Hextall's Moves

[Rebels57]

Lehtera sucks and I’m sure Hextall understands that. Are people saying he doesn’t because he isn’t buying him out? It’s pretty clear he isn’t buying him out because he thinks the cap space is more valuable in 2019-2020 than it is for this upcoming season.

Idk if people are Hextall apologists, they just understand that his plan is for this team to contend in the upcoming years, and that this team is still in the growing phase. Do the people who want Lehtera off the roster, I do as well, think it’s wise to buy him out? Because it’s easier to just bury him in the press box which he could still very well do.

Ill eat an entire box of Bisquick and not drink anything for 12 hours afterwards if the Flyers end up needing Lehteras $1.67 buyout cap hit in 19-20.

 

[The Madrigal]

Ill eat an entire box of Bisquick and not drink anything for 12 hours afterwards if the Flyers end up needing Lehteras $1.67 buyout cap hit in 19-20.

Obviously they don't and sadly Hextall and Hakstol think he's a useful player.

 

[duffy9748]

Ill eat an entire box of Bisquick and not drink anything for 12 hours afterwards if the Flyers end up needing Lehteras $1.67 buyout cap hit in 19-20.

But you can acknowledge there’s a chance that he’s buried in the press box and it’s smarter to not buy him out if that happens to occur, right?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

But you can acknowledge there’s a chance that he’s buried in the press box and it’s smarter to not buy him out if that happens to occur, right?

Make that a double for the Bisquick.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Another noteworthy thing Hextall mentioned is there will come a time soon when he has few draft picks. ie: He is willing to spend them to upgrade the team

Perhaps the Hex-tears on here are a little premature

 

[Striiker]

Unlike you I took my medicine and admitted I was wrong. You said something ridiculous and had an opportunity later to admit that it was just that when you were called out by several people. Instead you doubled down on stupid and made a pathetic attempt to talk your away out of it. That's one major difference between you and I, I have the character to, and am man enough to admit when I am wrong. You on the other hand are an extremely transparent insecure individual who regularly acts like a petulant child.

So I guess that's a "no" on the quote then, right? Man enough to admit that you're misrepresenting what was actually said? Let's find out.

And there's a difference between trying to "talk my way out of it" and re-stating the logic behind it (which still holds up in hindsight based on what was known at the time). I don't need to talk my way out of anything because I stand by both not wanting to do the trade then and thinking it would be bad to acquire him in a trade now. Both are simple concepts and both have been explained. I couldn't care less if you agree or not, but if you pretend it's not a rational opinion then you're just exposing your own bias.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

What's the deal with people being obsessed with Lehtera playing over guys like Leier, Golbourne, Vecchione?

Listen, I would rather see Leier and Vecchione play over him too, but who the hell cares in the end?

Seriously.

Does it change our team drastically either way? Will we all of a sudden have a good bottom 6 if one of them replaces Lehtera? Will we have made a deep playoff run? Would we be a top team?

If they're paying a guy a billion dollars to play and he's comparable to other players in the organization, I can understand wanting to play him instead of making kids play bottom minutes when they could get big minutes in the minors. Remember: you can almost never overcook a prospect, but you can undercook one.

It's just another one of those things that people who hate Hakstol (and to many degrees Hextall) cling onto. Now, I don't like Hak, but I can get over that with an improved roster this offseason. Using Lehtera's whopping 10:46 TOI/GP as a reason why Hextall is an idiot is just...really, really bad.

Summary: I don't like Lehtera there either, but he didn't prevent us or anyone else from doing something amazing this past season. We all know what it is: get through his contract (maybe even lucky enough to get a buyout this offseason) and we'll move on from him in exchange for a bonus 1st rounder this year. It's obscenely insignificant; then again, I'm very goal-oriented and I don't actively get weighed down by silly things like a 4th line player when we're not realistically competing for the Cup.

 

[Lindberg]

Getting another point in the season can make all the difference, icing Lehtera is just bad.

 

[The Madrigal]

What's the deal with people being obsessed with Lehtera playing over guys like Leier, Golbourne, Vecchione?

Listen, I would rather see Leier and Vecchione play over him too, but who the hell cares in the end?

Seriously.

Does it change our team drastically either way? Will we all of a sudden have a good bottom 6 if one of them replaces Lehtera? Will we have made a deep playoff run? Would we be a top team?

If they're paying a guy a billion dollars to play and he's comparable to other players in the organization, I can understand wanting to play him instead of making kids play bottom minutes when they could get big minutes in the minors. Remember: you can almost never overcook a prospect, but you can undercook one.

It's just another one of those things that people who hate Hakstol (and to many degrees Hextall) cling onto. Now, I don't like Hak, but I can get over that with an improved roster this offseason. Using Lehtera's whopping 10:46 TOI/GP as a reason why Hextall is an idiot is just...really, really bad.

Summary: I don't like Lehtera there either, but he didn't prevent us or anyone else from doing something amazing this past season. We all know what it is: get through his contract (maybe even lucky enough to get a buyout this offseason) and we'll move on from him in exchange for a bonus 1st rounder this year. It's obscenely insignificant; then again, I'm very goal-oriented and I don't actively get weighed down by silly things like a 4th line player when we're not realistically competing for the Cup.

SMH

 

[deadhead]

Getting another point in the season can make all the difference, icing Lehtera is just bad.

So is playing Weise, Leier or Read. They were all marginal NHL players last year. Advanced stats say none of them should play for a good team.
Which is why it really didn't matter which two of the four Hakstol dressed, the problem was he had to dress two of the four.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Getting another point in the season can make all the difference, icing Lehtera is just bad.

Could you elaborate on this? More specifically: What would the extra point/not playing Lehtera with guys in our system have done for us to dramatically change our outcome.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

SMH

I hate to have to say this about someone on my own team's board, but you've shown time and time again that your opinion is fruitless. I think there's 2 or 3 threads I'm still waiting for a response from you because you got cornered and couldn't get out of it without just saying "uhh Hextall sucks cuz I think so!" as a suitable response.

Now, back to the point:

Tell me what replacing Lehtera with any of the guys I mentioned would've realistically done. Would we have beaten Pittsburgh in Round 1? How about any of the other top Eastern teams?

Again, looking at the big picture: Lehtera playing last year was frustrating to watch, but that's all it was; it really affect our outcome.

 

[BillDineen]

Arguing Lehtera doens't hurt is the same as arguing any AHL player wouldn't hurt. Obviously playing Lehtera on the PK and extra in the third period hurt this team. Not icing the best lineup possible and icing vets over players that could be part of the future is downright stupid.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Arguing Lehtera doens't hurt is the same as arguing any AHL player wouldn't hurt. Obviously playing Lehtera on the PK and extra in the third period hurt this team. Not icing the best lineup possible and icing vets over players that could be part of the future is downright stupid.

That's almost exactly what I'm saying. Replace him with nearly any AHLer you want in our organization and I'm not certain it changes our outcome one bit last season.

Lehtera, from what I recall, played the 4th least TOI/GP this season for the Flyers. For all the PK stuff that gets pushed on him, he didn't play it all that much on average (haven't read into advanced stats or anything): he roughly played 45 seconds per game, which is good for the bottom 7 among forwards on the Flyers (of the regulars, not like Golbourne's callup or anything) ahead of only Konecny, Voracek, Weal, Weise, Patrick, Lindblom).

I wish I could find stats on 3rd period ice time so I could try and show how that it wasn't that destructive, but I'm at the mercy of memory for that.

Sure, he isn't a good player, but I don't believe any AHLer we'd call up is much better. Considering we weren't ready to win anything anyway, who really really really cares if he played last year?

Just so it doesn't get twisted: I didn't want him to play either. I wanted him to sit in the press box as soon as I heard we traded for him. However, it didn't really bother me that he played either. I see him as a tree in the background as of now since he'll be gone soon and he's not expected to do anything.

 

[freakydallas13]

So is playing Weise, Leier or Read. They were all marginal NHL players last year. Advanced stats say none of them should play for a good team.
Which is why it really didn't matter which two of the four Hakstol dressed, the problem was he had to dress two of the four.

Advanced stats also say Hagg shouldn't be playing, but here we are.

 

[The Madrigal]

I hate to have to say this about someone on my own team's board, but you've shown time and time again that your opinion is fruitless. I think there's 2 or 3 threads I'm still waiting for a response from you because you got cornered and couldn't get out of it without just saying "uhh Hextall sucks cuz I think so!" as a suitable response.

Jori Lehtera was probably the worst forward in the NHL last season and you are perfectly fine with him on the team and in the lineup. You really, and I mean REALLY shouldn't be referring to someone else's opinions as fruitless within direct context of your post about Lehtera.

Now, back to the point:

Tell me what replacing Lehtera with any of the guys I mentioned would've realistically done. Would we have beaten Pittsburgh in Round 1? How about any of the other top Eastern teams?

Oh I get it, because replacing Lehtera wouldn't have resulted in the Flyers beating Pittsburgh they should continue to trot out the worst forward in the league. While they are at it, they should bring him back for another season rather than buy him out at a cap hit of less than 2 million for the next two years which they can afford. It's this type of attitude that scares me about Flyers fans today and tells me all I need to know about you. This complacent attitude and acceptance is like a poison to the fan base and part of why Hextall is able to do stupid things like bring back a coaching staff that a 10 year old can see is horrible or continue to ice a guy like Lehtera who barely belongs in a men's league in Philadelphia.

Again, looking at the big picture: Lehtera playing last year was frustrating to watch, but that's all it was; it really affect our outcome.

Just plain sad and unreal that any Flyers fan would have this opinion.

 

[Rebels57]

But you can acknowledge there’s a chance that he’s buried in the press box and it’s smarter to not buy him out if that happens to occur, right?

I can acknowledge that, but theres no reason to think it happens. Hakstol loves him and his heavy game and Hextall is Haks bitch when it comes to the roster.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Jori Lehtera was probably the worst forward in the NHL last season and you are perfectly fine with him on the team and in the lineup. You really, and I mean REALLY shouldn't be referring to someone else's opinions as fruitless within direct context of your post about Lehtera.

Oh I get it, because replacing Lehtera wouldn't have resulted in the Flyers beating Pittsburgh they should continue to trot out the worst forward in the league. While they are at it, they should bring him back for another season rather than buy him out at a cap hit of less than 2 million for the next two years which they can afford. It's this type of attitude that scares me about Flyers fans today and tells me all I need to know about you. This complacent attitude and acceptance is like a poison to the fan base and part of why Hextall is able to do stupid things like bring back a coaching staff that a 10 year old can see is horrible or continue to ice a guy like Lehtera who barely belongs in a men's league in Philadelphia.


Just plain sad and unreal that any Flyers fan would have this opinion.

So, what you're saying is....

Lehtera didn't really affect our team's outcome last year afterall.

Glad we can agree bud.

 

[Hakroach]

Hextall is Haks ***** when it comes to the roster.

This illustrates perfectly my problem with Hextall as a GM.

 

[duffy9748]

I can acknowledge that, but theres no reason to think it happens. Hakstol loves him and his heavy game and Hextall is Haks ***** when it comes to the roster.

I’d wait and see what happens before bashing them about it then. Whether we like it or not, when a player is making more than 4.5 million a year, it’s hard to bury him for 2 full years. Now if you want to criticize taking him back in the Schenn trade, that’s a different argument, but it was necessary to get two first round picks.

If he’s playing this year as anything more than the 13th forward, then I’ll be on the same page.

 

[Striiker]

The problem with Lehtera isn't the effect he had last year. The real problem is what his usage means going forward.

If Hakstol can't see that he had better options available, then his player evaluation in the future will continue being a problem, even if Lehtera isn't the one he's overusing. Lehtera is a temporary problem, Hakstol's lack of common sense is a continual problem.

Luckily Hakstols toys are slowly being taken away, so even if Lehtera is here next year, he'll be gone the next, and replaced by a superior player. Vandevelde is gone, Manning is gone, Filppula appears to be gone, Lehtera will soon be gone, and we have plenty of people to fill those holes already.

 

[Curufinwe]

Arguing Lehtera doens't hurt is the same as arguing any AHL player wouldn't hurt. Obviously playing Lehtera on the PK and extra in the third period hurt this team. Not icing the best lineup possible and icing vets over players that could be part of the future is downright stupid.

Not only did playing Lehtera on the PK hurt the team (only Leier had a lower GA/60), he took SH TOI from Laughton in the second half of the season, which did not help his development.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

NHL.com - Stats

Not only did playing Lehtera on the PP hurt the team (0 points in 35 minutes), he took PP TOI away from Sanheim, which did not help his development.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[deadhead]

Again, there wasn't a rat's hair of difference between Lehtera, Leier, Weise and Read.
And the PK in the playoffs with Lehtera was one of the best units (SSS but hey, they did stop the best PP in the league).
So obsessing over his 10 minutes of TOI is simply a proxy for dislike of Hakstol, and not an educated critique.

The real problem was having these four as your "depth," not which two of these four was actually dressed for games.

And if you watched some of the AHL playoffs, it's obvious that guys like NAK and Vorobyev and MV weren't ready for prime time and wouldn't have been upgrades last season.

This is nobody's fault (well, Hextall dealing with Holmgren's mess) - depth players tend to be later round picks and they take 5-7 years to make the NHL for the most part (the few that do), and Hextall didn't inherit much, Laughton, Leier, Cousins, VdV, McGinn, Rinaldo. He's drafted a bunch of guys who'll provide this kind of depth in a couple years, just look at the Lehigh roster this year and next year.

And yes, Rinaldo and a dozen other forwards were worse than Lehtera last year.

This is one reason to be wary of trading prospects until the Lehigh lineup is packed with NHL capable players - injuries happen, and you want depth in your organization so you don't have to play scrubs.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And yes, Rinaldo and a dozen other forwards were worse than Lehtera last year.

More. And one of them is going to get a sizable ~3 year UFA deal.

He's still god-awful and worse than some other options they had. It can be both. Worse is still worse no matter what the difference is.

 

[The Madrigal]

So, what you're saying is....

Lehtera didn't really affect our team's outcome last year afterall.

Glad we can agree bud.

Thats not at all what Im saying and Im not your bud.