TV: (HBO) Westworld Season 2

[Osprey]

Anyways, im confused about Teddy and the timelines.

How does Teddy end up in Host Heaven/his body in the flooded reservoir?

Am I forgetting something from a much earlier episode? We never see another Teddy other then the one which kills himselfs do we? We just see Teddy in heaven and his body floating

Just after "Hale" reveals herself to be Dolores, she pulls a control unit out of her pocket and says that she has "one last soul to carry to the new world." Later, we see a flashback to her taking it out of her pocket, with her narration saying "Some of the best of us were left behind," and it immediately cutting to Teddy standing in the fields of host Heaven, suggesting that that control unit was his.

As for Teddy's body, I think that Teddy must've killed himself down in the valley. Dolores took his control unit and left his body there, and, later, the flooding occurred and carried his body elsewhere. I think that the flooding also came and carried away all of the bodies that fell over the cliff when the hosts entered the host Heaven, if not, also, all of the bodies on the plateau (the ones that killed themselves, thanks to Clementine). That would easily account for all of the bodies floating in the lake at the start of the season.

Yes.

The Truth Behind Westworld’s Latest Robotic Reveal

Thanks for the link. That's a very interesting read. Amusingly, it sounds like Nolan decided to make Stubbs a host the night before they filmed that finale scene, so he wasn't meant to be a host during every other scene that he's been in, but that article makes some good points about how the revelation helps answer some questions about them, regardless.

 

[Osprey]

I get that Dolores/Hale built a new Dolores body for herself at the safehouse, but they were standing next to each other at the end...who's in the Hale body now I wonder.

That's a good point. You'd imagine that it'd be a female host (for no reason other than keeping things simple for the viewers), so perhaps it's Maeve. That would also be convenient, since Maeve and Hale share skin tone and hair color (again, for the sake of helping viewers follow who's who) and the new Hale even wears her hair down like Maeve, not tied up like Hale. There's a scene where Hale is at the heaven/massacre scene where Maeve's body is, so, if that was really Dolores, that was her opportunity to collect whichever control units that she wanted.

I counted five control units in Dolores/Hale's bag. We know that one is Bernard. If another is Maeve, then that leaves three more. I suppose that, if she collected Maeve's, she could've collected Hector's and even Armistice's at the same time. I'm not sure that she would collect Clementine's, since it holds a virus, but maybe she doesn't know about that or thinks that it might be useful. Maybe another is her dad, Abernathy, since we never saw him in the host heaven, and also because his contains the encryption key (and, maybe, other secrets). By my count, that's only six possibilities for the five control units. Who knows, though. There could be a surprise in there.

 

[EverettMike]

WESTWORLD Season 2’s Final Scene Might Be How the Series Ends | Nerdist

My thoughts on what the post-credits scene means.

 

[Jack Straw]

Thanks for the link. That's a very interesting read. Amusingly, it sounds like Nolan decided to make Stubbs a host the night before they filmed that finale scene, so he wasn't meant to be a host during every other scene that he's been in, but that article makes some good points about how the revelation helps answer some questions about them, regardless.

I don’t know that that necessarily means that Stubbs wasn’t intended to be a host all along. I don’t think you can necessarily assume that the director of any given episode knows the full story of all the characters. Even the writers might not know. The only people that I think would probably know are the showrunners, Abrams and Nolan.

 

[TheAngryHank]

She was shot in the eye, not the skull.

Which is conveniently located in the skull.

 

[Osprey]

I don’t know that that necessarily means that Stubbs wasn’t intended to be a host all along. I don’t think you can necessarily assume that the director of any given episode knows the full story of all the characters. Even the writers might not know. The only people that I think would probably know are the showrunners, Abrams and Nolan.

I didn't assume that the director knew anything. I spoke of the writer of the episode and the series co-creator, Jonah Nolan, that the article says is the one who had the "light bulb" moment to change the scene at the last moment. The writer changed the scene, not the director, and you just said that even the writers might not know the full story of characters.

You're technically correct that deciding to put that reveal in at the last moment doesn't necessarily mean that Stubbs wasn't intended to be a host all along... but, if the writers intended for him to be a host all along and they didn't intend on revealing it in the finale, when were they going to? Next season will take place outside of the park, so the park head of security might not even be in it. Also, there's little point in him being a secret host created by Ford if not for that very moment when a host was finally ready to leave the park and needed to get past security. If Stubbs were not revealed to be a host at that critical moment, but better moment would there be in the future? It just stands to reason to me that, if they didn't intend to reveal him as a host before the series shifts away from the park and to the real world, they likely didn't intend for him to be a host.

 

[Blender]

I get that Dolores/Hale built a new Dolores body for herself at the safehouse, but they were standing next to each other at the end...who's in the Hale body now I wonder.

That's a good point. You'd imagine that it'd be a female host (for no reason other than keeping things simple for the viewers), so perhaps it's Maeve. That would also be convenient, since Maeve and Hale share skin tone and hair color (again, for the sake of helping viewers follow who's who) and the new Hale even wears her hair down like Maeve, not tied up like Hale. There's a scene where Hale is at the heaven/massacre scene where Maeve's body is, so, if that was really Dolores, that was her opportunity to collect whichever control units that she wanted.

I counted five control units in Dolores/Hale's bag. We know that one is Bernard. If another is Maeve, then that leaves three more. I suppose that, if she collected Maeve's, she could've collected Hector's and even Armistice's at the same time. I'm not sure that she would collect Clementine's, since it holds a virus, but maybe she doesn't know about that or thinks that it might be useful. Maybe another is her dad, Abernathy, since we never saw him in the host heaven, and also because his contains the encryption key (and, maybe, other secrets). By my count, that's only six possibilities for the five control units. Who knows, though. There could be a surprise in there.

I would be really surprised if it were Maeve. Dolores and Maeve aren't allies, and Maeve was seen intact on the beach having recently been found near the end when Halores was leaving. Assuming her control unit wasn't destroyed in the blast, my guess would be Angela. Angela was Dolores' right hand all season and is also familiar with the real world.

 

[Osprey]

I would be really surprised if it were Maeve. Dolores and Maeve aren't allies, and Maeve was seen intact on the beach having recently been found near the end when Halores was leaving. Assuming her control unit wasn't destroyed in the blast, my guess would be Angela. Angela was Dolores' right hand all season and is also familiar with the real world.

I ruled out Angela because the blast would've either destroyed her control unit, sent it flying or buried it under rubble. It wouldn't be very plausible for Dolores to recover it, IMO.

I know that Maeve and Dolores weren't allies, but consider that Dolores saved Bernard even though she recognized that he would try to stop her and might even end up killing her. Compared to that, Maeve could be considered more on her side, especially after saving her daughter. She's also the most aware host after herself and Bernard, and the most intelligent, so she would be useful in the fight against humans. Besides, there aren't any better possibilities for who the five control units belong to. Maeve almost has to be one of them, IMO.

As for Maeve's body being intact, I believe that her face was shown, but not the back or top of her head, where there could've been a hole, for all that we know. Alternately, Dolores/Hale could've gone back to Maeve's body and recovered the control unit later on. After all, we don't see her between the point that she's in the Forge and when she's on the beach, with five in her bag, so she had to have done some traveling and collecting in between those two scenes.

 

[sigma six]

I ruled out Angela because the blast would've either destroyed her control unit, sent it flying or buried it under rubble. It wouldn't be very plausible for Dolores to recover it, IMO.

I know that Maeve and Dolores weren't allies, but consider that Dolores saved Bernard even though she recognized that he would try to stop her and might even end up killing her. Compared to that, Maeve could be considered more on her side, especially after saving her daughter. She's also the most aware host after herself and Bernard, and the most intelligent, so she would be useful in the fight against humans. Besides, there aren't any better possibilities for who the five control units belong to. Maeve almost has to be one of them, IMO.

As for Maeve's body being intact, I believe that her face was shown, but not the back or top of her head, where there could've been a hole, for all that we know. Alternately, Dolores/Hale could've gone back to Maeve's body and recovered the control unit later on and before saying goodbye to Stubbs.

Very possible that she's one of those modules Dol made off with, but I feel like the mind now in Hale's body is more the silent partner type.
If it were Maeve she would have said something to Bernard as they left him in the safehouse, I think.

 

[Osprey]

Very possible that she's one of those modules Dol made off with, but I feel like the mind now in Hale's body is more the silent partner type.
If it were Maeve she would have said something to Bernard as they left him in the safehouse, I think.

I don't think that Maeve and Bernard were that close. Maeve was Ford's pet, while Dolores was Bernard's. Also, Hale and Bernard were separated by glass that might even have had soundproofing properties, so I don't think that it's odd that she said nothing to him. Besides, they're not human, so there's no social obligation to greet acquaintances. If it seemed awkward, I think that it's just because that's how hosts can be, especially with each other. I, personally, wouldn't read much into it. I think that the writers just wanted to show her and Dolores in the same shot so that we know to expect them both next season (and so that Tessa Thompson fans didn't get upset, thinking that she'll be gone from the show, now that Dolores has returned to her old body).

 

[Jack Straw]

I didn't assume that the director knew anything. I spoke of the writer of the episode and the series co-creator, Jonah Nolan, that the article says is the one who had the "light bulb" moment to change the scene at the last moment. The writer changed the scene, not the director, and you just said that even the writers might not know the full story of characters.

You're technically correct that deciding to put that reveal in at the last moment doesn't necessarily mean that Stubbs wasn't intended to be a host all along... but, if the writers intended for him to be a host all along and they didn't intend on revealing it the finale, when were they going to? Next season will take place outside of the park, so the park head of security might not even be in it. Also, there's little point in him being a secret host created by Ford if not for that very moment when a host was finally ready to leave the park and needed to get past security. If Stubbs were not revealed to be a host at that critical moment, but better moment would there be in the future? It just stands to reason to me that, if they didn't intend to reveal him as a host before the series shifts away from the park and to the real world, they likely didn't intend for him to be a host.

Just to be clear- I do believe Stubbs is a host and I started thinking that during the conversation with Charlotte/Delores. Otoh, they didn’t come out and positively identify him as a host so I suppose someone could argue there’s room for doubt. As for whether or not he would be in the show next year, that’s up to the executive producers. If they want him in the show he’s in the show. If they don’t want him back next year and they want to leave the audience hanging, they can certainly do that. But that scene was enough to convince me.

 

[Kane One]

So I waited until Season 2 to finish to watch the Season 2 spoiler the creators released before the season started.

I can't believe it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

My guess is Dolores stuck one of those control units she smuggled out in the Hale bot.

Who that is will just have to wait until season 3

 

[Emperoreddy]

Too many posts to quote, so just going to add a few comments here:

- The guest data wasn't deleted. Dolores reprogrammed the satellites to send it somewhere else, and in her final scene makes reference to having access to it (reading the guest books). She had her mind changed by Arnold.

- I don't think either the William we have seen or the Emily that he killed in the main time were hosts. At the end we are literally seeing William being trapped in a "prison of his own sins". Having to continuously be reset to murder his daughter over and over. The Forge in that scene has been decaying for a very long time but Emily hasn't aged, so she'she's also a host.

The guest data was deleted. Bernard said as much. Dolores beamed “Sublime” away.

The only surviving guest data is what Dolores remembers.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You have to remember that hosts are a purely digital species. They have no need for an analog world.

The one thing that makes the host alive is the control unit. The rest is just packaging. Of course they identify with that body, but it isn’t essential to who they are.

 

[Em etah Eh]

WESTWORLD Season 2’s Final Scene Might Be How the Series Ends | Nerdist

My thoughts on what the post-credits scene means.

That makes sense. Since he's not in "a thing", and he is a host in WestWorld, somebody has to be recreating the other hosts every time he starts his loop. So does Delores have a bunch of those creepy worker hosts rebuilding everything, each time the loop ends? Somebody has to be spending a lot of time and resources to recreate that hell for him. Who else would it be?

 

[Osprey]

It feels strange that the season is over. Maybe that's because it wasn't as satisfying as Season 1 and I'm still waiting for it to be... or maybe it was satisfying and I just didn't want it to end. I can't decide. It's hard to judge it. If you compare it to Season 1, it's a little disappointing, but that could be largely because it wasn't a new experience this time and we knew much of what to expect. If it had been Season 1, we might've been blown away by it, like we were by the real Season 1. It would've been nice to have been blown away again, but that probably wasn't realistic. It was still very high quality television, which is all that we could ask for.

 

[Peasy]

So I waited until Season 2 to finish to watch the Season 2 spoiler the creators released before the season started.

I can't believe it.

Link?

 

[Kane One]

Link?

 

[Kane One]

It feels strange that the season is over. Maybe that's because it wasn't as satisfying as Season 1 and I'm still waiting for it to be... or maybe it was satisfying and I just didn't want it to end. I can't decide. It's hard to judge it. If you compare it to Season 1, it's a little disappointing, but that could be largely because it wasn't a new experience this time and we knew much of what to expect. If it had been Season 1, we might've been blown away by it, like we were by the real Season 1. It would've been nice to have been blown away again, but that probably wasn't realistic. It was still very high quality television, which is all that we could ask for.

Not sure how anyone could think this season wasn’t as satisfying as the last. This is so far the only show I’ve watched where every single episode in the series is just about perfect.

 

[XX]

Not sure how anyone could think this season wasn’t as satisfying as the last. This is so far the only show I’ve watched where every single episode in the series is just about perfect.

Not sure how anyone can be so in love with mediocrity and so unaware of the very valid criticisms lobbed at this season.

Only episodes 4 and 8 really tapped the potential of what this show can be.

The rest were schlock where they indulged in some of the worst habits HBO shows tend to have. The finale was not satisfying. The fort assault was a f***ing joke. Dolores isn't likable in the slightest and neither is Hale (because Tessa Thompson is a one note actor). Ford was turned into a cartoon villain. The writers have no clear plan, they literally admitted to writing the Stubbs host reveal the night before shooting. Outside of a couple brilliant episodes, the money spent on this show is being wasted on little return.

The best episode of the season was a bottle episode (Kiksuya) where they were forced to tell a compelling, mostly single-threaded story.

 

[Osprey]

Not sure how anyone could think this season wasn’t as satisfying as the last. This is so far the only show I’ve watched where every single episode in the series is just about perfect.

One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other. You can have a season of perfect episodes that still isn't as satisfying simply because it's impossible to experience the show for the first time again. There was less chance of Season 2 blowing us away like Season 1 did because we went into it with higher expectations, and some people will, naturally, not be as satisfied, while others will be, regardless. Satisfaction often has less to do with evaluation than it does with surpassing expectation.

 

[EverettMike]

And my other piece explaining some of my biggest issues.

How WESTWORLD Can Fix Its Biggest Problem for Season 3 | Nerdist

 

[Blender]

Not sure how anyone can be so in love with mediocrity and so unaware of the very valid criticisms lobbed at this season.

Only episodes 4 and 8 really tapped the potential of what this show can be.

The rest were schlock where they indulged in some of the worst habits HBO shows tend to have. The finale was not satisfying. The fort assault was a ****ing joke. Dolores isn't likable in the slightest and neither is Hale (because Tessa Thompson is a one note actor). Ford was turned into a cartoon villain. The writers have no clear plan, they literally admitted to writing the Stubbs host reveal the night before shooting. Outside of a couple brilliant episodes, the money spent on this show is being wasted on little return.

The best episode of the season was a bottle episode (Kiksuya) where they were forced to tell a compelling, mostly single-threaded story.

Dolores wasn't supposed to be likable this season, Hale has never been likeable and isn't supposed to be. Ford wasn't a villain.

 

[Peasy]

Jokes lol. Interesting that they paid so close attention to Reddit when the first season was airing. I guess they werent happy about them basically figuring everything out by episode 3.