Rumor: Habs to test waters on Andrew Shaw

[Habs4Life]

we need a center, and vegas wants to trade Vadim Shipachyov so why not trade Shaw for him.

 

[LaP]

Not that it matters, but i couldnt see this group drafting DeBrincat even if they had the pick. Girard maybe but we always are late to the party with QMJHL players for some reason.

But i do agree two 2nds was an overpay.

Having said that, i also like Shaw, however as was said earlier i dont like his salary.

So i guess i'm not really sure how i feel☺

Two 2nd was fine. If it had been two end of 2nd round. Problem is one was a 39th pick which is almost first round and the other was 45th pick i.e. middle of 2nd round. The 45th pick and our 3rd round pick (69th) would have been more than fair. Giving that 39th pick was just ridiculous.

 

[Trumpet Hab]

That was definitely a WTF trade.

This trade reminds me the Linden and Damphousse moves.

Trading Eller for two 2nd was a good move and it made sense. Then you trade two better 2nd for Shaw and you void anything positive of the previous move and it then becomes negative.

Was the same with Damphousse and Linden. We got a conditional 1st for Damphousse. Was not a very good trade since the 1st was conditional to SJ signing him (which made the trade a trade for a signed player and not an UFA one) but still we got a good first for him and with the 2nd along with Zubrus we got for Recchi we could look forward. Then our dumb GM traded a better first than the one we got for Damphousse in exchange of Linden. That was like WTF is that.

Eller would look damned good in our lineup now wouldn't he.

 

[G0bias]

Two 2nd was fine. If it had been two end of 2nd round. Problem is one was a 39th pick which is almost first round and the other was 45th pick i.e. middle of 2nd round. The 45th pick and our 3rd round pick (69th) would have been more than fair. Giving that 39th pick was just ridiculous.

I have to disagree here. A player of Shaw's caliber and upside doesn't command that much. Bergevin was too enamoured by the Chicago factor, character and other nonsense - following it with that absurd contract only further confirmed this. Chicago knew it and took advantage.

Would've been fine with giving the two 2nds for Teravainen instead.

 

[mariolemieux66]

I have to disagree here. A player of Shaw's caliber and upside doesn't command that much. Bergevin was too enamoured by the Chicago factor, character and other nonsense - following it with that absurd contract only further confirmed this. Chicago knew it and took advantage.

Would've been fine with giving the two 2nds for Teravainen instead.

Brendan Prust had more value than Andrew Shaw.

 

[Habs100]

Andrew Shaw for Shipachyov

 

[Miller Time]

Andrew Shaw for Shipachyov

would be too obvious a move for a GM like Bergevin to figure out...

as an asset, ship is far easier to manage this year and next, even if he contributes nothing or simply gets waived/suspended, than managing Shaw whom were stuck with for an astounding 4 more seasons.

Doubt Vegas bites though, wouldn't make much sense for them.

 

[The Great Weal]

would be too obvious a move for a GM like Bergevin to figure out...

as an asset, ship is far easier to manage this year and next, even if he contributes nothing or simply gets waived/suspended, than managing Shaw whom were stuck with for an astounding 4 more seasons.

Doubt Vegas bites though, wouldn't make much sense for them.

McPhee is awful, he could very well accept it.

 

[Saint Patrick]

Andrew Shaw for Shipachyov

I would do that in a heartbeat, but apparently mb the genius thinks the solution is in the locker room, behind Carey Price’s jockstrap.

 

[TheGame777]

Honestly it's not a move I would do. I don't feel that Shaw is overpaid if you look at the market he got what he was supposed to have for a 12-15g and 30-40pts player. Plus he brings lots of intangibles that are important on and off the ice. And lets not forget that he is way younger than Shipachyov. It would only be bad asset management by Bergevin if he did that. Trade him for a player that can't even win a spot on an expansion team, that makes more money(talking about cap hit and not actual money), that haven't proven anything and then hoping that the contract is voided if it doesn't work. In other words it's a gamble that doesn't make us better in the end because you need Shipachyov to prove he can win a spot and produce at a good rate (he is skilled but its too much of a gamble) and may leave us with nothing in return of Shaw. So two second round picks lost for nothing. Really really bad asset management. Andrew Shaw will always find a suitor in this league. He has a good reputation as a teammate and he is beloved by his coaches while being a good hockey player able to score and win draws while playing hockey with talented players because he is talented too.

This guy is so underrated it's just crazy. I wish I could take all his shifts in a video and show how much he does so many good things that go unnoticed. It's reaching the level of the Pacioretty hate. An other player that get way more hate than he deserve. Pacioretty had maybe 2-3 bad games per say for the rest you could see he worked hard and tried some things that didn't work but no he is just lazy and a ghost...

If Shaw is traded it will be for two other second round pick or for something of equal value. I'm sure many teams would kill to have him at the deadline. An elite team would be adding a really good third liner that can play anywhere on the line up while having a good playoff resume. That's the type of addition at the deadline that can make you're team really dangerous in the playoff. Imagine him in St-louis or with the Penguins or any other top team that can use more quality depth.

 

[Slew Foots]

Essentially replacing Eller by Shaw and signing him to a long term contract is an emblematic move epitomizing MB’s inability to understand his own roster and what it takes to win in the NHL today. It’s not (just) that Shaw is overrated, it’s more that he was absolutely not what this team needed.

 

[Beville]

McPhee is awful, he could very well accept it.

I don't know if the fool is that much of a fool...

But stranger things have happened.

 

[habergeon]

Just read on Vegals board Engells says Habs are out. I wish we could get reasons because it seems like a good deal for both teams. I guess he may be a head case or something.

This is going to sound crazy but this organization over the last several years just doesnt seem to like Russians.

The last player we've drafted out of Russia was Avstin in 2009, and since then we've drafted two out of the CHL...one of which was traded a year later.

If you want to throw Galchenyuk in that group, hes not exactly enamored by the organization and has probably received the harshest treatment and public callings out of any prospect during that time.

Yes, we signed Rads and he was great but the way that relationship ended seemed personal with Bergevin playing hardball.

And I wont even get into Markov.

IDK, I don't have any proof but from my perspective the Habs just dont seem to like Russians.

 

[V13]

we need a center, and vegas wants to trade Vadim Shipachyov so why not trade Shaw for him.

I'd do it but from what i've read on the main boards about Shipachev...apparently the guy is soft as hell and can't even crack the roster of an expension team. But i'd still do it onh the basis that we get out of Shaw contract and gambling on the fact that Schipachev has more offensive upside , is a center and could work if he is surrounded by the right elements.

 

[Belial]

This is going to sound crazy but this organization over the last several years just doesnt seem to like Russians.

The last player we've drafted out of Russia was Avstin in 2009, and since then we've drafted two out of the CHL...one of which was traded a year later.

If you want to throw Galchenyuk in that group, hes not exactly enamored by the organization and has probably received the harshest treatment and public callings out of any prospect during that time.

Yes, we signed Rads and he was great but the way that relationship ended seemed personal with Bergevin playing hardball.

And I wont even get into Markov.

IDK, I don't have any proof but from my perspective the Habs just dont seem to like Russians.

Didn't we have the most Russians in the league last year?...

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Shaw is overpaid but he's not a bad player and was on pace for 35 points last year playing mainly in the bottom six with bottom six talent. He's still in his mid twenties and will only be 31 when his deal ends. He's one of our few physical players and he's one of better players in the faceoff circle, while also being responsible defensively.

I just find it funny people complain about his contract yet get upset we didn't sign Radulov to a $7 million contract. I guess signing a guy for 15-20 extra points is worth $3 million extra despite being older and on the downside of his career, while taking more stupid/lazy minor penalties than Shaw did.

 

[Tighthead]

Considering we have over 8m in cap space does it really matter if he's overpaid?

Yes because his contract in term and cap hit has a negative effect on his trade value.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I don't know if the fool is that much of a fool...

But stranger things have happened.

oh he is, he traded Forsberg for Martin Erat!!!

 

[habergeon]

Didn't we have the most Russians in the league last year?...

I don't know, tbh. We had three.

I never looked into if that was above or below. I know, it sounds crazy but we don't draft them. Perhaps other organizations are the same.

Edit: Looking around we had 4 (including Sergacheve) who played games us, same as Tampa / Colorado, Washington had 3...all had more in the system.

My comment covered over the past 6 years since Bergevin got here. Markov / Emelin were already here.

 

[smcgreg]

This is going to sound crazy but this organization over the last several years just doesnt seem to like Russians.

The last player we've drafted out of Russia was Avstin in 2009, and since then we've drafted two out of the CHL...one of which was traded a year later.

If you want to throw Galchenyuk in that group, hes not exactly enamored by the organization and has probably received the harshest treatment and public callings out of any prospect during that time.

Yes, we signed Rads and he was great but the way that relationship ended seemed personal with Bergevin playing hardball.

And I wont even get into Markov.

IDK, I don't have any proof but from my perspective the Habs just dont seem to like Russians.

The Habs, or Habs management, because I think quite a lot of the Habs liked Markov. I think quite a lot of the Habs liked Radulov. Habs management, though, that seems to be another matter.

 

[Sorinth]

Yes because his contract in term and cap hit has a negative effect on his trade value.

But the argument was we have to trade him because of his bad contract. You can't claim we have to trade him because of his bad contract if the only reason is his bad contract hurts his trade value. That's nonsensical, the only trade you can make is get a worse player on a better contract. How does getting a worse player help us? It doesn't. How does going from 8m cap space to say 9-12m help us? It doesn't.

That's why it's pointless to trade him. It doesn't help us in any way, now or in the future.

 

[ArtPeur]

I don't know, tbh. We had three.

I never looked into if that was above or below. I know, it sounds crazy but we don't draft them. Perhaps other organizations are the same.

Edit: Looking around we had 4 (including Sergacheve) who played games us, same as Tampa / Colorado, Washington had 3...all had more in the system.

My comment covered over the past 6 years since Bergevin got here. Markov / Emelin were already here.

add Nesterov and Scherbak to some extent

 

[Tighthead]

But the argument was we have to trade him because of his bad contract. You can't claim we have to trade him because of his bad contract if the only reason is his bad contract hurts his trade value. That's nonsensical, the only trade you can make is get a worse player on a better contract. How does getting a worse player help us? It doesn't. How does going from 8m cap space to say 9-12m help us? It doesn't.

That's why it's pointless to trade him. It doesn't help us in any way, now or in the future.

That wasn’t my argument.

You want the option to trade any player at any time, especially guys like Shaw who aren’t exactly irreplaceable. On a decent contract he is an asset. On his current contract he is much less of an asset. He isn’t fetching two mid-high second rounders anymore.

3/4 line guys can quickly become redundant. Being tied down to one like Shaw is just not prudent.

 

[Sorinth]

Shaw is overpaid but he's not a bad player and was on pace for 35 points last year playing mainly in the bottom six with bottom six talent. He's still in his mid twenties and will only be 31 when his deal ends. He's one of our few physical players and he's one of better players in the faceoff circle, while also being responsible defensively.

I just find it funny people complain about his contract yet get upset we didn't sign Radulov to a $7 million contract. I guess signing a guy for 15-20 extra points is worth $3 million extra despite being older and on the downside of his career, while taking more stupid/lazy minor penalties than Shaw did.

Except 7 of his 29 points came from the PP where he wasn't playing with bottom six talent.

Also of his 22 ESP, 8 of them came with the aid of either Pacioretty or Galchenyuk, so it's flat out wrong to claim he's a 35 point player playing in the bottom six player with other bottom six players. He's a 25-30 point player without PP time, and even worse then that without top-6 ES ice-time/players.

 

[Sorinth]

That wasn’t my argument.

You want the option to trade any player at any time, especially guys like Shaw who aren’t exactly irreplaceable. On a decent contract he is an asset. On his current contract he is much less of an asset. He isn’t fetching two mid-high second rounders anymore.

3/4 line guys can quickly become redundant. Being tied down to one like Shaw is just not prudent.

Well why reply to my post if you aren't going to read the post I was replying too and follow the conversation?

But whatever, your point is that because he has bad trade value we should trade him is just dumb. His contract isn't preventing us from doing anything because we have more cap space then we can possibly use. So the contract part is irrelevant to whether we should trade Shaw or not.