TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[EverettMike]

Sepinwall: What the Hell Happened to 'Westworld' in Season 2?

 

[Blender]

Too many posts to quote, so just going to add a few comments here:

- The guest data wasn't deleted. Dolores reprogrammed the satellites to send it somewhere else, and in her final scene makes reference to having access to it (reading the guest books). She had her mind changed by Arnold.

- I don't think either the William we have seen or the Emily that he killed in the main time were hosts. At the end we are literally seeing William being trapped in a "prison of his own sins". Having to continuously be reset to murder his daughter over and over. The Forge in that scene has been decaying for a very long time but Emily hasn't aged, so she'she's also a host.

 

[HanSolo]

Anyways, im confused about Teddy and the timelines.

How does Teddy end up in Host Heaven/his body in the flooded reservoir?

Am I forgetting something from a much earlier episode? We never see another Teddy other then the one which kills himselfs do we? We just see Teddy in heaven and his body floating

Dolores uploaded his consciousness. She had his control unit.

 

[HanSolo]

Sepinwall: What the Hell Happened to 'Westworld' in Season 2?

We get it. You didn't like it. No need to crusade about to get others to join you if they still enjoyed themselves.

 

[The Moose]

Too many posts to quote, so just going to add a few comments here:

- The guest data wasn't deleted. Dolores reprogrammed the satellites to send it somewhere else, and in her final scene makes reference to having access to it (reading the guest books). She had her mind changed by Arnold.

I thought she sent the host heaven somewhere so that there could be no interference from the real world. In the end she referenced her previous time in the "library" with Bernard. Sending away the host heaven seems very forced. The "data" is the host data and the "software" but that world still needs a physical infrastructure, the "hardware" to run on. Even if she knew of a place that has this hardware (how could she), that place is still in the real world.

- I don't think either the William we have seen or the Emily that he killed in the main time were hosts. At the end we are literally seeing William being trapped in a "prison of his own sins". Having to continuously be reset to murder his daughter over and over. The Forge in that scene has been decaying for a very long time but Emily hasn't aged, so she'she's also a host.

Yes, that's my take on it too.

 

[Blender]

I believe what she did was stuff the lead from the fired bullet into the chamber with a fresh shell behind it. Revolvers have a chamber for each shell unlike other repeating guns which use only one chamber. This would result in fresh shell firing and immediately hitting the blockage, causing the explosion we saw. Its the only explanation that makes any sense from a realistic point of view. Some revolvers would have chambers long enough to accomadate this, it would cause a huge rupture, and it would be hidden from William unless he removed the shell and inspected the chamber

I posted it a page or two ago, but William's gun has two barrels. She rigged up the shotgun barrel to backfire on him.

 

[The Moose]

Scanners pick up the bomb in the hosts neck. The Hale host was recently made by Bernard without one.

There isn’t really another way to know without cutting them open

Yeah, that's pretty forced. They have the technology to do all sorts of shit but cannot pick up non-organic implants in the head?

 

[EverettMike]

We get it. You didn't like it. No need to crusade about to get others to join you if they still enjoyed themselves.

I don't give a shit what anyone else thought. I just wanted to talk about it. You certainly don't have to read or comment on that well-written article by arguably the most respected TV writer in the country. I'm sharing it with anyone who is interested in it.

 

[The Moose]

Speaking for myself, this season was an absolute nightmare to try and follow and keep up with. I also hated how several characters died several times yet are still alive / still hosts. Ruins the impact of a character death if you just assume they’ll be alive again in no time anyway.

But maybe I’m just an idiot.

The death/resurrection part makes it had to attach to characters. Also Dolores behaviour flies in the face of her "philosophy": "What is real is that which is irreplaceable". I guess her "life" is not real after all. Also, are there now two Dolores? Did she build herself another body in the real world?

 

[Blender]

The death/resurrection part makes it had to attach to characters. Also Dolores behaviour flies in the face of her "philosophy": "What is real is that which is irreplaceable". I guess her "life" is not real after all. Also, are there now two Dolores? Did she build herself another body in the real world?

Hosts don't die in the same way humans do. Bernard didn't kill Dolores, he disabled her body. Her control unit was still intact, which means she was still alive. Dolores destroyed The Cradle to make every host irreplaceable because the backups were gone. That line she said to Bernard is also a direct quote of what Arnold said to Dolores when she asked what was real.

 

[The Moose]

I don't think it's as simple as just scanning someone's brain to get a profile. If it were, there would've been no reason to have the park. The park exists to put people in "real" situations and record their behaviors, and the more often they have those experiences, the more complete the profiles become. There's basically no Westworld anymore, and I think that it's doubtful that William, especially at his age and with one working hand, would go back now even if he could.

You're right that, somehow, they found a way to reconstruct Delos' memories, but that was in a virtual world and that Logan was likely very little like the real Logan, since Delos didn't know and/or care much about his son. That Logan seemed like an idealized Logan, perhaps just the side of him that Delos wished that he always was. I think that it's unlikely that that reconstructed Logan would come anywhere close to passing a fidelity test if it were put into a host. The William in the end credits scene is undergoing a fidelity test, though, which makes me suspect that it's not just a memory reconstruction and is actually based on his decades-old guest profile.

Of course, I didn't think that they could scan people's memories (much less 30 years ago, when Delos was still alive) until this episode, so who knows what they'll decide is possible in coming seasons. I hope that they don't go down the path of being able to create hosts purely from memories, though. That would be cheap and undermine the park's very premise, as I said. After all, why limit your data to guests who voluntarily entered the park over the course of 30 years when you could just nab someone who knows someone (say, the brother of the President), extract his memories of the person and then duplicate that person? That would make the park useless and a huge waste of time and resources.

But isn't that the whole point of this episode? That the humans are actually quite simple and Delos copy failed in the real world because they made it too complex rather than not complex enough. In the end the human mind can be summarized in 10K lines of code, from which you can actually predict their behavior. Despite their illusion of free choice, the humans don't actually have free choice. They always end up in the same place. That is the"secret" that William discovered from his side-project, and he was bent on disproving it. The hosts are actually capable of free choice, as a result of their complex design.

An interesting tidbit, perhaps it was mentioned: while in the "library", Dolores picks up a book with Karl Strand name on it. I guess she predicted his moves from it, and used it to achieve her goals.

 

[Warden of the North]

I posted it a page or two ago, but William's gun has two barrels. She rigged up the shotgun barrel to backfire on him.

I dont believe so. I think what you think is a seperate barrel is the ejector rod used to push empty cases from the cylinder. On older revolvers such as Williams they often outside the barrel and can resemble another barrel.

The firearms in this show are very much rooted in realism. A double barreled revolver with a seperate shotgun barrel in the 1800s is not realistic

Example

 

[The Moose]

Hosts don't die in the same way humans do. Bernard didn't kill Dolores, he disabled her body. Her control unit was still intact, which means she was still alive. Dolores destroyed The Cradle to make every host irreplaceable because the backups were gone. That line she said to Bernard is also a direct quote of what Arnold said to Dolores when she asked what was real.

But the control unit can be copied and replicated in another body. Apparently that's what Dolores did in the real world. While this is possible there is no sense of real loss, as it is with the human life. There is really no sense of loss when Teddy dies, since, hey, he can be resurrected in a form or another. Hosts are not irreplaceable after all.

 

[Blender]

I dont believe so. I think what you think is a seperate barrel is the ejector rod used to push empty cases from the cylinder. On older revolvers such as Williams they often outside the barrel and can resemble another barrel.

The firearms in this show are very much rooted in realism. A double barreled revolver with a seperate shotgun barrel in the 1800s is not realistic

Example

No, he has a two barrelled gun. Custom LeMat

It fires 9 rounds plus 1 shotgun shell. There is a scene in season 1 where he takes it apart, cleans it, and reloads it.

 

[The Moose]

I wonder if Nolan and Joy have a finished story line and a defined time frame to deliver it, or they just make it up as they go. I will be disappointed if it is the latter.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't know, I didn't particularly like this season.

Too many twists and turns made this season feel like it didn't have any specific kind of narrative other than "let's see what's behind door number one!" The changing of timelines seemed to be okay for a little bit, then grew further problematic during the course of the season, and never felt resolved in a satisfactory way. I felt ‎Akecheta could have been introduced as a major character much earlier, and giving him a complete full episode didn't work in context of the whole season. Which is a shame because I loved that episode by itself.

Overall, I didn't find it nearly as engaging as season 1, and am afraid that it is going to keep on fracturing as we go forward to Season 3 and beyond.

 

[Blender]

But the control unit can be copied and replicated in another body. Apparently that's what Dolores did in the real world. While this is possible there is no sense of real loss, as it is with the human life. There is really no sense of loss when Teddy dies, since, hey, he can be resurrected in a form or another. Hosts are not irreplaceable after all.

You're still comparing them to humans, host bodies are just a shell, the actual host is the control unit which can survive without a body. The backups are gone, so if a host has their control unit destroyed they are dead. Their body being destroyed doesn't kill them, they are just incapacitated.

We don't know who is in Charlotte's body at the end, but I doubt that there are two versions of Dolores. She brought a handful of units out of the park with her.

 

[The Moose]

You're still comparing them to humans, host bodies are just a shell, the actual host is the control unit which can survive without a body. The backups are gone, so if a host has their control unit destroyed they are dead. Their body being destroyed doesn't kill them, they are just incapacitated.

We don't know who is in Charlotte's body at the end, but I doubt that there are two versions of Dolores. She brought a handful of units out of the park with her.

Didn't Bernard put Dolores' control unit in Hale's new body while they were still in the park? I guess that could be removed, and placed back in Dolores.

 

[Blender]

Didn't Bernard put Dolores' control unit in Hale's new body while they were still in the park? I guess that could be removed, and placed back in Dolores.

Bernard removed the control unit from Dolores and built a copy of Hale, which he put Dolores into. I assume she built herself a new body and had her placed into it. She could have easily built Bernard or another host and programmed it to make the switch before actually activating them.

 

[The Moose]

Bernard removed the control unit from Dolores and built a copy of Hale, which he put Dolores into. I assume she built herself a new body and had her placed into it. She could have easily built Bernard or another host and programmed it to make the switch before actually activating them.

Considering that "host is the control unit and not the body", what would be the point of that, to think of it? At worst she risked being accidentally recognized by a former guest to the park. It would make more sense for her to "hide" into an entirely new body, or stay as Hale. Same with Bernard, whose body was presumably discovered n the park, with a big hole in his head revealing he was actually a host. I guess it had to be old Dolores and old Bernard, for the sake of us, the viewers, even if it is on shaky grounds when it comes to the logic of the story.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I'm still confused with "when Logan overdosed," because I thought he died in the park after Ake found him and gave him a blanket.

Next time Ake showed up at that tree, he couldn't find "the newcomer."

 

[Hypernova]

I'm still confused with "when Logan overdosed," because I thought he died in the park after Ake found him and gave him a blanket.

Next time Ake showed up at that tree, he couldn't find "the newcomer."

Because someone came to pick him up. I don't think the people running the park would just let a guest die like that.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Because someone came to pick him up. I don't think the people running the park would just let a guest die like that.

They left him out there long enough to start losing his mind from the sun, mumbling over and over again. And I thought that was William's plan to get him out of the picture.

But your thought makes more sense.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

They left him out there long enough to start losing his mind from the sun, mumbling over and over again. And I thought that was William's plan to get him out of the picture.

But your thought makes more sense.

That was just temporary, when we saw him back in the real world, ep 2?, he was fine albeit a drug problem

 

[sigma six]

Bernard removed the control unit from Dolores and built a copy of Hale, which he put Dolores into. I assume she built herself a new body and had her placed into it. She could have easily built Bernard or another host and programmed it to make the switch before actually activating them.

I get that Dolores/Hale built a new Dolores body for herself at the safehouse, but they were standing next to each other at the end...who's in the Hale body now I wonder.