Giotrapani91
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2015
- 564
- 36
I think eventually he goes in.Elias probably has the most nuanced and best overall case of the 6 but I doubt he ever gets in without a ticket.
I think eventually he goes in.Elias probably has the most nuanced and best overall case of the 6 but I doubt he ever gets in without a ticket.
Elias had 2 seasons that were easily better than anything Middleton did. It's like some posters still don't realize that overall league scoring dropped like a rock during the 1990s and stayed down.
Elias actually has more career points (unadjusted!) too.
While I agree with you that some posters don't realize that scoring went down, it's the same problem with the HHOF voting committee.
I doubt that they really analyze their selections all that deeply.
Eventually, they will realize they have relatively few 90s-00s players in amd relax counting standards. I agree that it probably won't happen immediately.
Unlike 99% of this board, I'm perfectly ok with HOF milestones. However, I don't necessarily look at it from a perspective of totals, but more a perspective of all time placement for the player's respective position.
This is where I set the standard for automatic induction in ANY era.
FORWARDS (top 20 all time)
Goals: 578 or more
Points: 1,392 or more
DEFENSEMEN (top 10 all time)
Points: 949 or more
GOALIES (top 10 all time)
Games: 869 or more
Wins: 424 or more
Shutouts: 77 or more
IMO those thresholds are HOF worthy in any era, where NO CONTEXT IS NEEDED. Meaning, any player that reaches any of the above milestone for their respective position at the time of retirement, that player is automatically a HOF'er.
Why am I ok with this? I believe the HOF is more than just about single season top 10 finishes and trophies. I think they're TOO relied upon when trying to pick HOF'ers. It's possible to have a HOF career without ever being an elite player.
I get your point but 424 wins in the current NHL setup isn't and shouldn't be any kind of benchmark for automatic induction IMO.
Luongo has 476 and he isn't automatic, although I do think voters will vote him in.
Cujo belongs in imo he's what 6th all time in winsLuongo is getting in. I have no doubt. Really the only indictment on him is the fact Cujo isn't in. I will say this though. Goalies are a lot more tricky for this line of thinking. Quite frankly so are defensemen, but at least they still have the ability to show offensive production.
Cujo belongs in imo he's what 6th all time in wins
I agree, and I think Luongo is going to fall into that awkward space as well.I've said it before about Middleton, if there was ever a player that needed a Cup to cement his status in the HHOF it's him.
I think there is some doubt. I'd rate Luongo's odds as 55-45, which means he has a fair chance, but if he'd won that game 7 (or just one more game that Finals), he'd be at maybe 80-20.Luongo is getting in. I have no doubt.
I'm just not seeing Elias as a HOFer. Four 30-goal seasons (never over 40 goals), highest Hart ranking is 6th, one post-season AS nod. Similar to Alfredsson who I don't think is a great candidate or Daniel Sedin without the signature year. I shouldn't say no to these guys as HOFers but more like there's 15 or so guys I'd like to see in before them.
As far as Middleton, adjusted for era, his total points rank him 174th all-time. I really like Tricky Rick but just not enough there for a HOF career (peak or longevity). As a point of comparison, Bernie Federko, sort a derided HOF pick, has a body of work that matches up to Middleton timewise and he's 112th in adjusted points.
My Best-Carey
I think there is some doubt. I'd rate Luongo's odds as 55-45, which means he has a fair chance, but if he'd won that game 7 (or just one more game that Finals), he'd be at maybe 80-20.
Cujo belongs in imo he's what 6th all time in wins
He also had 352 regular season losses
454-352-96
I agree, and I think Luongo is going to fall into that awkward space as well.
I didn't know games played was a Hall of Fame qualification. I mean, is Luke Richardson getting in because he played 1417 NHL games?He's one of only 3 goalies to reach 1,000 games and he'll probably finish his career with over 500 wins. He's quite easily getting in.
I didn't know games played was a Hall of Fame qualification. I mean, is Luke Richardson getting in because he played 1417 NHL games?
I didn't know games played was a Hall of Fame qualification. I mean, is Luke Richardson getting in because he played 1417 NHL games?
I can see the case for Luongo either way. I certainly don't see any justification for arguing that he's a slam-dunk. He has led the NHL in wins once, and in losses twice. He has never led in save-percentage or GAA, and has a middling playoff record.
The main case for him would be his two 2nd-team All Stars and his Gold medal. Three times he's been top-3 in Vezina voting (and five times in the top-4), which is impressive, but hardly earth-shattering when looking at 17+ seasons as a starter.
I think there is some doubt. I'd rate Luongo's odds as 55-45, which means he has a fair chance, but if he'd won that game 7 (or just one more game that Finals), he'd be at maybe 80-20.