Proposal: Hayes to the Flames

[Groo]

you could easily flip him for an additional pick

Um no. Do your own work and not try not to make it perfect on paper for oneside

 

[One Winged Angel]

I’d do....
Hayes + Zuc
For
2019 1st, Frolik, Lazar, Pospisil + Conditional 2020 1st(If either resigns)

That’s still awful. Frolik is a cap dump, Lazar is a bust and if you’re talking about Martin Pospisil, dude is playing in the USHL in his D+1 year at 19 years old.

Absolutely terrible.

 

[Lunatik]

Nevermind. I'm not arguing with this person anymore

 

[Sparky93]

That’s still awful. Frolik is a cap dump, Lazar is a bust and if you’re talking about Martin Pospisil, dude is playing in the USHL in his D+1 year at 19 years old.

Absolutely terrible.

Frolik is a cap casualty for us, but still a .5 PPG player. Lazar is a young, solid 4th line player, on most teams and being tied for 15th in USHL scoring, draft +1, isn’t the worst thing in the world.

 

[bernmeister]

Nevermind. I'm not arguing with this person anymore

I recall an episode of Star Trek where there is a quote to the effect that 'evil retreats when forcibly confronted by good'

somehow it seems that is possibly analogous here...

btw

While I may not be, rightly or wrongly,
One Winged Angel is a highly respected member on our board

 

[One Winged Angel]

Frolik is a cap casualty for us, but still a .5 PPG player. Lazar is a young, solid 4th line player, on most teams and being tied for 15th in USHL scoring, draft +1, isn’t the worst thing in the world.

He’s got 22 in points in 45 games and is making 4 million. He’s looking to be moved because he’s making far too much money.

The Rangers have Namestnikov, who is basically the same player but younger and whode numbers are slightly worse.

The Rangers have zero need for Frolik. Lazar is a bust. He provides nothing of value to the Rangers. We have players like him already.

What other players playing in the USHL in their D+1 years have gone on to be top-6 forwards in the NHL? I’d imagine the list is small. Pavelski is one that comes to mind, but who else? And let’s talk recently. Like the last 10 years.

It’s a terrible offer.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Nevermind. I'm not arguing with this person anymore

Typical.

Bashes other posters for wanting something of value, then proceeds to post awful proposal. All of this after throwing around personal attacks, calling people petulant teenagers and other things.

Then doesn’t have the desire to explain himself because there is no explanation for something that awful.

 

[Lunatik]

Typical.

Bashes other posters for wanting something of value, then proceeds to post awful proposal. All of this after throwing around personal attacks, calling people petulant teenagers and other things.

Then doesn’t have the desire to explain himself because there is no explanation for something that awful.

No, I deleted my post because I'm done bickering with someone I know I'll never come to an agreement with. Say whatever you want, the fact of the matter is I don't care about nor respect anything you say.

 

[One Winged Angel]

No, I deleted my post because I'm done bickering with someone I know I'll never come to an agreement with. Say whatever you want, the fact of the matter is I don't care about nor respect anything you say.

No, you deleted your post because you’re so full of yourself that you thought you were smarter than everyone else on here and let your superiority complex consume you to the point where you thought some garbage proposal would work for TWO top-6 players, after bashing other posters for wanting something of value.

Then when you got called out on your bullshit, you whined and cried and took your hockey puck home because you couldn’t take it. I’d love to see you pull this crap with someone in real life.

I couldn’t care less if you care about or respect anything I say because you know you’re wrong and you know that you don’t have a leg to stand on in this argument and watching you throw your temper tantrums in accordance just proves me right. You’ve really outdone yourself this time.

Duchene went for 2 prospects FAR BETTER than Spencer Foo, a 1st rounder and a conditional 1st. EVEN IF Hayes and Zuccarello couldn’t get a better deal than that, that is still without ANY QUESTION better than the garbage offer you posted.

 

[Sparky93]

He’s got 22 in points in 45 games and is making 4 million. He’s looking to be moved because he’s making far too much money.

The Rangers have Namestnikov, who is basically the same player but younger and whode numbers are slightly worse.

The Rangers have zero need for Frolik. Lazar is a bust. He provides nothing of value to the Rangers. We have players like him already.

What other players playing in the USHL in their D+1 years have gone on to be top-6 forwards in the NHL? I’d imagine the list is small. Pavelski is one that comes to mind, but who else? And let’s talk recently. Like the last 10 years.

It’s a terrible offer.

Fair enough but the reality is that very few prospects that are added to high picks, to acquire rentals, ever reach legitimate top 6 status. Pospisil has a very unique skill set and is producing at a pretty decent rate.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Fair enough but the reality is that very few prospects that are added to high picks, to acquire rentals, ever reach legitimate top 6 status. Pospisil has a very unique skill set and is producing at a pretty decent rate.

I don’t know where you’re getting those numbers from, but that’s not exactly accurate.

You do realize that the USHL is a clear step below the CHL and NCAA, right? That’s why the vast majority of players who get drafted out of the USHL end up playing in either the CHL or the NCAA before they get to their respective NHL clubs.

The fact that Pospisil is still playing in a 2nd rate junior program at 19 years old in his D+1 year should be a red flag to you, even if he is a point per game player there.

 

[Lunatik]

No, you deleted your post because you’re so full of yourself that you thought you were smarter than everyone else on here and let your superiority complex consume you to the point where you thought some garbage proposal would work for TWO top-6 players, after bashing other posters for wanting something of value.

Then when you got called out on your bull****, you whined and cried and took your hockey puck home because you couldn’t take it. I’d love to see you pull this crap with someone in real life.

I couldn’t care less if you care about or respect anything I say because you know you’re wrong and you know that you don’t have a leg to stand on in this argument and watching you throw your temper tantrums in accordance just proves me right. You’ve really outdone yourself this time.

Duchene went for 2 prospects FAR BETTER than Spencer Foo, a 1st rounder and a conditional 1st. EVEN IF Hayes and Zuccarello couldn’t get a better deal than that, that is still without ANY QUESTION better than the garbage offer you posted.

Yes, continue attacking a person when they say they are finished with a conversation. I hope it makes you feel like a big man.

 

[Sparky93]

I don’t know where you’re getting those numbers from, but that’s not exactly accurate.

You do realize that the USHL is a clear step below the CHL and NCAA, right? That’s why the vast majority of players who get drafted out of the USHL end up playing in either the CHL or the NCAA before they get to their respective NHL clubs.

The fact that Pospisil is still playing in a 2nd rate junior program at 19 years old in his D+1 year should be a red flag to you, even if he is a point per game player there.

Ya, I don’t think a college program and Pospisil would agree with each other very long lol.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Christ. Let's dial it down a couple notches. What you post on here has absolutely no bearing on the market values nor the real life returns of Kevin Hayes or Mats Zuccarello. This forum is for arbitrary hen clucking at best and mental masturbation and internet dick measuring at worst. Please don't take it any more seriously than what is required.

Hayes and Zuccarello together as a package would be interesting. Duchene has almost as many career points as them combined so don't act like his trade really sets the market for anything. I don't know if the Flames really have a need for both. Frolik would have to go the other way.

1st 2019
Czarnik(cheap young roster player, very good AHL numbers, somewhat underwhelming NHL stats so far) 1 year left
Frolik(cap, but not a cap dump, still useful and his work ethic rubs off on young players) 1 year left
MEP (promising college player outproducing several 1st and 2nd round picks in the NCAA)
Flames 3rd round pick 2020

for

Kevin Hayes
Mats Zuccarello
NYR 4th round pick 2020

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yes, continue attacking a person when they say they are finished with a conversation. I hope it makes you feel like a big man.

You mean like you have in other threads, referencing me indirectly without quoting me?

Don’t throw stones in glass houses.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Christ. Let's dial it down a couple notches. What you post on here has absolutely no bearing on the market values nor the real life returns of Kevin Hayes or Mats Zuccarello. This forum is for arbitrary hen clucking at best and mental *********ion and internet dick measuring at worst. Please don't take it any more seriously than what is required.

Hayes and Zuccarello together as a package would be interesting. Duchene has almost as many career points as them combined so don't act like his trade really sets the market for anything. I don't know if the Flames really have a need for both. Frolik would have to go the other way.

1st 2019
Czarnik(cheap young roster player, very good AHL numbers, somewhat underwhelming NHL stats so far) 1 year left
Frolik(cap, but not a cap dump, still useful and his work ethic rubs off on young players) 1 year left
MEP (promising college player outproducing several 1st and 2nd round picks in the NCAA)
Flames 3rd round pick 2020

for

Kevin Hayes
Mats Zuccarello
NYR 4th round pick 2020

Again, another quantity for quality proposal.

Come with something better.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Again, another quantity for quality proposal.

Come with something better.

Quantity is often the best you can hope for in a rebuild. I know people get attached to players that have played for their team and this causes them to over value what they'd return but the truth is that rentals rarely return any A pieces. Very rarely.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Remember when the Rangers were going to get one or two or all of Point, Sergachev and Foote for one year of McDonagh? And then they got none of them and gave up Miller to boot?

Or just yesterday when Sens fans thought they'd get back multiple blue chip pieces for Duchene because he so obviously going to do a sign and trade?

Those were fun times.

If at this stage you're still expecting blue chips for rentals, you will be hilariously disappointed.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

1st 2019
Czarnik(cheap young roster player, very good AHL numbers, somewhat underwhelming NHL stats so far) 1 year left
Frolik(cap, but not a cap dump, still useful and his work ethic rubs off on young players) 1 year left
MEP (promising college player outproducing several 1st and 2nd round picks in the NCAA)
Flames 3rd round pick 2020

for

Kevin Hayes
Mats Zuccarello
NYR 4th round pick 2020

Nope. Czarnik isn't 'young' he's a '92 born and the jury is on him. Minor League player or NHL call up at best.

Rangers could probably get a 1st and a comparable prospect to MEP in two separate deals for both Hayes and Zucc.

Rangers would pass on this deal pretty easily I would think.

Remember when the Rangers were going to get one or two or all of Point, Sergachev and Foote for one year of McDonagh? And then they got none of them and gave up Miller to boot?
.

Yeah, no one actually thought that...

1st, conditional 1st, Howden, Hajek, Namestnikov is a lot better than what is being offered ITT for Hayes and Zucc.

 

[Sparky93]

Nope. Czarnik isn't 'young' he's a '92 born and the jury is on him. Minor League player or NHL call up at best.

Rangers could probably get a 1st and a comparable prospect to MEP in two separate deals for both Hayes and Zucc.

Rangers would pass on this deal pretty easily I would think.



Yeah, no one actually thought that...

1st, conditional 1st, Howden, Hajek, Namestnikov is a lot better than what is being offered ITT for Hayes and Zucc.

Well, of course it was a much better return, McDonagh had a year remaining and Miller was a 24 year old, RFA, who had 40 points in 63 games, coming off a 56 point season the year prior. Even without the term and RFA status, it’s the more valuable package.

 

[eco's bones]

Calgary is not the only team the Rangers can deal with. With that said what the Rangers should expect if they sent both Hayes and Zucc the Flames way is their firsts in the next two drafts for starters--no ifs, ands, buts or conditions---which are likely to be late firsts so expect to add more. If we're taking on Frolik's salary that's another favor that the Flames should pay for as the Rangers have no real use for a player who has had his day and doesn't fit at all into our future. Guys banging around in the USHL or late rounders who you really don't care about are not great throw ins. The Rangers have prospects like that too. As for Pospisil--there's not a whole lot of difference between him and Riley Hughes in the BCHL. IMO--we're not really going to begin to have an idea if they have any value until they start playing college.

 

[crackdown44]

Yeah if the price for Zucc and Hayes is as reported (2nd + prospect, 1st + prospect) I could see a package of 1st + 2nd + A prospect or 2 B prospects being feasible

If that were the route Calgary goes I don’t think they would add an A prospect. Maybe something like 1st + 2nd + 2/3 of Philips, Mangiapane, MEP

I get why NYR doesn’t have a need for Frolik but people calling him a cap dump is misguided. He’s around .5PPG and plays an elite 2way game. I get why NYR doesn’t need him but he is the kind of player who could go back the other way to make the cap work. If Silfverberg just extended for 5.25 Fro is worth 4.3 easily

I guess NYR fans don’t see the point but you can easily retain on him and flip him for a 2nd-3rd next deadline depending on the market. He’s not Neal, there wouldn’t be an additional cost to Calgary to add him to the deal

 

[Rubi]

I just don't see the point in wasting picks and assets for a left hand shot center who currently makes $5M+ per year and is a UFA at the end of the season and will want more than he makes now. Calgary has an over abundance of left shot centers. Its not a hole the Flames need to fill.
I will be shocked to see Hayes in a Flames jersey on Feb 26.

 

[Shootertooter]

Christ. Let's dial it down a couple notches. What you post on here has absolutely no bearing on the market values nor the real life returns of Kevin Hayes or Mats Zuccarello. This forum is for arbitrary hen clucking at best and mental *********ion and internet dick measuring at worst. Please don't take it any more seriously than what is required.

Hayes and Zuccarello together as a package would be interesting. Duchene has almost as many career points as them combined so don't act like his trade really sets the market for anything. I don't know if the Flames really have a need for both. Frolik would have to go the other way.

1st 2019
Czarnik(cheap young roster player, very good AHL numbers, somewhat underwhelming NHL stats so far) 1 year left
Frolik(cap, but not a cap dump, still useful and his work ethic rubs off on young players) 1 year left
MEP (promising college player outproducing several 1st and 2nd round picks in the NCAA)
Flames 3rd round pick 2020

for

Kevin Hayes
Mats Zuccarello
NYR 4th round pick 2020

For me, this just seems like a mediocre return......like quantity not exactly the quality the Rangers should be looking for. I don't expect a true blue chip return but this is rather underwhelming.

 

[eco's bones]

Calgary might just want to settle for one of them to be honest. Both means you'll give up a lot in draft picks, prospects. It's not BOGO at the grocery store. As far as re-signing either of these guys--to me that should be completely up to Treliving and Calgary's owners/management. Hayes will get a 6 or 7 year deal on the market for $40 to 45 million anyway. He's 26 and he's getting better. His stats aren't first line but he does everything--plays in all situations. He's a really good player and if he wasn't willing to give the Rangers a discount or a break on term length I don't think he'll give anyone a discount. So if you're ownership and/or GM are kind of stingy--good luck but I'm pretty sure you're going to lose him. He is Matt Tkachuk's first cousin and a very close friend of Johnny Gaudreau who was a linemate at BC. As for Zucc he might head back to Manhattan next year depending on what the Rangers are willing to give him. From what I hear he wanted 5 years though and that's a lot for a 31 year old. He has been playing great lately though.