Grade the Off-season so far

[Jakeybonz]

Here's what everyone said just prior to the 2016 debacle.

pb1300: "A without a doubt. The best offseason in team history."
Kid Icarus: "Easy A"
GermanPanther: A-
Pumaconcolorcoryi: B
Acadmus: "Incomplete. I think the jury has to be out on this offseason until we've had a chance to see the team in action. If they make things worse, it's an F."
Kellyr: B
IM Clutcm: B
FlaPnthrsPunk: A-
catEye: A+
FinlandPanther: "Easily an A."
ucanthanzalthetruth: B+
PanthersHockey1: A
Chaos2k7: "A if we win the Stanley Cup, B+ for this franchise"

Acadmus with the only logical opinion in the entire thread. Just because sports writers are spitting hot takes about the offseason to desperately attract eyeballs and sell clicks prior to the deadest part of the hockey year, doesn't mean everyone else should be doing it too. Best wait until you see how things go before handing out GM of the year awards in July.

people don't learn.

 

[KW]

people don't learn.

Neither do you then apparently. You gave the team a grade but you don’t know for sure. No one knows.

So you should say nothing in this whole thread because according to you and the poster you quoted, only Monday morning quarterbacks have the right to comment. No speculation is to be allowed.

Well, sorry to disappoint you but I’ll state my speculative “unlearned” opinion whether you like it or not. Kellyr was right - this thread can only be fun if we speculate. Because that’s the purpose here.

Duh. (It’s really unbelievable that it needed to be explained but there it is, and you’re welcome.)

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Here's what everyone said just prior to the 2016 debacle.

pb1300: "A without a doubt. The best offseason in team history."
Kid Icarus: "Easy A"
GermanPanther: A-
Pumaconcolorcoryi: B
Acadmus: "Incomplete. I think the jury has to be out on this offseason until we've had a chance to see the team in action. If they make things worse, it's an F."
Kellyr: B
IM Clutcm: B
FlaPnthrsPunk: A-
catEye: A+
FinlandPanther: "Easily an A."
ucanthanzalthetruth: B+
PanthersHockey1: A
Chaos2k7: "A if we win the Stanley Cup, B+ for this franchise"

Acadmus with the only logical opinion in the entire thread. Just because sports writers are spitting hot takes about the offseason to desperately attract eyeballs and sell clicks prior to the deadest part of the hockey year, doesn't mean everyone else should be doing it too. Best wait until you see how things go before handing out GM of the year awards in July.

Right but it's an offseason thread lol, we're just trying to kill time here...

Carolina needs to be on the 2nd tier, Devils were the biggest 1 man team this past season, Carolina has one of the best D-groups in the league from 1-7 and have 2 potential franchise forwards developing at F.

Well like I said their forwards are really bad, but NJD and CAR are fairly interchangable. I'm just trying to give NJD some benefit of the doubt, because on paper their roster is not good, but I thought that last year and Kinkaid and Hall went clutch.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Also lending credence to me not trusting the Devils being bad are the oddsmakers: Stanley Cup odds 2019: Maple Leafs new favorites after John Tavares signing

On June 15th, Florida and NJD were projected tied for the 8th best Cup odds in the East at 40/1. After the new July 1st rankings, Florida, who got a good top 6 forward in Mike Hoffman for essentially nothing, remain at 40/1, and NJD, who made exactly 2 signings, Eric Gryba (AHL depth) and Eddie Lack to be the #3 and backup while Schneider recovers, while letting a decent forward in Maroon and a meh dman in John Moore walk, went up to 35/1 odds.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Also lending credence to me not trusting the Devils being bad are the oddsmakers: Stanley Cup odds 2019: Maple Leafs new favorites after John Tavares signing

On June 15th, Florida and NJD were projected tied for the 8th best Cup odds in the East at 40/1. After the new July 1st rankings, Florida, who got a good top 6 forward in Mike Hoffman for essentially nothing, remain at 40/1, and NJD, who made exactly 2 signings, Eric Gryba (AHL depth) and Eddie Lack to be the #3 and backup while Schneider recovers, while letting a decent forward in Maroon and a meh dman in John Moore walk, went up to 35/1 odds.

The Edmonton one alone makes me discard these odds makers.

 

[Chaos2k7]

LOL, trust me when I tell you, future prop bets are very subjective.

Thats why they play the games guys. On paper is nice, but rarely ever does the most talented team ever become a lock. Unless we are talking about the current state of the NBA, that is.

 

[Jakeybonz]

Neither do you then apparently. You gave the team a grade but you don’t know for sure. No one knows.

So you should say nothing in this whole thread because according to you and the poster you quoted, only Monday morning quarterbacks have the right to comment. No speculation is to be allowed.

Well, sorry to disappoint you but I’ll state my speculative “unlearned” opinion whether you like it or not. Kellyr was right - this thread can only be fun if we speculate. Because that’s the purpose here.

Duh. (It’s really unbelievable that it needed to be explained but there it is, and you’re welcome.)

what a nonsensical response. I wasn't criticizing people speculating. ivesaid a million times thats the point of forums. I was just mesmorized at the unbrideled optimism panthers fans continue to have despite absolutely nothing being done to give us a winning team. and thay trend continues.

 

[Haj]

The offseason has been fine so far. Only the problem is not buying out Haley and Mckenzie.

Every other team in the Atlantic has also taken significant strides forward....so it is still possible we don' t make the playoffs.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Every other team in the Atlantic has also taken significant strides forward....so it is still possible we don' t make the playoffs.

I disagree. Detroit, Buffalo, Montreal and Ottawa have gotten worse. Also CBJ and NJD added no one? The only team worse than Florida last year who improved was Carolina.

Like there's no question, Toronto, a team better than Florida last year, will also be better than Florida this year, I'm just not sure how that affects the Panthers.

 

[RogerRoger]

I disagree. Detroit, Buffalo, Montreal and Ottawa have gotten worse. Also CBJ and NJD added no one? The only team worse than Florida last year who improved was Carolina.

Like there's no question, Toronto, a team better than Florida last year, will also be better than Florida this year, I'm just not sure how that affects the Panthers.

I'd say the Islanders got worse as well.

 

[I am not exposed]

I'd say the Islanders got worse as well.

Absolutely.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I'd say the Islanders got worse as well.

I'd reckon that they could emerge from this off season like the Avs did in the past season.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

The offseason has been fine so far. Only the problem is not buying out Haley and Mckenzie.

Every other team in the Atlantic has also taken significant strides forward....so it is still possible we don' t make the playoffs.

Since MacKenzie is over 35, being bought out doesn't help cap-wise and only saves 366k over the next two years... I don't think it's worth it, though I hope he only plays a limited amounts of games and is essentially our 13th (14th, 15th) forward.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Defense was pretty awful first half of the season and it seemed the team got it together the second half with much better goaltending. Yandle and Ekblad as a first pairing worries me. Too similar, too many turnovers. Matheson still has growing to do he makes a lot of bone headed plays and has bad positioning in front of the net, as talented as he may be. Kiselvich is an unknown. Third paring I’m ok with but other than that the D leaves a lot to be desired in my view.

First half of the season yeah, but when you retake a test you dont look at the first/worse grade! They got it together and the defense and goaltending werent the problem. We have a winning team as we left off. @Jakeybonz wouldnt that be considered doing something about having a winning team? Not breaking up our already winning team?

 

[CHGoalie27]

To be fair this is the same defense that a couple years ago with Tom Rowe at the helm, that a few posters didnt think would be even NHL quality, let alone that they would be even able to be taught.

The comments about no hockey IQ, no physical skills, are still funny to this day.

The same exact guys suffered a terrible season with TR, and are the exact same guys that with a new system under BB, now gives everyone one hope for the future.

I didnt think it was the players then. Anything that year was all cuz of the suits. I thought if the refs didn't blatantly funk us, we had a team that mightve been able to beat anyone in a 7 series...cant beat the refs tho...

 

[CHGoalie27]

The defense was still a liabilities during the streak. The first line and the special teams were carrying the team.

For the games we lost, I really can't say the defense or offense were more at fault than the other, and it was our goaltending that was the only group that didn't go a game without objectively holding their end...i sure wouldnt say so otherwise lol

 

[CHGoalie27]

I'd reckon that they could emerge from this off season like the Avs did in the past season.

Give Lou a minute and theyll be back in the mix

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Deserves an A in my book.

We have a team that was on a 100+ point pace since January 2018 and added another 25+ goal scorer.

For the first time in 5 years we had a summer of organizational consistency with minimal locker room and front office turnover.

Consistency is key.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

Deserves an A in my book.

We have a team that was on a 100+ point pace since January 2018 and added another 25+ goal scorer.

For the first time in 5 years we had a summer of organizational consistency with minimal locker room and front office turnover.

Consistency is key.

The summer isn't over yet

 

[pb1300]

You don't see multiple question marks? How about our first pairing? Which has two similar defensemen that are not at their best going against top competition. How about our shaky second pairing relying on the over commiting Matheson and an unproven KHLer. How about our goaltending? Luongo gets hurt, we rely on Reimer again which we know by now is a crap shoot. Our bottom 6? Comprised of small players who do show potential, but also comprised of washed up vets who shouldn't be playing (excluding Scevior) Bjugstad as a first line winger? Question mark in my view too. People are being blinded by the fact we got Hoffman. Barkov, Dadonov, Trocheck, Hoffman and sometimes Huberdeau are great, but outside of that plenty of question marks.

Who doesnt have question marks? Is the a perfect team in the league that you want to emulate? You can question every team in the East that is fighting for a playoff spot, so what makes it any different for us? You can question goalies for a good portion of the teams in the East, you can questions defensive pairings, cores, etc. for a good portion of the teams in the East, so what makes it any different for us?

What do you want Tallon to do? Overpay for De Hann, or any other of the overpriced Dmen that were available? He played it smart, got a top six winger for next to nothing, and added a Dman that could/should help us out. And with so much talent in our top six, you dont think that will benefit our bottom six at all? You think teams are going to stick their top pairing Dmen, or shutdown line, against our bottom six? There is talent in the bottom six, enough talent to take advantage of other teams bottom six. Borgstrom, Tippett, Malgin, Repo, Mamin, Sceviour, Vatrano...that is more than enough talent to fill in roles in the bottom six. And who are the washed up vets that are taking up spots, aside from Mack, and Haley (who probably will see less time)?

 

[Breaking Dadonov]

Who doesnt have question marks? Is the a perfect team in the league that you want to emulate? You can question every team in the East that is fighting for a playoff spot, so what makes it any different for us? You can question goalies for a good portion of the teams in the East, you can questions defensive pairings, cores, etc. for a good portion of the teams in the East, so what makes it any different for us?

What do you want Tallon to do? Overpay for De Hann, or any other of the overpriced Dmen that were available? He played it smart, got a top six winger for next to nothing, and added a Dman that could/should help us out. And with so much talent in our top six, you dont think that will benefit our bottom six at all? You think teams are going to stick their top pairing Dmen, or shutdown line, against our bottom six? There is talent in the bottom six, enough talent to take advantage of other teams bottom six. Borgstrom, Tippett, Malgin, Repo, Mamin, Sceviour, Vatrano...that is more than enough talent to fill in roles in the bottom six. And who are the washed up vets that are taking up spots, aside from Mack, and Haley (who probably will see less time)?

You think the Lightning have that many question marks? The Capitals? The Bruins? The Penguins? These are teams we should be comparing ourselves to. Teams that have cup aspirations. I mean if you want to make the playoffs and get bounced out in the first round like always I guess the roster is fine, but you cannot go far in this league unless you have solid contributors throughout the lineup. As it currently stands we don’t have a lot of guys I’m confident will contribute outside of the top 6 and we have nobody on defense that I feel comfortable going against the top teams best players.

 

[Breaking Dadonov]

Who doesnt have question marks? Is the a perfect team in the league that you want to emulate? You can question every team in the East that is fighting for a playoff spot, so what makes it any different for us? You can question goalies for a good portion of the teams in the East, you can questions defensive pairings, cores, etc. for a good portion of the teams in the East, so what makes it any different for us?

What do you want Tallon to do? Overpay for De Hann, or any other of the overpriced Dmen that were available? He played it smart, got a top six winger for next to nothing, and added a Dman that could/should help us out. And with so much talent in our top six, you dont think that will benefit our bottom six at all? You think teams are going to stick their top pairing Dmen, or shutdown line, against our bottom six? There is talent in the bottom six, enough talent to take advantage of other teams bottom six. Borgstrom, Tippett, Malgin, Repo, Mamin, Sceviour, Vatrano...that is more than enough talent to fill in roles in the bottom six. And who are the washed up vets that are taking up spots, aside from Mack, and Haley (who probably will see less time)?

Mack and Haley receiving less playing time...I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[5 Hole]

I feel good overall about the moves we’ve made. They’re safe. I realize we’re not there yet, so slow & steady seems to be the way.
I guess I’d go B so far, with A = mind blown.

 

[BeezKnees]

People forget that we have a young studly core under age 25 who are still growing and producing more every year. To say we have “the same team as last year” + Hoffman is selling us short. We’re going to improve just by being another year older and more experienced

 

[Gaebriel]

only Monday morning quarterbacks have the right to comment. No speculation is to be allowed.

Speculate all you want, no rules against it.

I was simply wondering out loud about how many drafts and offseasons speculated as A or B grade actually lead to winning seasons. Well, we know how many seasons end in April for this franchise, so... good job on the offseason?

I've lived in the DC area for like 15 years now and the Redskins have basically been a joke for about that long. The local sports radio guys play this clip of their general manager a few years back during an offseason when asked about that offseason saying "We're winning off the field, but we need to start winning on the field". They mock that clip over and over and over again to the point where they turned it into a regular segment of the show. It's hilarious and sad at the same time, well mostly hilarious. Google "winning off the field" if you want a good chuckle at some other fanbase's misfortune. Some people just eat that nonsense up though. It sure is a lot easier to try and sell the fanbase on a winning offseason when there are no scoreboards involved to prove you wrong. (Bruce Allen: Redskins are 'winning off the field')

I just listened to Dale Tallon on the Territory Talk podcast about how excited and happy they were with the draft. Has there ever been a season that they weren't? I don't know man, if you're not jaded at this point then honestly good for you.

For myself, it's hard to argue they got worse on paper since they basically haven't lost anyone significant (yet) but I think people around here are pretty heads down and blinders up on that Hoffman fiance situation. You sleep on that hand grenade at your own peril. In general I'm not going to defend "chemistry" over skill, but people can go too far the other direction downplaying the need for a good room. I just hope we haven't unlearned our 2016 lesson so quickly.