HFBoard's 2020 Mid Pandemic Fantasy Football Draft Discussion Thread

[Cassano]

That's an interesting formation @Savant. I would've expected 4-3-3 with Benzema linking up with wingers rather than a 2 striker formation with Salah.

 

[YNWA14]

Considering his level at 17 and some of the players that went from the Eredivisie I'm pretty surprised that Ihattaren was overlooked, but I'm not complaining.

 

[Gecklund]

Considering his level at 17 and some of the players that went from the Eredivisie I'm pretty surprised that Ihattaren was overlooked, but I'm not complaining.

Was debating between him and Cherki but ended up with Cherki.

 

[YNWA14]

Was debating between him and Cherki but ended up with Cherki.

Can't really go wrong with either. Don't think there's enough hype around Ihattaren yet; maybe when he absolutely dominates the Eredivisie as an 18 year old.

 

[Cassano]

Considering his level at 17 and some of the players that went from the Eredivisie I'm pretty surprised that Ihattaren was overlooked, but I'm not complaining.

I was considering him, but went with D. Silva.

 

[YNWA14]

I was considering him, but went with D. Silva.

Not a bad choice either. Not sure why he isn't starting over Arthur for you tbh.

 

[Gecklund]

Question for everyone. Do we want to wait until the rosters have been posted and votes have been tallied for the next draft or do the draft during the voting?

 

[Cassano]

Not a bad choice either. Not sure why he isn't starting over Arthur for you tbh.

I think you're right. Especially considering Arthur has stamina issues.

 

[les Habs]

I almost took Lloris instead of Areola.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I almost took Lloris instead of Areola.

I thought you were going to get Cillessen made sure to grab him before your 4 picks.

 

[les Habs]

I thought you were going to get Cillessen made sure to grab him before your 4 picks.

Yeah, that was the plan. I wasn't too happy about that.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Yeah, that was the plan. I wasn't too happy about that.

Phew because I was about to stupidly wait until the last pick to draft him. Luckily I caught on quick.

 

[les Habs]

I'll save my commentary until all the teams make it to the roster thread. I'll just say that every team has some good and some bad, mine included.

 

[YNWA14]

I have the database completely set up and the competition created. I just need to figure out how to erase all the injuries so I can start the simulation.

That said if everyone could send me a preferred formation/roles and a tactical style (one of the presets so as not to give an advantage to the people that actually have FM, they are: Control Possession, Gengenpress, Tiki-Taka, Vertical Tiki-Taka, Wing Play, Route One, Fluid Counter-Attack, Direct Counter-Attack, Catenaccio and Park the Bus) I'll set up the teams that way and get the ball rolling.

 

[les Habs]

I have the database completely set up and the competition created. I just need to figure out how to erase all the injuries so I can start the simulation.

That said if everyone could send me a preferred formation/roles and a tactical style (one of the presets so as not to give an advantage to the people that actually have FM, they are: Control Possession, Gengenpress, Tiki-Taka, Vertical Tiki-Taka, Wing Play, Route One, Fluid Counter-Attack, Direct Counter-Attack, Catenaccio and Park the Bus) I'll set up the teams that way and get the ball rolling.

So just to clarify, but "roles" do you mean the roles of specific players, like "regista", etc?

 

[YNWA14]

So just to clarify, but "roles" do you mean the roles of specific players, like "regista", etc?

Yep

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Given the strengths of my team, I'll have to go for counter-attacking.

@YNWA14, I know you thought I might take Ihattaren. I definitely considered taking him, but there weren't enough rounds for me to justify it.

 

[YNWA14]

Given the strengths of my team, I'll have to go for counter-attacking.

@YNWA14, I know you thought I might take Ihattaren. I definitely considered taking him, but there weren't enough rounds for me to justify it.

For my money Ihattaren is better, more talented and more proven than say someone like Reinier.

It doesn’t give the full picture of just how good he’s been but Ihattaren was a top 10 goal contributor of players u20 in the top 10 leagues (7 goals, 9 assists) as a 17 year old where most of the others in that category are 2-3 years older than him.

It actually kind of surprised me that nobody grabbed Boadu on that note.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

For my money Ihattaren is better, more talented and more proven than say someone like Reinier.

It doesn’t give the full picture of just how good he’s been but Ihattaren was a top 10 goal contributor of players u20 in the top 10 leagues (7 goals, 9 assists) as a 17 year old where most of the others in that category are 2-3 years older than him.

It actually kind of surprised me that nobody grabbed Boadu on that note.

I like Ihattaren, but I don’t know about that. He plays for a top team in a high scoring league. He’s also played in the lesser of the two European competitions this season. He’s compiled 2668 first team minutes this season with 16 goal contributions (8G, 8A). His G+A rate is one every 166.75 minutes. For a player his age in professional football, that’s good. For a player his age being talked about with the very best his age, it’s nothing too good. I wouldn’t say it’s elite or worrisome. I think he’s a good player, but not someone I’m predicting will be one of the best in the world some day or is going to win Ballon d’Ors. It’s not as if he’s stepped into professional football and is statistically one of the best there is against the competition he plays against.

Reinier has been. He hasn’t faced the same level of competition as consistently yet, but that’s not his fault. I like both players, but if I’m picking between the two, I’ll pick the guy that has shown nothing but elite production every step of his career so far. Ihattaren didn’t show elite production this season. I’m not going to criticize him for it because I don’t think it’s needed to eventually be a very good player, but in this comparison, it’s the way I split two very good young players.

I had Boadu and Malen on my list. I didn’t want to pick a fourth CF, so neither became a serious consideration.

 

[YNWA14]

Could you provide examples of 17 year olds playing their first season of professional football and producing at a higher clip than Ihattaren? I’m interested to see what would be elite production for his age at that level. He’s dominated every level he’s played and make no mistake the numbers don’t even show how much he does in terms of link up, creating space and how many chances there were that he easily could have had double his production if not for inches. I don’t think his earning a spot on one of the best teams in the league and producing in Europa on top of it is a knock against him, given he took all that as a 17 year old.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So how does this ranking work? Are we just polling? Are their any rules as to how we poll, like we cant vote for ourselves? How about we rank the other teams and provide a write up instead?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Could you provide examples of 17 year olds playing their first season of professional football and producing at a higher clip than Ihattaren? I’m interested to see what would be elite production for his age at that level. He’s dominated every level he’s played and make no mistake the numbers don’t even show how much he does in terms of link up, creating space and how many chances there were that he easily could have had double his production if not for inches. I don’t think his earning a spot on one of the best teams in the league and producing in Europa on top of it is a knock against him, given he took all that as a 17 year old.

It was his 17/18 season, considering he turned 18 during the season. If you want an example his own age, look at Reinier. He played more limited minutes, so the comparison isn’t exact, but 6G, 2A in 727 minutes.

Historical examples are players like Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo, Sancho, and there’s occasionally the odd Dembele, Robinho in there. I’m not going to check every players stats at that age and some of these players birthdays don’t all align at the same times of year as each other, so it’s an inexact science, but usually the guys that are the Ballon d’Or contenders for years are the guys that pretty immediately statistically are elite. There are plenty of players who turn into very good players who aren’t, but the formula to be that elite level attacker for many years is rather consistent.

And I’m not criticizing Ihattaren’s stats. They are nothing I’d consider worrying, but they aren’t elite. Stats isn’t all the matters, but it is pretty remarkable how the formula remains consistent. If I’m picking between two very good players at that age, I’m usually going to take the guy that statistically has not budged from an unblemished record.

 

[Gecklund]

So how does this ranking work? Are we just polling? Are their any rules as to how we poll, like we cant vote for ourselves? How about we rank the other teams and provide a write up instead?

Basically my plan is when everyone has posted in the roster thread I’ll put a poll up where people vote for the top 3 teams. Vote for your own if you want. I don’t think it’ll swing the vote too much.

I’m personally leaning against a head to head matchup just because I think it’ll clutter the boards and it’s not like many teams in the biggest leagues have playoffs and most are just a table so this would be close to following that.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Considering a guy that scored 6 goals in Brazil a future ballon d'Or contender seems a stretch even more so considering where he's going and the team's track record developing young guys. Also he played something like 9 games? Could be a hot streak for all you know

 

[YNWA14]

It was his 17/18 season, considering he turned 18 during the season. If you want an example his own age, look at Reinier. He played more limited minutes, so the comparison isn’t exact, but 6G, 2A in 727 minutes.

Historical examples are players like Mbappe, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo, Sancho, and there’s occasionally the odd Dembele, Robinho in there. I’m not going to check every players stats at that age and some of these players birthdays don’t all align at the same times of year as each other, so it’s an inexact science, but usually the guys that are the Ballon d’Or contenders for years are the guys that pretty immediately statistically are elite. There are plenty of players who turn into very good players who aren’t, but the formula to be that elite level attacker for many years is rather consistent.

At the same age: Sancho scored 1 goal and 4 assists. Ronaldo had 2 goals in the Liberatores in 8 games and otherwise wasn't even playing top level. Messi scored 1 goal and barely played at all. Mbappe had 1 goal and 2 assists. Neymar is the only one of those examples that outproduced Ihattaren but he was a freak already at 17. Ihattaren had 7 goals and 9 assists (also in the only youth game he played he had 2 goals in 1 game), he also had the 2nd most chances created (behind Bergwijn, but he lost the ball half as much) on the team, the most dribbles, 2nd most fouls against (Dumfries the most), etc.

Aside from Neymar none of them were relied upon to be the top creator, nor did they become key pieces of their teams as Ihattaren has. Reinier is a great talent but barely played, and more than half his production came against the last place team in the league while he played for an offensive powerhouse and by far the best team in the league (neither of which PSV were) and he wasn't tasked with nearly as much responsibility as Ihattaren either.

And I’m not criticizing Ihattaren’s stats. They are nothing I’d consider worrying, but they aren’t elite. Stats isn’t all the matters, but it is pretty remarkable how the formula remains consistent. If I’m picking between two very good players at that age, I’m usually going to take the guy that statistically has not budged from an unblemished record.

Ok, but none of the players you mentioned aside from Neymar outproduced Ihattaren at the same age, and none of them were key players on top teams in their leagues either. So...