Hextall's Moves

[wasup]

I really don't get what some people are complaining constantly about Hextal for. Two years ago there was lots of complaining about certain players on the team MDZ etc... and when the year was over they were not resigned. This last year more complaining about certain players and he is not resigning some of them " Mandog" etc and said he could resign one if he can't get a better replacement" Filp ". We are complaining about Lethera Weise etc and trust me when their contracts are up they will not be resigned . So then he obviously see's the same thing as most on here but cannot do knee jerk reactions , players have one way contracts, no move contracts and some players we want traded there are no trading partners for so he is stuck .
Now player deployment is a completely different thing and the GM has to let his coach do his thing he cannot constantly micro manage him . In 2-3 years time it will be the team Hextal has created and if the coach" He "hired cannot get results then it is time to let the coach go.
You build thru the draft and when time is right you aquire a player or two to hopefully to put you over the top , constant knee jerk stuff don't work

 

[Rebels57]

I really don't get what some people are complaining constantly about Hextal for. Two years ago there was lots of complaining about certain players on the team MDZ etc... and when the year was over they were not resigned. This last year more complaining about certain players and he is not resigning some of them " Mandog" etc and said he could resign one if he can't get a better replacement" Filp ". We are complaining about Lethera Weise etc and trust me when their contracts are up they will not be resigned . So then he obviously see's the same thing as most on here but cannot do knee jerk reactions , players have one way contracts, no move contracts and some players we want traded there are no trading partners for so he is stuck .
Now player deployment is a completely different thing and the GM has to let his coach do his thing he cannot constantly micro manage him . In 2-3 years time it will be the team Hextal has created and if the coach" He "hired cannot get results then it is time to let the coach go.
You build thru the draft and when time is right you aquire a player or two to hopefully to put you over the top , constant knee jerk stuff don't work

Well, I mean, Hextall acquired those players in the first place..

 

[Lindberg]

Could you elaborate on this? More specifically: What would the extra point/not playing Lehtera with guys in our system have done for us to dramatically change our outcome.

1 point is what separated the Flyers and the wild card teams. Lets pretend that the Flyers finished with 97 points and the devils with 98 and they swap teams (Flyers - Lightning, Devils - Penguins). I firmly believe match ups can be (not always) the difference between winning a cup or not.

 

[wasup]

Well, I mean, Hextall acquired those players in the first place..

Yes but realizing you made a mistake then pulling the plug when you can is better than resigning them . Lethera was a cap dump for picks and Marazek was cause we had major injury problems the Weise one still is troubling cause even i thought at the time was not really that bad but he is not anywhere near what i thought he would be either .

 

[BrindamoursNose]

You guys are still arguing over popping zits when you have gangrene. We have a bottom five goaltending situation, very weak bottom four D, very weak bottom 6 and still came in third in a division where the first two teams were the last two cup champs. No way Hak gets fired or should he despite some questionable decisions. As many said early last year, Hak is here for the length of his contract until we don't make the playoffs or our young players regress. Lappy on the other hand needs to be reassigned.

Hextall needs to get a better goalie, imo by far the most important offseason move to improve the team. Getting a rhd to play with Provorov would be my 2nd priority (not so easy) so Ghost can play with Myers and Sanhiem can grow on 3rd pair with with Amac/Gudas. Forwards are the least of our problems and easiest to solve.

This is maybe my favorite analogy ever.

In sum, I pretty much agree with you. We have lots of roster issues which shouldn't be a surprise since we're rebuilding still.

 

[deadhead]

Well, I mean, Hextall acquired those players in the first place..

For nothing.

It's called a "rebuild," you know, when you accumulate draft picks, clear out cap space and don't spend assets on bottom six players.

He inherited Rinaldo, McGinn, Cousins, VdV, Laughton, Leier, he's already got 2 3rd rd picks and a 5th rd pick from this group.
He added Filppula and got a 4th and 7th in the deal, Lehtera was a salary dump, Weise was the only scrub that cost real assets.

This was a deliberate strategy, he's been using those mid-round picks to build up back of the roster depth, guys like NAK, Vorobyev, MV, this year Rubtsov, Laberge, Bunnaman, Twarynski, Kase, next year Strome, Sushko, Cates, Laczynski, Lycksell. The goal is to have a loaded Lehigh team backing up a solid bottom six group of forwards. So when you have an injury, or don't want to overpay a 4th line forward, replacements are ready and waiting.

 

[deadhead]

1 point is what separated the Flyers and the wild card teams. Lets pretend that the Flyers finished with 97 points and the devils with 98 and they swap teams (Flyers - Lightning, Devils - Penguins). I firmly believe match ups can be (not always) the difference between winning a cup or not.

Most seasons 98 points is a shoo-in for a playoff slot and even a favorable slot.
And I doubt Lehtera over Leier cost us anything, I've seen Leier.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Or, and stay with me here, you give those minutes to a kid in the AHL that is not only a better hockey player which makes the team better, but has a chance to develop his game. At the same time, the organization gets to see what said player(s)have to give at the Pro Level?

Accepting the Flyers willingly using one of the worst forwards in the league when better options were available that also came with the other benefits I mentioned above, is some next level Apologizing.

I'm just saying that it isn't a big deal he's being sparingly used. We've given many players the chance to play last year at one time or another from the AHL and they stick for one reason or another. If they don't look like they have their place yet in the NHL and they can get way more minutes in the AHL, it's probably best practice to put them there and let the guy you're paying over 4 Million to play.

So yes, I am accepting that Lehtera is on the roster playing minimal minutes on the 4th line since there were no glaring upgrades.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

1 point is what separated the Flyers and the wild card teams. Lets pretend that the Flyers finished with 97 points and the devils with 98 and they swap teams (Flyers - Lightning, Devils - Penguins). I firmly believe match ups can be (not always) the difference between winning a cup or not.

Matchups help, but at some point you'll have to pay the piper (meaning we'd definitely play a team way better than us).

We have holes all over and that extra point wouldn't have had us win those matchups against any of the top 4 or 5 East teams (most likely).

 

[deadhead]

The larger point being we need to focus on the bottom 6. When looking at the bottom of the roster marginal improvements can lead to big gains. Things like fit matter more. These players are also expected to contribute on special teams.

I see the bottom 6 like this
Laughton x Simmonds
Raffl x x

With x being open for competition. Without adding any free agents that means leir weiss and lehtera will be in the thick of it with guys like vecchione nak and misha. Frankly if two of the latter three arent beating two of the previous i think thats a serious critique of hextalls talent evaluation at the pro level.

Yep. 3C is the big hole until Frost is ready in 2019-20.

Lehtera, Leier and Weise are at the back of the line, they'll first look at MV, Bardeau, Knight, NAK as candidates for the 4th line, and of course, Vorobyev, who if he is sent back to the AHL, is a good bet to be up by January.

Weal is the wildcard, he might be the fallback option at 3C if Ron can't land anyone. Martel would be a very long shot in that role.
And of course, if Frost comes into camp looking like the "after" picture in a Charles Atlas ad, all bets are off!

I don't think Ron sees Laughton as a center anymore, combine his second half falloff at center with his revival at LW, he's probably slotted for LW on the 3rd line right now.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm just saying that it isn't a big deal he's being sparingly used. We've given many players the chance to play last year at one time or another from the AHL and they stick for one reason or another. If they don't look like they have their place yet in the NHL and they can get way more minutes in the AHL, it's probably best practice to put them there and let the guy you're paying over 4 Million to play.

So yes, I am accepting that Lehtera is on the roster playing minimal minutes on the 4th line since there were no glaring upgrades.

There was about 6 forwards on the Phantoms that should have played over him. Not to mention Lindblom could have easily gotten in 20 or so more games. He was ready earlier than he was called up.

We shouldn't even have an AHL team if there wasn't anyone on it better than Lehtera, who was one of the worst forwards in the NHL all of last season.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

There was about 6 forwards on the Phantoms that should have played over him. Not to mention Lindblom could have easily gotten in 20 or so more games. He was ready earlier than he was called up.

I would argue each of the players you have in mind (without even knowing specifically who you're looking at) are comparable to Lehtera for that role. Lindblom I of course agree is a better choice than Lehtera to be a Flyer in-general, but I think it does Lindblom a disservice to fill Lehtera's role on the bottom line, or frankly even the 3rd line when it's full of nonsense that we have. That's where I think TOI management and prospect development comes in for Lehtera being inserted into the lineup rather than a Lindblom (who ended up being on the roster to end the season anyway).

Again: Lindblom and other prospects' development can't be hurt by staying in the AHL a little longer. It'd be worse to rush a prospect than the other way around.

 

[SnS]

It's June 12th

HF Flyers used to be enjoyable year round.

Now it’s a toxic environment.

 

[Rebels57]

HF used to be enjoyable year round.

Now it’s a toxic environment.

Can't argue with that one.

 

[SnS]

Can't argue with that one.

I’d rather spend time over in the trading area or reading up on the baseball forum. And all that hoopla. Rather than spending time over here at the moment consistently.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

HF Flyers used to be enjoyable year round.

Now it’s a toxic environment.

It's true. I know I've had my part to play in it, but typically for the optimistic side of things. I wish the board was more positive even while not liking the current team.

Sadly, sports fans like being miserable with their outlook more than happy given the choice. That's the nature of a fan base though.

 

[pit]

Thats not at all what Im saying and Im not your bud.

 

[Lindberg]

Matchups help, but at some point you'll have to pay the piper (meaning we'd definitely play a team way better than us).

We have holes all over and that extra point wouldn't have had us win those matchups against any of the top 4 or 5 East teams (most likely).

The point I'm making is that you can't just write off a bad player and chalk it up to oh well. Points matter and they can matter more than one might think. The Penguins were probably the worst team for the Flyers to match up with this year. They probably still end up losing like the Devils but putting yourself in a favorable position for the playoffs matters (whether you want to drop the game, rest players or etc.)

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't think Ron sees Laughton as a center anymore, combine his second half falloff at center with his revival at LW, he's probably slotted for LW on the 3rd line right now.

He played almost the entire year at center and was the Flyers second best possession center. You have no idea what "Ron" is thinking, you're just pretending he shares your opinion.

Last offseason you assumed Weise was destined for Couturier's LW based on his brief appearance there at the end of 16-17. And we all know how that prediction worked out for you.

 

[Striiker]

Well, I mean, Hextall acquired those players in the first place..

And how many were mistakes at the time they were added?


Zero.

 

[Curufinwe]

HF Flyers used to be enjoyable year round.

Now it’s a toxic environment.

When was that? I got here over five years ago, and there was already a toxic atmosphere regarding the coach and certain players as the Flyers flamed out in the lockout season.

 

[Striiker]

HF Flyers used to be enjoyable year round.

Now it’s a toxic environment.

I don't remember that, but it's definitely getting even worse due to 24/7 complaining.

 

[renberg]

Now player deployment is a completely different thing and the GM has to let his coach do his thing he cannot constantly micro manage him .

You have to believe that Hextall and Hakstol talk regularly about things like this. I doubt that RH winds up Hakstol and lets him loose to do as he wishes. If RH has a problem with what is going on on the ice, he's going to have a sit down with the head coach about it. What we fan are seeing is what the management team thinks is best for the club both at this moment and for the future.

 

[deadhead]

Of course they talk, I doubt Ron would micro-manage, I'm sure he has plenty on his plate, but to think he doesn't discuss personnel decisions, strategy and scheme with his HC is ridiculous - how do you draft and trade if you don't know how a player is going to be used? And I'm sure Hextall watched film of Hakstol's teams at ND and knows what his approach and philosophy was before he hired him.

You see Hextall constantly at Flyer and Phantom games, it's obvious he's on top of what is happening on both teams.

I haven't seen one article suggesting any sort of rift between Hextall and Hakstol, unlike many teams where the GM and HC are at loggerheads (see Florida and Gallant getting fired). I think this is because Hextall hired Hakstol because he liked his approach to the game, and generally agrees with his "tough love" approach to prospects.

 

[Rebels57]

And how many were mistakes at the time they were added?


Zero.