Confirmed with Link: Hamonic traded to CGY

[PK Cronin]

PK...I think the problem is that you seem to be hanging your hat more than most on what *could* be the case, and seemingly putting more importance on that then wins and losses - Which is the bottom line on how all GMs should be judged. That was always my debate with you.

I don't believe for a second Tavares would leave if we hired a more competent GM - No matter his relationship with snow. If Tavares is going to leave it's because of everything we've been hearing - The chance to win, which, unlike a possible relationship, we can easily see that is an issue because of snow's failures.

It's like it finally took Tavares' potential departure to get snow to wake up and try to have a good offseason. Why did it come to this? I mean if snow is such a good friend to JT, why not surround him with better talent earlier? Because again the business of hockey comes first no matter how close you are with someone.

snow seemingly had a great relationship with Hamonic and wanted to help him with his family matters (the most important thing) and yet he wasn't going to let him go with out getting a fair deal and it took over a year.

If snow drafted better, traded better, and signed better, we would be much closer to the Cup and wouldn't be missing the playoffs 8 years into Tavares' career. If snow didn't fail as much as he did then the Isles would be better and they're wouldn't be talk about him leaving.

So again it doesn't matter about if snow/JT are friends. If snow did better as a GM then all problems would be solved.

Loyalty can go a long way in swaying someone, that's all I'm saying. Not interested in revisiting the debate.

I don't put more importance on what could be the case (that seems to be an issue with our debate, because sometimes you think I'm actively defending Snow and think he's a good GM when I'm just exploring possible scenarios in which it may make sense to keep him around), I just like to know or explore as much as I can about a particular situation to help me understand the decision making process. It'd also be nice to not be ridiculed for speculating, but it is what it is.

 

[PK Cronin]

He is also so loyal that it falls into cronyism. See Capuano, Jack about that one. His loyalty is a two edged sword - helps for some, hurts for others.

True, for sure. There is such a thing as being too loyal.

Really funny how the entire fanbase has fallen for this 'JT is gonna wait on Snow to show him he wants to build a winner' thing.

I believe Tavares will re-sign, but all reports are that he's willing to wait. Not sure what people are "falling" for here?

 

[Konk]

UFAs give a ****. That, I can assure you.

He is also so loyal that it falls into cronyism. See Capuano, Jack about that one. His loyalty is a two edged sword - helps for some, hurts for others.

JT won't if the team isn't going in the right direction, which was my point and the only player that matters in this discussion right now.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

JT won't if the team isn't going in the right direction, which was my point and the only player that matters in this discussion right now.

If you took any part of what I said as dissent from your point, then I didn't communicate well.

It is put up or go home time for Snow. Imo, he has two months to fix the ship. If he can't prove to Tavares he can get it done, I don't think anything he does after camp will matter. He has had minimum two seasons to fix things and he has failed to do so. All he accomplished was losing players. There is no way Tavares is happy about that.

 

[Konk]

If you took any part of what I said as dissent from your point, then I didn't communicate well.

It is put up or go home time for Snow. Imo, he has two months to fix the ship. If he can't prove to Tavares he can get it done, I don't think anything he does after camp will matter. He has had minimum two seasons to fix things and he has failed to do so. All he accomplished was losing players. There is no way Tavares is happy about that.

Gotcha, my bad.

 

[PK Cronin]

If you took any part of what I said as dissent from your point, then I didn't communicate well.

It is put up or go home time for Snow. Imo, he has two months to fix the ship. If he can't prove to Tavares he can get it done, I don't think anything he does after camp will matter. He has had minimum two seasons to fix things and he has failed to do so. All he accomplished was losing players. There is no way Tavares is happy about that.

I'm just hoping Garth can use his jedi mind trick on Tavares and get him to sign on July 1st.

 

[IslesNorway]

Can anyone explain the major advantage of not letting Vegas select Hamonic, and keeping the 15th pick + your 2018 2nd round pick. Vs waiting for a 1st round pick in 2018 + two future 2nd rounders + Dumping Grabovski.

I mean the advantage for the NYI here is very slight. I mean sure you dump Grabao, but he has one year left and likely stays on the IR - Not a big deal to me.

I understand you get an extra 2nd round pick. But, they could have traded down from 15 a few spots and got a 2nd round pick in 2017 if they wanted. Or stand pat, and draft one of Valimaki/Brannstrom/Liljegren.

Also you don't know where those 2018 picks will land. I personally would rather draft 15th, and take a prospect now, instead of waiting for 2018-2020 to use those picks.

First of all: the 2017 draft is weak and there's a reasonable chance whoever they'd pick would never make it to the NHL. Kieffer Bellows taken at 18 last year would've been a top 5 pick in this years draft according to the McKenzie &co. A mid 1st in 2017 is probably more like a 2nd in a "normal" draft. Those in the know say the 2018 draft is much, much better. The Isles now have 2 1st round picks in a great draft.

Secondly: Grabovski made more money and had a higher cap hit than Hamonic. Every penny counts. He will most likely never play again and as such holds no value.

Thirdly: Hamonic wanted to go home. Garth did him a huge favour by dealing him to Western Canada.

Finally: The plan was to use Hamonic in a deal for Duchene. If they let Hamonic go to Vegas - no chance for Duchene

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I'm just hoping Garth can use his jedi mind trick on Tavares and get him to sign on July 1st.

Eberle being JT's friend is a small silver lining I am trying to focus on right now.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Because the best player of a team never walked because he thought his parent club wasn't really trying?

What franchise player in the NHL during the cap era has walked away from the team that drafted him?

 

[blitzkriegs]

it's not like it's an unreasonable thing to believe.

Sure, but in reality it's just leverage by his agent. End of story.

 

[seafoam]

Can anyone explain the major advantage of not letting Vegas select Hamonic, and keeping the 15th pick + your 2018 2nd round pick. Vs waiting for a 1st round pick in 2018 + two future 2nd rounders + Dumping Grabovski.

I mean the advantage for the NYI here is very slight. I mean sure you dump Grabao, but he has one year left and likely stays on the IR - Not a big deal to me.

I understand you get an extra 2nd round pick. But, they could have traded down from 15 a few spots and got a 2nd round pick in 2017 if they wanted. Or stand pat, and draft one of Valimaki/Brannstrom/Liljegren.

Also you don't know where those 2018 picks will land. I personally would rather draft 15th, and take a prospect now, instead of waiting for 2018-2020 to use those picks.

Hamonic was on the table for Duchene.

 

[YearlyLottery]

What franchise player in the NHL during the cap era has walked away from the team that drafted him?

What franchise player has had to deal with the same amount of failure and lack of skill that Tavares has been surrounded with? Rick Nash was the franchise guy on Columbus and was dealt.

 

[blitzkriegs]

What franchise player has had to deal with the same amount of failure and lack of skill that Tavares has been surrounded with? Rick Nash was the franchise guy on Columbus and was dealt.

Oh brother. The violins come out for Tavares and how sad the franchise is and he should be rewarded by going somewhere else.

Nash was traded but he essentially was miscast as being a 'franchise player' when he wasn't one.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Oh brother. The violins come out for Tavares and how sad the franchise is and he should be rewarded by going somewhere else.

Nash was traded but he essentially was miscast as being a 'franchise player' when he wasn't one.

Dude the team has won one playoff series since he has been here..... Whether or not that his fault the team hasn't had as much success as one would have envisioned when he was drafted here.... Are you going to disagree with that too?

 

[blitzkriegs]

Dude the team has won one playoff series since he has been here..... Whether or not that his fault the team hasn't had as much success as one would have envisioned when he was drafted here.... Are you going to disagree with that too?

No, that's just the reality of it. The Isles were rebuilding and he was part of it. They built through the draft and the TEAM didn't win and he is part of that team.

Some players didn't pan out as well as they should have and certainly the 'core' wasn't able to get to the next level, that includes JT.

Last year and now, they are changing up the roster in an effort to get to the next level.

 

[PK Cronin]

Sure, but in reality it's just leverage by his agent. End of story.

Leverage for what? Tavares is getting a blank check.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Leverage for what? Tavares is getting a blank check.

Well, if he's so concerned with who he plays with, inferior players, coaches, etc that the fanbase seems to believe, yet all signs appear he wants to resign, well, his agents only leverage in resigning his client is to pressure the team to improve itself for the benefit of his client before he resigns.

He's already get his money and term and the team...

 

[A Pointed Stick]

What franchise player in the NHL during the cap era has walked away from the team that drafted him?

I didn't say franchise, I said best player.

The very first that comes to mind is Rick Nash demanding out of Columbus.

 

[JKP]

I love watching people debate what's in the head of a person they have never met.

No one knows what's important to JT except JT, his agent and maybe Garth.

So y'all need to just stop already with projecting what you guys think onto JT.

 

[periferal]

Loyalty can go a long way in swaying someone, that's all I'm saying. Not interested in revisiting the debate.

I don't put more importance on what could be the case (that seems to be an issue with our debate, because sometimes you think I'm actively defending Snow and think he's a good GM when I'm just exploring possible scenarios in which it may make sense to keep him around), I just like to know or explore as much as I can about a particular situation to help me understand the decision making process. It'd also be nice to not be ridiculed for speculating, but it is what it is.

I don't think I ever ridiculed you, so hope you weren't referring to me.

Again it simply comes down to this...If snow did a better job then the isles would be better and Tavares leaving staying wouldn't be an issue - Regardless of any loyalty.

 

[periferal]

All Pat Brisson has to do is not answer any Isles calls until July 15th and Tavares will get 1 million more a year.

So basically the more you hear Tavares' camp "playing it cool" in the media I think it's just posturing to get the best deal from the isles...Since every quote directly from Tavares over the past 3 years hurt his negotiating power.

 

[PWJunior]

All Pat Brisson has to do is not answer any Isles calls until July 15th and Tavares will get 1 million more a year.

So basically the more you hear Tavares' camp "playing it cool" in the media I think it's just posturing to get the best deal from the isles...Since every quote directly from Tavares over the past 3 years hurt his negotiating power.

Tavares is pretty much getting a blank check. He has tons of leverage, why does he need more? Can he even get MORE leverage? Is that even possible?

Money and term is a non-issue.

 

[BarBeauWahlDobLok]

If Tavares goes, I'll have to get a whole new user name. How messed up is that?!

 

[periferal]

Tavares is pretty much getting a blank check. He has tons of leverage, why does he need more? Can he even get MORE leverage? Is that even possible?

Money and term is a non-issue.

I feel like Brisson is coaching him a bit because of how many times JT intimated he was going to stay in NY the past few years. Remember that no matter what Brisson can negotiate for a player he has to do what that player wants. Plus snow is usually good at contracts so I just think a great agent is representing his client to the fullest trying to get every advantage on his side - Even if he already has "tons of leverage."

 

[TROLLCHUK]

What franchise player in the NHL during the cap era has walked away from the team that drafted him?

Rick Nash for $500, Alex.