Recalled/Assigned: Hayton assigned to Tucson

[Vinny Boombatz]

The game was too fast for him...he needs to improve his skating (explosiveness & overall speed), and hopefully with that his legs will catch up with his brain. I just wish we could have a player that just excels out of the gate. Someone, say like Seth 'fricken' Jarvis (13th overall 2020) who is leading the AHL in pts. Who looks amazing btw, speed, agility, etc...the kid has got it all.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I just wish we could have a player that just excels out of the gate. Someone, say like Seth 'fricken' Jarvis (13th overall 2020) who is leading the AHL in pts. Who looks amazing btw, speed, agility, etc...the kid has got it all.

We need to do a better job drafting, then.

I'm gonna be "that guy" and venture to say that Hayton was not drafted because he's gonna put up a mountain of points. I think Chayka liked his intelligence and his hockey sense, and the fact that he plays a complete game. Maybe Puck Farkus thought that with Keller on the wing sniping, Hayton could be the strong two-way anchor to ground him. Obviously he was thinking way ahead and assuming that the players he drafted would do what he and his spreadsheets predicted they would.

I've seen enough of Hayton to believe that he'll figure out a role - if it's not Joe Thornton, then at least he'll be a Bob Gainey. Whatever lessons he needs to learn, though, will have to be learned at the NHL level, because that's where he's falling short the most. You don't learn Mandarin in Mexico.

 

[MIGs Dog]

We need to do a better job drafting, then.

 

[Jamieh]

Maybe a really good place to start with isn't reaching in a draft at 5OA for a guy you hope to be a 2nd line center and not a point producer.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Maybe a really good place to start with isn't reaching in a draft at 5OA for a guy you hope to be a 2nd line center and not a point producer.

Might be.

Still can't get out of my mind when those of us in the draft chat heard Hayton's name, and most of us went, "Who????"

 

[zerekstar]

We need to do a better job drafting, then.

I'm gonna be "that guy" and venture to say that Hayton was not drafted because he's gonna put up a mountain of points. I think Chayka liked his intelligence and his hockey sense, and the fact that he plays a complete game. Maybe Puck Farkus thought that with Keller on the wing sniping, Hayton could be the strong two-way anchor to ground him. Obviously he was thinking way ahead and assuming that the players he drafted would do what he and his spreadsheets predicted they would.

I've seen enough of Hayton to believe that he'll figure out a role - if it's not Joe Thornton, then at least he'll be a Bob Gainey. Whatever lessons he needs to learn, though, will have to be learned at the NHL level, because that's where he's falling short the most. You don't learn Mandarin in Mexico.

That is pretty much what we had with Strome so it seems weird to trade him away and draft another of the same.

 

[Jamieh]

Might be.

Still can't get out of my mind when those of us in the draft chat heard Hayton's name, and most of us went, "Who????"

I wrote for a couple years tgat I didn't know if Chayka was a genius or would bury the Franchise. Can't recall any other GM that went against the grain at every turn?? Seemed to draft for safety rather than success, sorta moneyballish. Now looking less genius.

 

[Jagged Ice]

BPA was Zadina. Should we have drafted him? I would have made that mistake on a winger. Hindsight is 20/20. Quinn Hughes was my other choice if Tkachuk wasn't available and I remember a lot of people didn't want us to take Brady. Hughes was probably a better pick over #1 Dahlin.
Three years prior more GM's had Strome over Marner. A big, high IQ center who notched a ton of points over a winger with small size sounded pretty obvious.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That is pretty much what we had with Strome so it seems weird to trade him away and draft another of the same.

Yeah, well... I kinda have it in the back of my mind that Chayka might have thought, "I have a Strome-Plus in Hayton, so now I can get rid of this Strome and get this Schmaltz guy I've man-crushed over for a while to boot."

 

[Jamieh]

BPA was Zadina. Should we have drafted him? I would have made that mistake on a winger. Hindsight is 20/20. Quinn Hughes was my other choice if Tkachuk wasn't available and I remember a lot of people didn't want us to take Brady. Hughes was probably a better pick over #1 Dahlin.
The year prior more GM's had Strome over Marner. A big, high IQ center who notched a ton of points over a winger with small size sounded pretty obvious.

If I was a GM and in the first round I was not confident I could draft a 1st line player i would be trading that pick for more swings in the 2nd round.

 

[moosemeister]

To be fair I was probably the only one who didn’t want Brady and now I look like a jackass for it. Gonna switch teams, forums and change my identity for those dumbass comments. Haha

 

[The Feckless Puck]

To be fair I was probably the only one who didn’t want Brady and now I look like a jackass for it. Gonna switch teams, forums and change my identity for those dumbass comments. Haha

I didn't want Brady either, but that was because I was ignorant of his stats and thought that the Mutts would be drafting for name (and because of his brother). So I was a jackass too (although I'm a jackass basically at all times so it probably didn't gnaw at me as much as it did you ).

 

[PuckLife]

Maybe a really good place to start with isn't reaching in a draft at 5OA for a guy you hope to be a 2nd line center and not a point producer.

Or maybe it’s not jerking around your 5 OA for a season and a half.

 

[Heldig]

Hayton does need to get faster. I'm sure in 2 years when his quickness improves, his legs will have caught up with his brain and I think he'll be a 50-60pt player by then. The problem is that I don't see a PPG player.

Knock on him from day 1 was offensive upside. Guaranteed 3C with 2C upside but likely not a 1C. He wont score enough.

 

[moosemeister]

Knock on him from day 1 was offensive upside. Guaranteed 3C with 2C upside but likely not a 1C. He wont score enough.

We already have that in Dvorak. I've always said Dvo was going to be Elite 3C, great 2C kind of player. But I guess if Hayton tops out as a 3c it's not the end of the world.

Matthews
Dvo
Hayton
???

Still a solid center group. haha

 

[rt]

We need to do a better job drafting, then.

I'm gonna be "that guy" and venture to say that Hayton was not drafted because he's gonna put up a mountain of points. I think Chayka liked his intelligence and his hockey sense, and the fact that he plays a complete game. Maybe Puck Farkus thought that with Keller on the wing sniping, Hayton could be the strong two-way anchor to ground him. Obviously he was thinking way ahead and assuming that the players he drafted would do what he and his spreadsheets predicted they would.

I've seen enough of Hayton to believe that he'll figure out a role - if it's not Joe Thornton, then at least he'll be a Bob Gainey. Whatever lessons he needs to learn, though, will have to be learned at the NHL level, because that's where he's falling short the most. You don't learn Mandarin in Mexico.

I don’t think that’s an apt analogy. The AHL is a development league for the NHL. Taking Manadarin classes in the US will help you speak mandarin in China. Getting dropped into China and told to learn the language or languish wouldn’t be as effective as developing the language at the appropriate level first.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

I was never a fan of Hayton's pick at the time, but I am much more of a fan now.

At 5, I wanted skills, highlight reels moves, edge of the seat stuff, everything that we have been yearning forever as Coyotes fans, particularly as we have been fed negative hockey for so many years (and still are, I am sorry to write). Tippett, Tocchet.. the death of fun, the death of ice hockey.

Hayton? Boy NO, Hayton is not this electric 5th pick I was getting myself deluded about.

So who is he?

I believe he is an intelligent player, one who is working out what he should or shouldn't try to do on the ice at the top level. One who, I think, will ultimately find a way of working out where he fits.

And then, when that part is done (and that is what my latest delusion might be living cosily), he will work out where everyone else fits around him because this young gentleman has proven to be a leader, one that has succeeded under massive pressure and expectation. The captain of Canada's world Junior team, a team that had not won that prestigious tournament for a while. Not to mention that he, playing injured, scored a key goal in the final game.

So I am optimistic about Hayton, because I have adapted my expectations (not downgraded them though), and because the shortcomings and mistakes shown this season with the Coyotes have also demonstrated that he is not really that far off the level required to play there full time.

Once this is done, and with a bit of maturing, I am hoping that his character, and leadership will be significant for the Coyotes.

This is where I am at.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I don’t think that’s an apt analogy. The AHL is a development league for the NHL. Taking Manadarin classes in the US will help you speak mandarin in China. Getting dropped into China and told to learn the language or languish wouldn’t be as effective as developing the language at the appropriate level first.

Well, if you want to continue the metaphor, it is far more effective to give someone four to six weeks of language basics and then drop them into a country to "learn or languish" than it is to teach them the language for a year in a classroom setting. I know, because I went through it, and so did my father when he was in the military.

The reasoning behind this is twofold - first, this practice is more effective to learn the idioms and distinct phrasing that allow you to communicate effectively in a particular culture. And second, the need to effectively communicate to survive is far more of a motivator than getting a grade.

Now, you can take a couple of years of Mandarin and, at the end, be able to crack jokes and be conversant with your classmates. But if you then went to China, you would find yourself having to unlearn bad habits and relearn how to speak beyond the basics. Too much context and nuance are beyond the scope of the classroom and textbook.

Yes, the AHL is a development league for the NHL. But its biggest assets in player development are getting players used to playing against men, and helping players who make it there from juniors or college to develop or change fundamental aspects of their game to suit playing against men, viz., Conor Garland learning to be a hard-working team player instead of being a total puck-hog and playing inside his own head. In my opinion, Hayton doesn't need either of those lessons. What he needs is to figure out NHL-speed decision making, and start adapting his good hockey sense and good habits to the environment that he wants to play in long-term.

Now, if you want to argue that high levels of ice time in the AHL are preferable to riding the pine in the NHL, then that's another story. I fully agree with that. But Hayton gains nothing from going to Tucson and putting up a bunch of points. Kyle Capobianco is doing that, and it's done diddly squat for his NHL readiness.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Yeah, don't get me started on Capobianco. I think he's got some type of phobia, he's allergic to the NHL I swear. The dude dominates at the AHL level, and as soon as he touches NHL ice, all I see is "derp".

Puzzles me to no end. We did mis-handle Hayton, he should have never been up last season, he should have spent another year in Juniors and he should have been in the AHL to start the season. But hey, we are where we are, we just need Hayton to put in the work I guess, and we all have to practice patience, although most of us our out of, especially with the pandemic.

 

[Jamieh]

Or maybe it’s not jerking around your 5 OA for a season and a half.

That's step 2

 

[Jakey53]

BPA was Zadina. Should we have drafted him? I would have made that mistake on a winger. Hindsight is 20/20. Quinn Hughes was my other choice if Tkachuk wasn't available and I remember a lot of people didn't want us to take Brady. Hughes was probably a better pick over #1 Dahlin.
Three years prior more GM's had Strome over Marner. A big, high IQ center who notched a ton of points over a winger with small size sounded pretty obvious.

Yup, you never know with kids.

 

[Jakey53]

If I was a GM and in the first round I was not confident I could draft a 1st line player i would be trading that pick for more swings in the 2nd round.

I would trade down, but still want a first round pick.

 

[Jamieh]

I would trade down, but still want a first round pick.

A later 1st plus a 2nd was my thinking.

 

[rt]

Well, if you want to continue the metaphor, it is far more effective to give someone four to six weeks of language basics and then drop them into a country to "learn or languish" than it is to teach them the language for a year in a classroom setting. I know, because I went through it, and so did my father when he was in the military.

The reasoning behind this is twofold - first, this practice is more effective to learn the idioms and distinct phrasing that allow you to communicate effectively in a particular culture. And second, the need to effectively communicate to survive is far more of a motivator than getting a grade.

Now, you can take a couple of years of Mandarin and, at the end, be able to crack jokes and be conversant with your classmates. But if you then went to China, you would find yourself having to unlearn bad habits and relearn how to speak beyond the basics. Too much context and nuance are beyond the scope of the classroom and textbook.

Yes, the AHL is a development league for the NHL. But its biggest assets in player development are getting players used to playing against men, and helping players who make it there from juniors or college to develop or change fundamental aspects of their game to suit playing against men, viz., Conor Garland learning to be a hard-working team player instead of being a total puck-hog and playing inside his own head. In my opinion, Hayton doesn't need either of those lessons. What he needs is to figure out NHL-speed decision making, and start adapting his good hockey sense and good habits to the environment that he wants to play in long-term.

Now, if you want to argue that high levels of ice time in the AHL are preferable to riding the pine in the NHL, then that's another story. I fully agree with that. But Hayton gains nothing from going to Tucson and putting up a bunch of points. Kyle Capobianco is doing that, and it's done diddly squat for his NHL readiness.

If he can’t be a top flight AHL player, he’s never going to amount to anything approaching the value of a top five pick.

 

[XX]

Yeah, don't get me started on Capobianco. I think he's got some type of phobia, he's allergic to the NHL I swear. The dude dominates at the AHL level, and as soon as he touches NHL ice, all I see is "derp".

The one game he had was probably the most scrambly they've played all year, constantly coughing up 2 on 1s that he hopelessly tried to defend. It wasn't anywhere near all of his fault. The difference between Capo and someone like Goligoski is that one has legs left and conceivably can have an NHL future if only someone just gives him a run of games.

"Here you go kid, twenty games, sink or swim. I'm not going to yank or scratch you if you give an honest effort. We believe in you."

not "lol the puck bounced over your stick on bad ice how unfortunate pack your shit you're done lil scared bitch"

The latter is why this organization can't develop talent and BA called it out directly.