Proposal: Hayes to the Flames

[Bounces R Way]

Well if the 1st is on the table without conditions there could be a deal. Figuring they want to keep it this year.

The Flames would be reluctant to give it up because it would mean not picking in the first two rounds two years in a row. We don't have a 2019 2nd. On the other hand I'm not enamored at all with the 20-50 type talent in the draft this year so maybe they feel the same way.

 

[E-Train]

The Flames would be reluctant to give it up because it would mean not picking in the first two rounds two years in a row. We don't have a 2019 2nd. On the other hand I'm not enamored at all with the 20-50 type talent in the draft this year so maybe they feel the same way.

Right. That’s why I figured they want to hang on to the pick.

 

[Potty John]

I would love Hayes, the most I would do is our first and Gawdin.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I don’t see a fit with the Flames for Hayes. Not really for Zucc either. There’s no tier below the untouchables.

Even if there was a tier below the untouchables, they wouldn’t be added to a deal for either Zucc or Hayes along with a 1st.

Like a conditional 1st + a Gawdin level prospect is probably not a price NYR should complain about for a rental in this market

 

[E-Train]

Even if there was a tier below the untouchables, they wouldn’t be added to a deal for either Zucc or Hayes along with a 1st.

Like a conditional 1st + a Gawdin level prospect is probably not a price NYR should complain about for a rental in this market

While you may be right about Zucc, Hayes will get a 1st and a B+ prospect.

 

[Justin17]

Even if there was a tier below the untouchables, they wouldn’t be added to a deal for either Zucc or Hayes along with a 1st.

Like a conditional 1st + a Gawdin level prospect is probably not a price NYR should complain about for a rental in this market

For Zucc or Hayes?

 

[MonyontheMoney]

For Zucc or Hayes?

I’d say specifically that offer for Hayes. Zucc I think may have slightly lesser value due to age and position but I like them both and in any other year they’d be a pair of the more discussed names available

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

Even if there was a tier below the untouchables, they wouldn’t be added to a deal for either Zucc or Hayes along with a 1st.

Like a conditional 1st + a Gawdin level prospect is probably not a price NYR should complain about for a rental in this market

If that ends up being the best return, the Rangers should just re-sign Hayes.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

If that ends up being the best return, the Rangers should just re-sign Hayes.

I think that would make a lot of sense for them, given his age, he’s probably still a very useful piece for them when they’re looking to turn the corner again.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Teams can scout a player in the AHL. I don't think they call up guys in order to "showcase" them. But who knows.

To an extent I agree, but I don't think it hurts to see how a player compares to his peers at the NHL level compared to the AHL. Similar how scouts put a lot of emphasis on the World Juniors. How guys compare to the best vs stacked junior teams beating on weaker teams sorta thing.

That being said, Lazar hasn't drawn in yet so I don't really believe he's being showcased (yet).

 

[Ola]

From the Rangers POV, I much rather see a deal fetch us players and picks we believe in and then have us add to Hayes to even out the value.

But I think it all comes down to if Calgary somehow believe that they can manage to resign Kevin Hayes. A team acquiring a 26 y/o at the deadline as a rental of course will have an inside shot to resign the same player. Hence a team getting him with at least a plan that they seriously will consider resigning him should be able to pay a lot more than a team that just gets him as a rental.

Tkachuk of course has a serious pay-day coming. What will he get per, 7-8m? Got to imagine that a goalie + Tkachuk's new deal basically will leave Calgary with a 17 man strong roster and more or less no cap-space. I recon someone like Stone of Frolik could be moved to open up space, but that money will more or less go to filling out the roster. So maybe its time to drop this idea if like James Neal can't be moved? Say back to Pittsburgh with like 1.5m retained...

 

[FameFlame069]

To the poster on the first page of the thread, about both Hayes and Zucc(50%), I'd offer up one of Dube/Kylington + 2nd/1st in 20 + 3rd 19 + Stone(3.5M cap 1 more season) (pick based on Hayes resigning? Or 2nd round of playoffs?

 

[crackdown44]

To the poster on the first page of the thread, about both Hayes and Zucc(50%), I'd offer up one of Dube/Kylington + 2nd/1st in 20 + 3rd 19 + Stone(3.5M cap 1 more season) (pick based on Hayes resigning? Or 2nd round of playoffs?

Makes no sense to package them. They can get more selling them off individually

 

[Lunatik]

Hayes to Calgary for a young defenseman and a conditional 1st

Top prospects don't go for rentals very often, when they do it's for a player that is the elite of the elite (Hossa) or the prospect is trending downwards (Colborne, Esposito). So, to ask for a top prospect and a conditional first, is asinine and unrealistic, especially with the trade market being almost over-saturated with forwards.

 

[Shootertooter]

Top prospects don't go for rentals very often, when they do it's for a player that is the elite of the elite (Hossa) or the prospect is trending downwards (Colborne, Esposito). So, to ask for a top prospect and a conditional first, is asinine and unrealistic, especially with the trade market being almost over-saturated with forwards.

Is it unrealistic and asinine?
Hayes is likely worth at least a high end prospect and a conditional 1st upon re signing doesn't seem really crazy.
I think maybe one of those high end forwards is moved. I don't think Panarin will be moved for futures though.
For C's it is Duchene and Hayes. Whomever does not want to pay for Duchene or misses out, will make sure they get Hayes.

 

[BBKers]

Top prospects don't go for rentals very often, when they do it's for a player that is the elite of the elite (Hossa) or the prospect is trending downwards (Colborne, Esposito). So, to ask for a top prospect and a conditional first, is asinine and unrealistic, especially with the trade market being almost over-saturated with forwards.

I would strongly advise that you use a more sophisticated language than that.

 

[bl02]

To the poster on the first page of the thread, about both Hayes and Zucc(50%), I'd offer up one of Dube/Kylington + 2nd/1st in 20 + 3rd 19 + Stone(3.5M cap 1 more season) (pick based on Hayes resigning? Or 2nd round of playoffs?

wow so the Rangers are getting Dube (who I like) a first (possibly a second if the flames get knocked off in round 1) in 2020. Not sure if I'm understanding this part of the trade right??
and a 3rd. Stone doesn't do much for the Rangers unless they could flip him?
So for 50 percent retention on Zucc and Hayes for Dube, a second rounder, a third rounder and Mark Stone? Yikes.

 

[FameFlame069]

wow so the Rangers are getting Dube (who I like) a first (possibly a second if the flames get knocked off in round 1) in 2020. Not sure if I'm understanding this part of the trade right??
and a 3rd. Stone doesn't do much for the Rangers unless they could flip him?
So for 50 percent retention on Zucc and Hayes for Dube, a second rounder, a third rounder and Mark Stone? Yikes.

You honestly think with the depth forwards(with the duo) would give us 3 top 6 lines would get knocked out in the first round? We'd score 4+ goals a game

Hockey-Money-Lind
Chucky-Backlund-Zucc
Bennett-Hayes-Frolik

The only way you'd get top 5 prospect from any team in the league is if you packaged two players(maybe Kreids or Zibby could alone, but I don't see them being moved), you'd have to keep Stone until next deadline and I'm sure teams would offer a 3rd and a C prospect

I see this more as a Dube/Kylington (your preference on a C or D prospect), a late 1st(24-31) a 3rd(80-93) and Stone for cap purposes, if you want I'd do the 3rd/1st(19's) if Hayes resigns

 

[Johnnybegood13]

Haha

One thing though, Johnny was a center in college (between Hayes and Bill Arnold (right?)). Has he ever played center for Calgary?

LOL, I doubt Johnny has taken even one face-off in the NHL, At BC Arnold was the center and Hayes was the RW.

 

[FameFlame069]

LOL, I doubt Johnny has taken even one face-off in the NHL, At BC Arnold was the center and Hayes was the RW.

Well he has taken 2 Faceoffs this year 1 win and 1 loss

 

[bernmeister]

I think it would be smart if Gorton packaged both Hayes and Zucc to get some high quality assets, especially considering how the market is playing out this deadline.

1. good thread, OP, constructive discussion by open minds, even with disagreement, is always a +.

2. the above post

I don't see Flames going there 1:1 for Hayes who is not only a rental, but a good chance to return to NYR. Letting us pimp him out now and return that pays him but does not ream us = big goodwill chip he can turn in when he hangs up his skates.

There are teams that will do their likely late 1st for a pure rental Hayes.

However Zuc is another story, and with Ranger youth movement, may not be signed term/at all. His extending with a fitting suitor could make for a package that works enough to beat competing bids.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I wouldn't feel comfortable having any condition on a 1st in a trade for Hayes, unless the prospect coming back is a really good one (with Dube off the table - that means the latter won't be happening).

Just because the Rangers suck, doesn't mean they HAVE to trade Hayes. It's not like Nash last year, where they literally had no choice but to take the best deal (albeit it was a good one).

6'5, 50 point centers, who can also play a shutdown role and kill penalties don't grow on trees. If teams want to lowball the Rangers, by adding conditions to picks, it just doesn't make any sense to move him. He will undoubtedly resign here if they offer him something decent.

 

[Lunatik]

Is it unrealistic and asinine?

Let me say this again. Top prospects rarely get traded for deadline rentals. The last top prospects to be moved were Joe Col borne and Angelo Esposito and both were falling out of favor at that point in time.

Since then teams have started valuing their prospects more than ever before.

So, yes, it is absolutely unrealistic.

 

[Lunatik]

I would strongly advise that you use a more sophisticated language than that.

What is the point of this post?

 

[One Winged Angel]

Last night Bob stated that it looked like the price on Hayes was 1st and prospect, for what it’s worth.