a D in 2017).

Overall ranking in D-1 scoring for 2015-16 Forward Hobey Baker finalists:

1st: Player A: Freshman, 38GP, 35G, 36A, 71PTS, 1.87PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
2nd: Player B: Junior, 38GP, 16G, 47A, 63PTS, 1.66PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
3rd: Freshman, 42GP, 27G, 33A, 60PTS, 1.43PPG, not a HB finalist
4th: Player C: Junior, 38GP, 32G, 24A, 56PTS, 1.47PPG, team finished 25-8-5, 2nd in Conference, lost Round of 8 in playoffs
5th: Player D: Senior, 39GP, 25G, 30A, 55PTS, 1.41PPG, team finished 24-11-4, 1st in Conference, missed playoffs
7th: Player E: Sophomore, 37GP, 22G, 30A, 52PTS, 1.41PPG, team finished 11-20-6, 10th in Conference, missed playoffs
17th: Player F: Senior, 33GP, 24G, 22A, 46PTS, 1.39PPG, team finished 19-11-4, 3rd in Conference, lost Round of 16 in playoffs
69th: Player G: Senior, 36GP, 18G, 15A, 33PTS, 0.92PPG, team finished 23-9-5, 1st in Conference, missed playoffs

Which of these players do you think won the 2016 Hobey Baker?

Player 1 is connor 2 and 4 are motte and compher( or compher motte) 1 of those 3 should have won, but

 

[Blue Goose]

You're correct about the expiring contracts, but most of them are RHD, while Butcher is LHD.

Wait, what? Four of the five expiring contracts are LHD - Engelland is the only rightie.

LV will still have Schmidt and Reinhart - LHD on their roster for the next 2 years. They drafted Brannstrom and Hague (both excellent choices), both play LHD and higher on the depth charts. So unless the DMen plays an off wing position, there is little room for him on this team.

Schmidt, Merrill and Theodore can all play RD. Brannstrom and Hague are teenagers that will need development time, and Butcher is four years older than them. I somehow get the feeling every NHL team has defensive depth better than (or similar to) ours.

 

[66-30-33]

Pretty sure it's been reported by a couple people that they aren't really on the list. I would be flat out shocked if he signed in Pittsburgh.

Meh, his loss. Pens are good at developing players from where he's at as of late, so no point coming here and try and take advantage of that.

 

[Stad]

Pretty sure it's been reported by a couple people that they aren't really on the list. I would be flat out shocked if he signed in Pittsburgh.

Mike Chambers said in his article today that the Pens are one of the 4 teams in the mix. It's Pens, Sabres, Devils and Vegas.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Still think that the Pens are a lock to sign him.

Nope Mackey confirmed they are out of the running tonight...

 

[Patagonia]

Wait, what? Four of the five expiring contracts are LHD - Engelland is the only rightie.



Schmidt, Merrill and Theodore can all play RD. Brannstrom and Hague are teenagers that will need development time, and Butcher is four years older than them. I somehow get the feeling every NHL team has defensive depth better than (or similar to) ours.

The expiring contracts are RHD, the team has an abundance of LHD.

 

[Not Sure]

hes coming to Buffalo, why wait till the weekend.

 

[Blue Goose]

The expiring contracts are RHD, the team has an abundance of LHD.

Garrison, Sbisa, Stoner and McNabb are all on expiring contracts. And all of them are LHD.

 

[mike30]

hes coming to Buffalo, why wait till the weekend.

hes coming to New Jersey, why wait till the weekend.

 

[DollardStLaurent]

I read that his agent, not Butcher, made this statement. He said that Butcher is working out and will return to his family over the weekend when a decision will be made.