Proposal: Habs - Ducks

[liquiduck]

Based on the fact Fowler is still with the Ducks when he's been on the market for a while now (at least that's what the rumors are). Ducks are dangling him to see what they can get but no deal yet?

Only way ducks get a top 6 forward is they get a expiring UFA contract in return. Is this what they are looking for? Probably not so he probably stays a Duck and they try to trade other D man instead.

He's not "that" good based on the fact that he hasn't been traded yet?

 

[liquiduck]

Positive?

Yes. A positive. You know, the opposite of negative....

 

[ohmyjlord]

Why? They'd just go ahead and let Despres go in the expansion draft.

So basically, you're saying you'd rather keep Fowler, who's gonna be a very coveted UFA should he hit free agency in two years, than trade him for Simon Despres, Nikita Scherbak, Michael McCarron and a 1st in next years draft ?

If that's the value you give to Fowler, then he'll be a Duck for...at least two more years.

 

[liquiduck]

So basically, you're saying you'd rather keep Fowler, who's gonna very coveted UFA should hit free agency in two years, than trade him for Simon Despres, Nikita Scherbak, Michael McCarron and a 1st in next years draft ?

If that's the value you give to Fowler, than he'll be a Duck for...at least two more years.

They aren't trading him for Despres, that's a convoluted way to look at it.

Someone will be lost in expansion regardless.

Fowler hitting UFA in two years doesn't mean they take a lesser return now. Have you seen the price paid for rentals? Anaheim has until the deadline in 17-18 season to trade him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fowler is a solid defenseman. Moves the puck well and would complement Weber nicely on the back end with the Habs, and give them two tremendous defense pairings and a third good pairing.

Fowler - Weber
Markov - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn

That's a solid mix of size, speed, and veteran/youth.

I don't know what the Ducks would want in order to part with him, but you have to think he's being moved with all the signings that have taken place and the young talent they have in the pipeline.

Naturally Habs fans will want to buy him cheap, and Ducks fans will want to sell him high.

I'd have to say it starts with a 2017 1st round pick, Scherbak, and either a cost controlled forward like Andrighetto, or another pick/prospect. I'd rather keep Macaroon and hope he's not the one being dangled as he's the only power forward prospect the Habs have.

I don't know what it takes, but I understand why Anaheim fans want more, Fowler is a first pairing defenseman and would fit very nicely with Weber on the top pair.

Ana wants a top 6 proven foward and Mtl don't have it to give. We only can offer prospects and picks. But I suspect most teams interested in Fowler are in the same boat.

Agreed... hate to lose Macaron and don't think MB is going to trade him.

 

[crowi]

Offer Gallagher or stop posting proposals about Fowler.

 

[liquiduck]

Ana wants a top 6 proven foward and Mtl don't have it to give. We only can offer prospects and picks. But I suspect most teams interested in Fowler are in the same boat.

Agreed... hate to lose Macaron and don't think MB is going to trade him.

Anaheim and MTL are bad trading partners. That's ok.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Fowler is a solid defenseman. Moves the puck well and would complement Weber nicely on the back end with the Habs, and give them two tremendous defense pairings and a third good pairing.

Fowler - Weber
Markov - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn

That's a solid mix of size, speed, and veteran/youth.

I don't know what the Ducks would want in order to part with him, but you have to think he's being moved with all the signings that have taken place and the young talent they have in the pipeline.

Naturally Habs fans will want to buy him cheap, and Ducks fans will want to sell him high.

I'd have to say it starts with a 2017 1st round pick, Scherbak, and either a cost controlled forward like Andrighetto, or another pick/prospect. I'd rather keep McCarron and hope he's not the one being dangled as he's the only power forward prospect the Habs have.

I don't know what it takes, but I understand why Anaheim fans want more, Fowler is a first pairing defenseman and would fit very nicely with Weber on the top pair.

Yeah, we'd want something you probably wouldn't want to give up. ANA and MTL aren't good trading partners. Like us, MTL wants to win now and, thus, only has futures to offer. Not good enough I'm afraid.

If Fowler was so valuable, why didn't the Oliers trade T Hall for him? The problem is he is 2 years away from UFA and most people with realistic expectations knows it.

Lehkonen: 2nd round pick (#55 overall) in 2013 draft. He's been playing with men overseas over the last 2 season and was a top performing player. This guy is good two way player with leadership and will be a top 6 in the NHL next year or the year after depending on your depth at LW

Andrighetto: He's arguably Gallagher round 2. Lots of speed with scoring touch and gritty.

1st round pick: This is overboard (my opinion) but gets the deal done.

One fan's opinion vs another fan's opinion but I suspect if this deal was actually on the table, Ducks would take it. I get the feeling you don't know the Habs prospect depth. Lots to choose from and a lot of players are ready this coming season or next for sure.

Because Larsson has #1D upside and is right handed?

I'm not even arguing value with you anymore. A package of futures doesn't fulfill our needs. What don't you get about that?

I understand that's what you're looking for. But you're not gonna get a combination of cost-controlled (therefor youth), skills and assurance (can play top-6 right now) for 2 years of Fowler, ESPECIALLY this year, when ALL the other teams are aware that the Ducks are in a bit of a cap crunch, and have to sell Fowler low, or face the strong possibility to lose him (or Despres) for free through the expansion draft.

If that's the price to pay, then teams are gonna wait, and wait, and wait...and the Ducks will ultimately have to settle for half of the return they would've got now.

Tatar+ has already been discussed by ourselves and DET fans. Both fan bases seem to think it's a good starting point. Tatar is due 2.5M next season, so we'd save $ and get a good, contributing talent.

As far as the bold, that's possible, but then we'll probably just move him at the TDL for some stupidly inflated price like Yandle was. Having said that, DET have stacked themselves with forwards and the Ducks are continuing to stack themselves with D. So I wouldn't put it passed BM having a deal lined up already. We just signed Holzer yesterday. That leaves both teams as follows:

ANA = 12 NHL ready forwards + 10 NHL ready D-men.

DET = 19 NHL ready forwards + 6 NHL ready D-men.

Somethings gotta give.

Based on the fact Fowler is still with the Ducks when he's been on the market for a while now (at least that's what the rumors are). Ducks are dangling him to see what they can get but no deal yet?

Only way ducks get a top 6 forward is they get a expiring UFA contract in return. Is this what they are looking for? Probably not so he probably stays a Duck and they try to trade other D man instead.

Unless you're an insider, you have no idea whether that is true or not. The Ducks could quite easily have a deal ready to go, but they're waiting to sign Lindholm. So I repeat, your opinion is based on "nothing".

 

[Habs Halifax]

I see a lot of assumptions being made here by you, and they all conveniently support your team ripping the Ducks off.

Hope the trade happens and we get to see what the real value is. I'm very curious

 

[mytduxfan*]

Ana wants a top 6 proven foward and Mtl don't have it to give. We only can offer prospects and picks. But I suspect most teams interested in Fowler are in the same boat.

Agreed... hate to lose Macaron and don't think MB is going to trade him.

Nope. DET are stacked with top 6 forwards.

Offer Gallagher or stop posting proposals about Fowler.

Patches or Galc. Gallagher would get mauled in the West.

 

[ottawa]

Haha wow, this is awful. But I'll say yes as a Habs fan.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Det actually offered Tatar in a deal, it would be done by now. No way that's happening.

Are you BM? How do you know that something around Tatar+ For Cam Fowler isn't done and they're just waiting for BM to resign Lindholm. Fowler isn't going to get moved until Lindholm is resigned. But a team could still have a deal in place and it's just contingent that Lindholm is resigned.

 

[liquiduck]

So basically, you're saying you'd rather keep Fowler, who's gonna be a very coveted UFA should he hit free agency in two years, than trade him for Simon Despres, Nikita Scherbak, Michael McCarron and a 1st in next years draft ?

If that's the value you give to Fowler, then he'll be a Duck for...at least two more years.

To be clear, i'm not saying the bolded is a bad offer. In fact, it's a pretty good offer, but I doubt BM wants a return of pure futures. If he goes, that route, I wouldn't complain about the value you just threw out there at all.

 

[Sojourn]

Hope the trade happens and we get to see what the real value is. I'm very curious

I suspect it will happen shortly after Lindholm is re-signed, or we'll go into the season with Fowler on the blue line.

Which I'm perfectly fine with. Our blue line is better with him.

As for your Larsson question, I mean, did you really think that one through? First off, Larsson is a RHD. That's a need for Edmonton. Larsson is also signed for three more years than Fowler. And finally, I highly doubt Edmonton was all that keen on seeing Taylor Hall on a division rival. None of that suggests that Fowler isn't valuable. It just means that Fowler wasn't the right choice for Edmonton.

 

[ohmyjlord]

They aren't trading him for Despres, that's a convoluted way to look at it.

Someone will be lost in expansion regardless.

Fowler hitting UFA in two years doesn't mean they take a lesser return now. Have you seen the price paid for rentals? Anaheim has until the deadline in 17-18 season to trade him.

That's the NET trade-off.

Now say you do in fact trade Fowler for that coveted young, cost-controlled, ready-now top-6 forward. How do you protect him at the draft ?

The Ducks all already rumored to go 8+1, right ? Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler and Bieksa MUST be protected. Lindholm and Vatanen will be for sure. That leaves two spots for Rakell, Silfverberg, Fowler and Despres...not even counting Cogliano.

You trade Fowler for that cost-controlled ready-now top-6 winger. And then what ? You keep your newly acquired top-6 winger and probably Despres...and then lose Rakell or Silfverberg ? Now you don't have Fowler, and you're back to square 1 with a hole in your top-6/top-9.

Now I'm not saying this means the Ducks should undeniably go for a package of prospects like the one I suggested. However, this is an option the Ducks could (and maybe should) evaluate.

The thing is, the closer we'll get to the expansion draft, the weaker the offers are going to get. Like I said in my original post, this isn't even a price I would be comfortable to pay for Fowler RIGHT NOW. The Habs NEED those young players, and while getting Fowler would be quite a nice addition, it would also mean leaving Beaulieu unprotected. But that trade would make a lot more sense for the Ducks, all things considered.

 

[liquiduck]

That's the NET trade-off.

Now say you do in fact trade Fowler for that coveted young, cost-controlled, ready-now top-6 forward. How do you protect him at the draft ?

The Ducks all already rumored to go 8+1, right ? Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler and Bieksa MUST be protected. Lindholm and Vatanen will be for sure. That leaves two spots for Rakell, Silfverberg, Fowler and Despres...not even counting Cogliano.

You trade Fowler for that cost-controlled ready-now top-6 winger. And then what ? You keep your newly acquired top-6 winger and probably Despres...and then lose Rakell or Silfverberg ? Now you don't have Fowler, and you're back to square 1 with a hole in your top-6/top-9.

Now I'm not saying this means the Ducks should undeniably go for a package of prospects like the one I suggested. However, this is an option the Ducks could (and maybe should) evaluate.

The thing is, the closer we'll get to the expansion draft, the weaker the offers are going to get. Like I said in my original post, this isn't even a price I would be comfortable to pay for Fowler RIGHT NOW. The Habs NEED those young players, and while getting Fowler would be quite a nice addition, it would also mean leaving Beaulieu unprotected. But that trade would make a lot more sense for the Ducks, all things considered.

I doubt Anaheim goes 8+1 in expansion. Maybe if they don't add anyone upfront, but even then that's pretty questionable.

Plus, buying out Bieksa is another easy solution to opening up a protection slot.

 

[crowi]

bla bla bla

Gallagher?

 

[mytduxfan*]

That's the NET trade-off.

Now say you do in fact trade Fowler for that coveted young, cost-controlled, ready-now top-6 forward. How do you protect him at the draft ?

The Ducks all already rumored to go 8+1, right ? Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler and Bieksa MUST be protected. Lindholm and Vatanen will be for sure. That leaves two spots for Rakell, Silfverberg, Fowler and Despres...not even counting Cogliano.

You trade Fowler for that cost-controlled ready-now top-6 winger. And then what ? You keep your newly acquired top-6 winger and probably Despres...and then lose Rakell or Silfverberg ? Now you don't have Fowler, and you're back to square 1 with a hole in your top-6/top-9.

Now I'm not saying this means the Ducks should undeniably go for a package of prospects like the one I suggested. However, this is an option the Ducks could (and maybe should) evaluate.

The thing is, the closer we'll get to the expansion draft, the weaker the offers are going to get. Like I said in my original post, this isn't even a price I would be comfortable to pay for Fowler RIGHT NOW. The Habs NEED those young players, and while getting Fowler would be quite a nice addition, it would also mean leaving Beaulieu unprotected. But that trade would make a lot more sense for the Ducks, all things considered.

We'd got 7+3+1 and buyout Bieksa. We'd probably end up losing Despres, but he's probably the most replaceable D we have aside from Bieksa and Stoner. D pairings after the draft would be:

Lindholm - Manson
Theodore - Vatanen
Stoner - Montour
Larsson

If Theodore and Montour continue to progress, I won't be complaining.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

The Ducks all already rumored to go 8+1, right ? Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler and Bieksa MUST be protected. Lindholm and Vatanen will be for sure. That leaves two spots for Rakell, Silfverberg, Fowler and Despres...not even counting Cogliano.

You trade Fowler for that cost-controlled ready-now top-6 winger. And then what ? You keep your newly acquired top-6 winger and probably Despres...and then lose Rakell or Silfverberg ? Now you don't have Fowler, and you're back to square 1 with a hole in your top-6/top-9.

Where are you seeing that the Ducks are rumored to be doing anything with regards to expansion? Our GM wouldn't be letting that info slip out anywhere.

There's no way they let Bieksa take up a protection slot. If he won't agree to waive his NMC, he'll almost surely be bought out of the final year of his deal. Trade Fowler for a forward at some point before expansion and protect 7 forwards + Lindholm/Vatanen/Manson.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Will there even be a buyout window before the expansion draft ? I was under the impression that there wouldn't be.

 

[liquiduck]

Will there even be a buyout window before the expansion draft ? I was under the impression that there wouldn't be.

Yes, there is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's not "that" good based on the fact that he hasn't been traded yet?

No, he's not been traded yet because of asking price.

 

[Sojourn]

Will there even be a buyout window before the expansion draft ? I was under the impression that there wouldn't be.

Where did you hear that?

The only thing I heard is that Las Vegas won't be able to buy out any of the players until the following off-season. That's the only restriction I've seen, and the buy out window would open just prior to the expansion draft.

 

[liquiduck]

No, he's not been traded yet because of asking price.

Poosibly. Or that we need to sign Lindholm first which has already been mentioned.

Neither speaks to how good a player he is.

 

[ohmyjlord]

Yes, there is.

Oh scrap that then...if you guys can buyout Bieksa, then trading Fowler for a top-6 forward makes TONS more sense.

You can then go 7-3-1 and protect Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, both Silfverberg and Rakell + that newly acquired winger...and probably Cogliano, and would still be able to protect Lindholm, Vatanen and Despres. NOW THAT'S A PLAN.