Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[GoldenBearHockey]

I just wrote up a big ol' post about how the Kings will have $13+M in cap space once you replace all the UFA/RFA with league minimum contracts and that you have to account for Byfield raise, and raises for some of the other players or their replacements but I couldn't stop myself from saying nasty things about some people with minions that will 100% get me tattled on so how do I create a burner account?

That 13M is figuring in raises for Byfield, Spence? or no?

 

[All The Kings Men]

That 13M is figuring in raises for Byfield, Spence? or no?

No.

It's baically $20M with 9 empty roster spots. Fill those in with league minimum and it drops down to $14M ish

that takes into account bonuses and salary retention but not raises for Byfield, Spence or replacements for any RFA/UFA they don't retain

 

[johnjm22]

This is what I see cap-wise:

^That's if you give Byfield and Spence bridge deals, and re-sign both Grundstrom and Lizotte. About 8M in cap space.

Those aren't intended to be actual line combos.

I suspect one of Grundstrom/Lizotte doesn't get re-signed. Not sure what they'll do with Kaliyev.

 

[Live in the Now]

Let Gavrikov go. Need a G and a LW3.

 

[kilowatt]

Let Gavrikov go. Need a G and a LW3.

Let him go where? He's got another year on his contract. Trade him?

 

[Live in the Now]

Let him go where? He's got another year on his contract. Trade him?

Yeah sorry. Yes, trade him. One year left and it isn't prudent to extend him and not great to lose him for nothing.

 

[All The Kings Men]

no move clause

 

[doug93003]

Now the the Leafs are out how long until Rob Blake is on the phone asking what the asking price is for Mitch Marner so he can play on a line with Dubois.

 

[bouncesonly]

Is 1-3-1 really a mandate from management? Hiller couldn't have said "lol, f*** that shit, we doing something else"

 

[johnjm22]

If you can buyout PLD for 1/3, and you don't qualify Lizotte/Grundstrom, you've got:

18.5M in cap space with these holes left to fill:

Fiala-Byfield-Kempe
xxxxx-Kopitar-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Lafreniere
Turcotte-Thomas-xxxxx
xxxxx

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
xxxxx-Spence
Englund

xxxxx
Portillo

 

[All The Kings Men]

Is 1-3-1 really a mandate from management? Hiller couldn't have said "lol, f*** that shit, we doing something else"

we don't know for sure but if one were to go back and listen to all the conversations with Blake, McLellan, Doughty, Hiller etc etc etc that is the narrative that emerges

 

[Statto]

Blake was named captain in 1996. 5 years later, he gave up the C after leading the team to zero playoff series wins in a contract dispute. And then he won the cup with some other team.

In 2006, he returned to the Kings, possibly Dean Lombardi’s worst decision of all time. He scores 34 points and gets paid $6M. Next season, he puts on the C once again after Matty Norstrom says eff it and retires.

Soon after the Kings draft Drew Doughty, Rob Blake packs his bags for San Jose for $5M and the opportunity to grab Patty Marleau’s captaincy when he was stripped.

This guy is a master at grabbing the bag and failing upward while never missing a good wave. We should all be so fortunate.

Whilst I agree with most of this, the original contract dispute was triggered by the team low-balling him (context that regularly gets missed on the subject).

I’ve threatened to walk from jobs in the past on that basis (then got paid), so I absolutely understand why he did what he did. The team didn’t value him so he reacted emotionally… I’m not saying he did the right thing, but I get it.

Not to mention the lip service that was spewed during these different phases. Like when he refused to waive his NTC to send him to San Jose for futures, because he "wanted to stay in LA" but then signed as a free agent 4 days into free agency because a deal wasn't made fast enough.

Agreed.

BTW. I do want him gone, I just like to see balanced points. It’s a thing…

 

[Statto]

no move clause

Which of course he could waive but gives him full control of where he goes to, reducing value.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Whilst I agree with most of this, the original contract dispute was triggered by the team low-balling him (context that regularly gets missed on the subject).

I’ve threatened to walk from jobs in the past on that basis (then got paid), so I absolutely understand why he did what he did. The team didn’t value him so he reacted emotionally… I’m not saying he did the right thing, but I get it.

My recollection is a bit different.

My recollection is that he was offered a very lucrative contract but that Chris Pronger was in negotiation with the Blues at the same time and Pronger's contract (larger than Blake's offer? Maybe?) reframed the negotiations between Blake and the Kings.

It was portrayed in the limited media of the time and on the nascent world of fan message boards as Blake "ripping the C" off his jersey but I think reframing it you can see that he felt that his ongoing contract negotiations could be a distraction and he felt the captain of a team shouldn't be part of an ongoing distraction and so offered to step down as captain not refusing to serve.

He was ultimately traded mid-season so in retrospect I can understand that position and while my opinions on the world of professional sports have changed a ton in the past 20+ years, I understand being under pressure from the players union in a non-cap world to make sure you maximize your earning potential because it would trickle down to every other contract negotiation around the league.

There's other details I'd quibble with but I won't.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Which of course he could waive but gives him full control of where he goes to, reducing value.

Sure.

He could.

If only there were some other defenseman in club history that was signed to a two year deal that didn't waive his no trade clause in the second season only to depart as a free agent once the second year of the contract was done.

If only........ there was.............

 

[Peter James Bond II]

If you can buyout PLD for 1/3, and you don't qualify Lizotte/Grundstrom, you've got:

18.5M in cap space with these holes left to fill:

Fiala-Byfield-Kempe
xxxxx-Kopitar-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Lafreniere
Turcotte-Thomas-xxxxx
xxxxx

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
xxxxx-Spence
Englund

xxxxx
Portillo

I am okay with this. If Blake goes, I'm only for that if Luc goes...if just Blake goes, I think Luc has always been the bigger problem. I think he was behind Kovy signing...consider the first time they courted Kovy, when he ended up with NJ, WHO took him and his wife around LA? Why, it was Luc and Stacia that took them to Rodeo Drive and around. I think Luc was the one that wanted Kovy part 2 and probably was first to contact him, or his agent...and Blake is part of the GM by management core. Yes, maybe he gets final call, but I bet Luc pushes his way on things he's hellbent about. Then Willie D. WTF? Terrible coach and main accolade was just coming off as Team Canada silver medal coach? I think this was a Luc thing. Matters not, so much, as Wille D's futlity, led to a higher pick....then Bergeron? Is that Luc or Blake, making that happen? Um...Luc, perhaps? Why? Then, PLD. And has E Duhashek (sp) who's been around like 50 years...claims it's a Luc / Brisson thing. I am not giving Blake a free pass...but if only one goes, it's gotta be Luc. I'm okay with both going. There must be autonomy and the GM must make the final calls and not have a President making player personnel final calls. Can you imagine Lombardi working under Luc? No way in hell.

I think Blake is not thee worst and has made some good deals and calls....recall he is the one that saw Brayden McNabb, when he was ast Gm and said he identified him as the best D in the AHL...good on him. Got Moore. Arvidsson. Danault signing a little risky with 5.5 for 5....esp never having scored over 13 goals. Phil has been great. I guess 2 broken index fingers shows why he was not optimum and that key line, Danault Arvy, Moore was not as expected..."my finger felt like it dislocated on the ice a few times" well...shttt. But what are Moore's, Arvy's, Filala's excuses? We know PLD's excuse, is he will be better next year...and back to Blake, Yannetti said he was 50-50 on 2 players in 2020 draft...and presented that to Blake and he said Blake told him the direection and who the player was...QB. I am glad he chose QB over Stutzle...now can see QB take Kopi's slot. No problem....the Fiala deal....if Kevin was more sure fire every night, would help. Maybe he needs his personal trainer? in LA? Geez. Gavy-Korpisalo....liked it and they made a big impact....Korp didn't give up more than 2 goals for like 3 weeks? Gavy was nails with Roy the rest of the season. Not the worst deal...IF, the Kings had a decent PK last year and this year. Not sure why Gavy AND Roy were a little off this year....others: Iafallo signing...Walker signing. Cal was a good signing - THE college free agent signing...not the second contract!...and he did good...but, should have never gotten that 5+ million deal. Sure, some bad things for sure....but there have been a lot of good moves. Turcotte #5? Maybe Blake trusted Granato a little much? However, Turc was nails USA Gold Medal WJC and if he does not get concussed 2-3 times? Maybe he;s #3 center...and possibly good enough by last year and PLD does not happen! Shttt happens out of any GMs control. You heard Yannetti in that Kings video at the draft table say to Blake "So, Byram's gone...so it's Turcotte?" Blake looked not so thrilled and said yes. They wanted Byram....sucks Kings were #2 seed and got kicked back to #5!!! Shttt happens. I am sure I'll be called a Blake lover and I am not...I don't hate him, though. I hate Luc and hope he's gone.

PLD. I am okay with this 1/3 buyout...this whole "I need to be better....it's on me. I wil do anything to get better". Geez. By year 7 NHL, this part of your career was at 18, 19, 20 years old. I've never seen a 25 yr old that 'needs to work on things, to get better...and get aclimated over 1 year'. Great. So waste a year, of everyone else's life? Everyone that busts their azzes off....I defended him some...but gave up a few months ago...but was still hoping he would come alive by playoffs. So bizarre he talks up how he loves LA yadda yadda....seems pretty cool and yet, cannot raise his game...you get glimpses or real talent...speed, power, nice, crisp passes that are top 6 sharp and the type a top 6 forward must make. Several of hos goals, were 15 foot snipes...and some of those hit posts or were tough saves....his vision is pretty good...but his board play was subpar...maybe they need someone to work with him...he's open to anything, right? I was wishing he would have been more beastly and dropped the gloves...he shouls have killed Hartman...but as that dragged on, the linseman held him and Hartman was taking shots...BUT PL should have gone with him, before linesman stepped in. I am ok with a buyout...but if they keep him, I'd play him at LW1 or LW2 and make QB his center...QB is ready for center now and give it to him. PL looked pretty good with QB the few times they played together...I just fkkking hate that they take PL and Fiala by yrs end and make them line 3 and 4. Why take veterans that are 25-27 and both had multipe 60+ pt seasons and put them with 91, 46, 61, WTF? All 3 of those guys are not capable of doing anything offensively...and your offense is already been teetering for 3 months and sorely needed in the playoffs. 3, 60+ point seasons, by age 25 is not an easy thing....BUT, it takes playing 16+ mins, playing PP1 and playing with Panarin, Atkinson, Ehlers, Connor. Even then, it's not an automatic 60 pts. So, why give him total shhht like 91 and JAD, who are waiver wire fodder and a rookie, that was ticketed for the AHL? And PP2? How can you expect more than 40 pts?

The Kings lost to EDM for many reasons...but when your PP scores 0 and your PK is giving up apx 50% , 2 years running....you do not even belong in the playoffs.
A few weeks ago, I was for trying to keep 1 or both Roy and Arvy. No longer. This thing needs scorched earth and I don't think that will happen...but there needs to be at least a house fire and the house is burnt to the ground. Maybe use unsurance policy buyout on PL. But, if you're keeping him? Lay the law down. He stays in LA this Summer and works with Matt Price and others...BUT, I let Roy go, Arvy go,,,try to trade their rights though. Lizotte is overmatched and overpaid...despite his heart...results are not great and 1 game 5 snipe does not get me out of my seat....3 goals last 40. He's a big part of the NHL worst playoff PK, 2 years running. Use this 1.6 mil on a goalie or bigger, badder 4th liner under 30 yrs old. Arvy? He did nothing in playoffs and cannot afford that or his 4+ million, Gone. Grundstrom, to me, is thee worst NHL forward. Gone. 'He is our hardest hitter on the forecheck" WOW. Nice. Never leads to anything and need 4th liners that have MORE elements and bring more. He;s worth1.3 million? NO way. Akil is way better now and has great instincts and has worked hard for a spot. Can kill penalties too. I;ll take Turc over Liz. Lewis? I hope he goes to Utah. Goalies? Tough call. I don't think Ullmark is great...Saros? At what price? I am not keen on blocking Portillo for 2-4 years...He turns 24 Sept. Is he the 24-25 answer? NO. But could he be a #2 next season? Why not? Esp if he leads Ont to a Calder Cup. A Saros or Ullmark is not taking the Kings to round 2 or 3....

Big deals? IDK. I don't see DD leaving LA and his 3 young kids, to go to TOR. Kopi seems he'll be here his last 2. Unless Kings sukking at deadline and he's open to going to somewhere for a Cup shot. I'd get rid of Murray / Emerson...maybe that wakes up Rob, if he stays? I think the Kings are not developing forwards as well as D or Goalies...interesting? They made Walker, Roy, McNabb, and to a degree, Forbort...and Anderson, Spence NHL defensemen...Their goalie coaches seem to be making Portillo good. But forwards? What AHL forward has come forward the last few yrs? Yeah, no one...Helenius, Chromiak, Madden, JAD, Fagemo, kind of stall....it seems. Ones like Vilardi, Byfield, Turcotte are good enough to push through....I hire NEW FORWARD DEV people. Worse, Pinelli scores like 5 goals in his last 10 and is scratched for playoffs, in favor of vets that will never play for the Kings? BS!

'Coaching? This is too long and James Joyce-ian shtt as it is now...as i've been told before and that's okay company. Shttt. If #21 OA is dealt it had better be for someone damn fukking good that 'is good at hockey'. I like some of the #21 territory..Boissvert, Hage, Hemming..Ritchie...that Nygaard (sp) one too and a few others. I am sure they can nab someone good there, that is NOT vanilla-small-limited upside Jack(the wrong one) Hughes. Should be an interesting Summer. GO KINGS! ?

I an done with Matt Roy. No urgency and was pretty bad the last month. Spence is the better player now and forward. If they sign Roy and trade Spence? Will be a HUGE mistake....Spence's trade value may be OK, but still below how good he truly is! It's time for Clake and the RHD to go is Roy. I put Spence on the ice in all situations over Roy.

 

[Statto]

My recollection is a bit different.

My recollection is that he was offered a very lucrative contract but that Chris Pronger was in negotiation with the Blues at the same time and Pronger's contract (larger than Blake's offer? Maybe?) reframed the negotiations between Blake and the Kings.

It was portrayed in the limited media of the time and on the nascent world of fan message boards as Blake "ripping the C" off his jersey but I think reframing it you can see that he felt that his ongoing contract negotiations could be a distraction and he felt the captain of a team shouldn't be part of an ongoing distraction and so offered to step down as captain not refusing to serve.

He was ultimately traded mid-season so in retrospect I can understand that position and while my opinions on the world of professional sports have changed a ton in the past 20+ years, I understand being under pressure from the players union in a non-cap world to make sure you maximize your earning potential because it would trickle down to every other contract negotiation around the league.

There's other details I'd quibble with but I won't.

Thank you.

To be fair, my recollection is based on much more limited information so I wouldn’t dispute any of your account. At the time I’d have read about what happened in UK hockey media… which means I shouldn’t have given what I read any credence. I’ve seen various things over time that have said/implied that they low balled him but that was almost certainly on message boards.

My recollection was always that he didn’t ‘rip off the C’ as has become the narrative. So I appreciate the more informed background.

 

[Statto]

I am okay with this. If Blake goes, I'm only for that if Luc goes...if just Blake goes, I think Luc has always been the bigger problem. I think he was behind Kovy signing...consider the first time they courted Kovy, when he ended up with NJ, WHO took him and his wife around LA? Why, it was Luc and Stacia that took them to Rodeo Drive and around. I think Luc was the one that wanted Kovy part 2 and probably was first to contact him, or his agent...and Blake is part of the GM by management core. Yes, maybe he gets final call, but I bet Luc pushes his way on things he's hellbent about. Then Willie D. WTF? Terrible coach and main accolade was just coming off as Team Canada silver medal coach? I think this was a Luc thing. Matters not, so much, as Wille D's futlity, led to a higher pick....then Bergeron? Is that Luc or Blake, making that happen? Um...Luc, perhaps? Why? Then, PLD. And has E Duhashek (sp) who's been around like 50 years...claims it's a Luc / Brisson thing. I am not giving Blake a free pass...but if only one goes, it's gotta be Luc. I'm okay with both going. There must be autonomy and the GM must make the final calls and not have a President making player personnel final calls. Can you imagine Lombardi working under Luc? No way in hell.

I think Blake is not thee worst and has made some good deals and calls....recall he is the one that saw Brayden McNabb, when he was ast Gm and said he identified him as the best D in the AHL...good on him. Got Moore. Arvidsson. Danault signing a little risky with 5.5 for 5....esp never having scored over 13 goals. Phil has been great. I guess 2 broken index fingers shows why he was not optimum and that key line, Danault Arvy, Moore was not as expected..."my finger felt like it dislocated on the ice a few times" well...shttt. But what are Moore's, Arvy's, Filala's excuses? We know PLD's excuse, is he will be better next year...and back to Blake, Yannetti said he was 50-50 on 2 players in 2020 draft...and presented that to Blake and he said Blake told him the direection and who the player was...QB. I am glad he chose QB over Stutzle...now can see QB take Kopi's slot. No problem....the Fiala deal....if Kevin was more sure fire every night, would help. Maybe he needs his personal trainer? in LA? Geez. Gavy-Korpisalo....liked it and they made a big impact....Korp didn't give up more than 2 goals for like 3 weeks? Gavy was nails with Roy the rest of the season. Not the worst deal...IF, the Kings had a decent PK last year and this year. Not sure why Gavy AND Roy were a little off this year....others: Iafallo signing...Walker signing. Cal was a good signing - THE college free agent signing...not the second contract!...and he did good...but, should have never gotten that 5+ million deal. Sure, some bad things for sure....but there have been a lot of good moves. Turcotte #5? Maybe Blake trusted Granato a little much? However, Turc was nails USA Gold Medal WJC and if he does not get concussed 2-3 times? Maybe he;s #3 center...and possibly good enough by last year and PLD does not happen! Shttt happens out of any GMs control. You heard Yannetti in that Kings video at the draft table say to Blake "So, Byram's gone...so it's Turcotte?" Blake looked not so thrilled and said yes. They wanted Byram....sucks Kings were #2 seed and got kicked back to #5!!! Shttt happens. I am sure I'll be called a Blake lover and I am not...I don't hate him, though. I hate Luc and hope he's gone.

A fair balanced assessment and whilst I don’t agree with it blow by blow, most of it I do.

Like you I think Luc is by far the bigger problem and I’m certain he ended the rebuild because his role is to set strategic direction.

I do think people wrongly point at WDJ as being a problem, or bad choice but I think that is the moment the strategy was changed. He sucked and was meant to, he was the tank commander. Of course they said they were doing their best…. Etc, but every team that tanks does just that.

 

[Statto]

Sure.

He could.

If only there were some other defenseman in club history that was signed to a two year deal that didn't waive his no trade clause in the second season only to depart as a free agent once the second year of the contract was done.

If only........ there was.............

Btw, I wasn’t advocating they should move him or that he should waive. I do think it’s ‘possible’ he would if it were to a certain contender as apart from anything else it’d help his next contract negotiation if he moves the needle for someone. I think it’d definitely be a possibility if we weren’t in the PO race at the TDL, although I presume the plan is to be in the thick of if.

 

[KingsHockey24]

If you can buyout PLD for 1/3, and you don't qualify Lizotte/Grundstrom, you've got:

18.5M in cap space with these holes left to fill:

Fiala-Byfield-Kempe
xxxxx-Kopitar-Kaliyev
Moore-Danault-Lafreniere
Turcotte-Thomas-xxxxx
xxxxx

Anderson-Doughty
Gavrikov-Clarke
xxxxx-Spence
Englund

xxxxx
Portillo

That number is fake news.

Gotta resign Byfield so I wouldn't be penciling him in a line-up.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

If they’re not firing Blake they’re not buying out PLD. Simple as that.

Team is f***ed for another seven years at the minimum.

 

[johnjm22]

That number is fake news.

Gotta resign Byfield so I wouldn't be penciling him in a line-up.

Byfield on a bridge deal is factored into that.

That’s also factoring in the new deals for Spence, Thomas, Turcotte, Portillo and Kaliyev.

Overages and retention as well.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Whilst I agree with most of this, the original contract dispute was triggered by the team low-balling him (context that regularly gets missed on the subject).

I’ve threatened to walk from jobs in the past on that basis (then got paid), so I absolutely understand why he did what he did. The team didn’t value him so he reacted emotionally… I’m not saying he did the right thing, but I get it.


Agreed.

BTW. I do want him gone, I just like to see balanced points. It’s a thing…

I don't agree that he was low balled. I think there was fault with the Kings (specifically Tim L.) where they didn't treat him with enough respect early in the negotiations and let them drag on for what turned out to be an insignificant dollar difference. Because what he signed in Colorado for was close to the Kings number. And possibly less based on some reporting.

First, he was 31 years old that season in 2001-2002. And he was asking for what 26 year old Chris Pronger got from St. Louis. Pronger was also coming off a season where he won both the Norris and the Hart trophies. One other difference was St. Louis could match any free agent offers Pronger got, while Blake was free to test the market.

And Blake was public about his intention to test the market (see Helene's article from back in the day).

It was also reported that Blake turned down a 5 year $40M contract from the Kings because at $8M per year, it wasn't close enough to the $9.5M per year Pronger got over a 3 year, $29.5M deal. I think this gets lost in the story, that Blake was actually going to receive $10.5M than Pronger was in terms of contract dollars. The whole fixation was on a $1.5M yearly difference.

Again, there was reporting that Blake turned down more than $40M with the Kings making a $9.2M per year offer, which was turned down because Blake wanted $100K more year than Pronger per year, but still on a 5 year deal.

So, he gets traded he gets traded for Deadmarsh, Miller, Jared Aulin, and two 1st round picks (Brian Boyle & David Steckel). All ok to good players, but none close to the level of player Blake was at. It was a true quantity over quality situation, which was a major reason Dave Taylor was described as a dumpster diver. I think the root cause was Blake's public insistence on testing the market, and killing his trade value.

After Colorado wins the cup, Blake does not test the market and does not get a $9.5M per year deal. He re-signs with Colorado (along with Sakic & Roy) July 2nd for a $45M, 5 year deal, $9M per year average. So $5M more than the Kings reportedly offered or $1M less than other reports.

So in summary...

1. The Kings operated like a broke team and a bunch of cheap skates
2. Rob Blake's public comments hurt his trade value
3. Rob Blake didn't test free agency
4. Rob Blake signed for pretty close to what the Kings offered, or perhaps even less

 

[chris kontos]

if it was my money id be worried about all this. as it is not i'll enjoy watching the predictable results of the current management. look forward to the amusement.

 

[King'sPawn]

Agreed.

BTW. I do want him gone, I just like to see balanced points. It’s a thing…

Totally get it. I prefer to base decisions and opinions on fair and realistic points.

Like, I'm not a fan of giving PLD another season. People have pointed out he gets better hiscsecond season with each team. It's a fair point to consider, whether or not you agree with it being worth a chance.

I don't. The preponderance of evidence suggests that, even when he does improve, he hasn't shown more to be a 60ish point center. For $8.5 million? No way.

Even though I hoped this would have been Kopitar's last season, he's the better option with more offense, defense, and intangibles at a lower price, despite being in a much older body.

With Blake, it feels like he's in the show 24. Everything that resembles a plan gets screwed up, there are compromised decisions, and even at the end of his rope, he says the one thing to keep him alive.

Except this whole ordeal is approaching 8 years instead of 24 hours, and the audience paying attention doesn't have expectations he's going to save the day like Jack Bauer.