Head Coach discussion

[Lunatik]

By what standard? Winning a championship? By that rubric every coach that doesn’t hoist the Cup is underachieving. He probably should’ve been more specific as to what wasn’t achieved that could have been, & maybe even elaborated as to why he felt that was achievable in the first place?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't think I needed to be specific since anyone paying attention saw him underachieve, sometimes spectacularly.

In Washington Boudreau during the regular season won 4 division titles and 1 Presidents Trophy. In the playoffs the Caps were upset in the first round twice, including losing to the Habs who finished 20th 20th Overall during their President's trophy season. ANd upset in the second round twice, including a sweep to Tampa. No matter what standards you want to use, the Caps underachieved in the layoffs under Boudreau.

With the Ducks, Boudreau won 4 division titles. In the playoffs, they were upset in the first round twice in seasons they finished top 5 in the league; they were upset in the second round after finishing 2nd in the league. In 2014-15, I will give him and the Ducks credit, they reached the final 4 which is where they should have been. Again, 3 of 4 seasons they Ducks underachieved.

In Minnesota, he tool the Wild to the playoffs twice, once as a 2 seed in their division, the other as the 3 seed. They won just 2 games total between the two seasons. The end result may have been more or less what was expected, but they didn't put up much of a fight. I'll be generous and say they met lowered expectations.

So 10 playoff appearances, 8 division titles and he has a career playoff winning percentage of 0.478

I don't see how anyone can dispute he's underachieved when it mattered most.

 

[periferal]

By what standard? Winning a championship? By that rubric every coach that doesn’t hoist the Cup is underachieving. He probably should’ve been more specific as to what wasn’t achieved that could have been, & maybe even elaborated as to why he felt that was achievable in the first place?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not gonna speak for him, but all this is so nuanced. The job any coach does is tied in with how talented the roster is. Al Arbour or Scotty Bowman at their peak wouldn't have won anything with the Red Wings this year, but they might have gotten more production from the team than Blashill did.

Boudreau is obviously a decent coach, but he coached some serious talent in Washington and Anaheim and never really came close to a championship. If you want to argue that those rosters were not talented enough to win championships we can have that debate, but for me the way I judge coaches is how their teams do WHEN I COUNTS (the playoffs). Are they playing close to their potential? Are they playing at least as well as they did in the regular season? Are they at least giving maximum effort?

Those aren't easily measurable things so this is all opinion...And it's my opinion that Boudreau's teams don't play beter under him in the playoffs, and thus just to me...He's an underachieving coach.

 

[wraparound]

Not gonna speak for him, but all this is so nuanced. The job any coach does is tied in with how talented the roster is. All Arbour or Scotty Bowman at their peak wouldn't have won anything with the Red Wings this year, but they might have gotten more production from the team than Blashill did.

Boudreau is obviously a decent coach, but he coached some serious talent in Washington and Anaheim and never really came close to a championship. If you want to argue that those rosters were not talented enough to win championships we can have that debate, but for me the way I judge coaches is how their teams do WHEN I COUNTS (the playoffs). Are they playing close to their potential? Are they playing at least as well as they did in the regular season? Are they at least giving maximum effort?

Those aren't easily measurable things so this is all opinion...And it's my opinion that Boudreau's teams don't play beter under him in the playoffs, and thus just to me...He's an underachieving coach.

Thank you for taking the time to break it down. I see where you’re coming from & value your input

 

[periferal]

Thank you for taking the time to break it down. I see where you’re coming from & value your input

And I totally respect this reply. Thank you.


I will also add that I believe it's easier to judge GMs than it is coaches since they oversee all the aspects of a hockey team's production - How the players are acquired and who coaches them.

Therefore I think every GM can, and should, be judged by their record.

 

[Lunatik]

Not going to lie, it's hilarious that it was my opinion they were questioning then ignore my explanation

 

[wraparound]

Not going to lie, it's hilarious that it was my opinion they were questioning then ignore my explanation

I’m sorry, I must’ve missed it! No slight intended, I assure you. Your time & input are also appreciated

 

[Lunatik]

I’m sorry, I must’ve missed it! No slight intended, I assure you. Your time & input are also appreciated

I wasn't slighted, just amused

 

[Club]

Don’t completely rule out Joel Quenneville coaching the Kraken just yet

 

[Lunatik]

Don’t completely rule out Joel Quenneville coaching the Kraken just yet

That link is all based on Larry Brooks' comments and frankly Brooks isn't that reliable for the NY teams, nevermind ones he has no ties to

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Seems like Rick Tocchet will have a second interview with the Kraken.

Though, we're not the only ones.

[At least three of those teams are serious about Tocchet as a candidate, as Coyotes beat writer Craig Morgan reports that Tocchet had a second interview with the Rangers on Tuesday and will have second interviews with the Kraken and Blue Jackets before the end of the week./QUOTE]

 

[RainyCityHockey]

From Elliotte Friedman's 31 thoughts.

There’s definitely some momentum with Rick Tocchet and Seattle, but no indication a final decision’s been made. Had to wonder if Francis would want to talk to old friend Paul Maurice, but the Jets indicated their coach is returning. I was one of those people who thought, before this season, that maybe Joel Quenneville would end up in the Emerald City, but no idea how that could be possible after the terrific season Florida had. And, if something was going on there, we’d probably be hearing about people interviewing with the Panthers.

 

[jbron]

Really can't get excited about Tocchet. His work in Phoenix wasn't good. With Gallant going to the Rangers and Brind' Amour
likely staying in Carolina seems like Francis settled with an old buddy.

 

[Gniwder]

Really can't get excited about Tocchet. His work in Phoenix wasn't good. With Gallant going to the Rangers and Brind' Amour
likely staying in Carolina seems like Francis settled with an old buddy.

Gallant didn't have much of a track record before taking VGK to the Cup finals. In fact, he was fired twice after 3 seasons with 2 teams and only one playoff appearance. Numbers are very similar, and Tocchet didn't have much of a roster to work with in Arizona.

Tocchet is the safe pick here, he's got NHL playing and coaching experience. Not an exciting choice, but I'm gonna give him a chance before complaining.

 

[gstommylee]

 

[gstommylee]

Really can't get excited about Tocchet. His work in Phoenix wasn't good. With Gallant going to the Rangers and Brind' Amour
likely staying in Carolina seems like Francis settled with an old buddy.

Coyotes had more issues going on with that franchise than the HC. Lets not blame him for some of the issues down there in arizona.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

That's quite interesting.

I'd heard Friedman talking on NHL Network about the Kraken asking the Rangers for permission to talk to David Quinn.
Might be the guy Furness is referring to.

 

[gstommylee]

That's quite interesting.

I'd heard Friedman talking on NHL Network about the Kraken asking the Rangers for permission to talk to David Quinn.
Might be the guy Furness is referring to.

Or could be the person that the canes allowed other teams to talk to.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Or could be the person that the canes allowed other teams to talk to.

Yeah.

BTW: Lebrun writes about a couple of names in his article at the Atletic.

- Tocchet might be frontrunner
- Sharks assistant Rocky Thompson was interviewed but isn't in the running
- Islanders assistant Lane Lambert might be on the list as well, but Lamoriello doesn't let anyone talk to staff before the end of their playoff run

 

[gstommylee]

either way, fans need to stop being nitpicky on who seattle hires, we aren't going to get the best coach ever with the perfect resume as our first coach.

heck, i even seen lets hire an outside of the league coach with an unproven track record just so we don't hire anyone that coached in the NHL either as a HC or an AHC... God our fanbase can be so darn annoying. I would almost put them the worst fanbase in the league if it wasn't for vegas existing.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

either way, fans need to stop being nitpicky on who seattle hires, we aren't going to get the best coach ever with the perfect resume as our first coach.

heck, i even seen lets hire an outside of the league coach with an unproven track record just so we don't hire anyone that coached in the NHL either as a HC or an AHC... God our fanbase can be so darn annoying. I would almost put them the worst fanbase in the league if it wasn't for vegas existing.

Where do you hear that stuff?

I know some aren't high on Tocchet but I haven't heard/read anything all that negative about the supposed candidates.

 

[gstommylee]

Where do you hear that stuff?

I know some aren't high on Tocchet but I haven't heard/read anything all that negative about the supposed candidates.

Discord, reddit and facebook. Its been a bunch of don't want this don't want that.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I have said before, I am concerned about Torts as the head coach. Hoping they sort this crap out soon and hire someone good.

 

[CupInSIX]

either way, fans need to stop being nitpicky on who seattle hires, we aren't going to get the best coach ever with the perfect resume as our first coach.

heck, i even seen lets hire an outside of the league coach with an unproven track record just so we don't hire anyone that coached in the NHL either as a HC or an AHC... God our fanbase can be so darn annoying. I would almost put them the worst fanbase in the league if it wasn't for vegas existing.

I believe in you guys. You can be #1.

 

[jbron]

either way, fans need to stop being nitpicky on who seattle hires, we aren't going to get the best coach ever with the perfect resume as our first coach.

heck, i even seen lets hire an outside of the league coach with an unproven track record just so we don't hire anyone that coached in the NHL either as a HC or an AHC... God our fanbase can be so darn annoying. I would almost put them the worst fanbase in the league if it wasn't for vegas existing.

Sure there is something to be said for supporting which ever coach the Kraken hire. HF boards provides a great vehicle to discuss and offer
opinions on all things NHL and beyond. The Kraken fan base is just in infancy and if discussing their coaching hire is nit picking just wait till the entry draft, draft, and the actual games start.

I believe who the franchise selects as their first head coach sets the tone of management and ownership. Who they select and why is important.
Tocchet has a relationship with Francis and that's respectable. Surrounding himself with what he know is that what we can expect from Francis? I closely watched the last 17 games of the Coyotes as they were fighting for a playoff spot. Outside of the last two meaningless games against SJ, Phoenix went 3-12 when they needed to finish strong. This wasn't a situation with team ownership or the franchise. Tocchet made some questionable decisions and the team under performed. So that's a concern.
Further, Bill Armstrong is a great hockey evaluator and he had no trouble showing Tocchet the door after seasons end. That's a concern as well.
Certainly, Armstrong has the right to hire his guy and that might have played into his decision.

Time is approaching as Francis has stated he would like a head coach in place by months end.

 

[ultradan]

Sure there is something to be said for supporting which ever coach the Kraken hire. HF boards provides a great vehicle to discuss and offer
opinions on all things NHL and beyond. The Kraken fan base is just in infancy and if discussing their coaching hire is nit picking just wait till the entry draft, draft, and the actual games start.

I believe who the franchise selects as their first head coach sets the tone of management and ownership. Who they select and why is important.
Tocchet has a relationship with Francis and that's respectable. Surrounding himself with what he know is that what we can expect from Francis? I closely watched the last 17 games of the Coyotes as they were fighting for a playoff spot. Outside of the last two meaningless games against SJ, Phoenix went 3-12 when they needed to finish strong. This wasn't a situation with team ownership or the franchise. Tocchet made some questionable decisions and the team under performed. So that's a concern.
Further, Bill Armstrong is a great hockey evaluator and he had no trouble showing Tocchet the door after seasons end. That's a concern as well.
Certainly, Armstrong has the right to hire his guy and that might have played into his decision.

Time is approaching as Francis has stated he would like a head coach in place by months end.

you've nailed it - tocchet was unwilling to change up his plays, and played some absolutely boring hockey. i followed the coyotes pretty much from day 1 after they moved from winnipeg, and tocchet has been one of the worst coaches in my memory. boring hockey, doesn't inspire the team, doesn't take ownership for failure. he may make a good assistant coach, but head coach? no thank you. been there, done that, hated it.