News Article: Gorges doesn't know why he was traded

[coolasprICE]

Youppi has a bigger role this year without Gorges around.

 

[rockjngo]

I think Josh Gorges is a marginal NHL defenseman. He's not fast, he doesn't hit, he isn't offensive. He doesn't move the puck well. He's not big. The only think Gorges has going for him is he blocks shots. Yeah he's friends with Carey Price but this isn't about politics, its about winning. Mike Weaver does what Gorges do for 1/3 the salary. For $3.9 million, Gorges is overpaid for a 5-6th defenseman.

Between Gorges and Emelin, I think I'll take Emelin. He's bigger, faster, meaner, and has a shot. Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn are NHL ready.

 

[Big Lurk]

Thank god you're not the ****ing GM. I puked.

Im at the hospital right now. (not for myself)

Lets just say you lightened the mood hahahaha.

 

[Runner77]

How in the world would Gorges invent this? Any chance he'd look awful if it wasn't real? And what did Bergevin say when he had a chance to talk about it? No. Gorges can't say what he wants in the media. 'Cause the ones who do say stupid stuff look awfully bad and are discredited. Seems to me Gorges wouldn't go that far. You add the Franson episode, and frankly, you do see a lot of improvisation in Bergevin's acts. And surely a lack of human interest. Yet, even in a business, I thought the human factor should count for something.

Cause a story doesn't usually have two sides? At the end of the day, what Gorges is saying is just his version. He may be exaggerating some facts, he is probably omitting others. That Bergevin chose not to engage on waging a war through the media means that he's wrong?

It has also been widely reported that Bergevin had no hand in tipping the media about Franson being involved in a trade with Gorges. How was a lack of human factor involved when the leak to the media involving the botched Leaf trade talks were attributed to Gorges' own entourage? What about the human factor in acting with discretion and as a professional in not discussing those private conversations had by a GM involving a player, with anyone else? Bergevin has assured repeatedly that at no time did he reveal any information regarding Gorges' trade talks to anyone -- why is Bergevin not entitled to the same benefit of the doubt that you are so adamantly and exclusively ascribing to Gorges?

 

[The Right Price]

I don't feel you have any obligation to explain to a traded player the reason or motives of the trade. MB probably just told JG "Josh, you've been traded to the Sabres, contact this and this person" that is IMO enough. No need to explain trade motives to a player that is not part of the team anymore.

 

[Kimota]

He's pretending he doesn't know why he was traded when it was made clear publicly in the media. He's just complaining about his fate indirectly. The guy is an hypocrite and I've been siding with this conclusion since the last lockout when he defended players' contracts and then when the season started turned on Subban for not signing right away. I just dislike his personality. He's a good hockey player and all, but I would never have beer with him.

So what's the reason.

 

[macavoy]

I think Josh Gorges is a marginal NHL defenseman. He's not fast, he doesn't hit, he isn't offensive. He doesn't move the puck well. He's not big. The only think Gorges has going for him is he blocks shots. Yeah he's friends with Carey Price but this isn't about politics, its about winning. Mike Weaver does what Gorges do for 1/3 the salary. For $3.9 million, Gorges is overpaid for a 5-6th defenseman.

Between Gorges and Emelin, I think I'll take Emelin. He's bigger, faster, meaner, and has a shot. Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn are NHL ready.

Your out to lunch. You are right though, there is nothing special about Gorges game and $3.9 is an overpayment for what he brings.

But Weaver can't play in a top 4 role like Gorges has for the past 3 seasons and he never will be on a top 4 role. Gorges is a legit #4 dman in this league. Gorges will play a top 4 role for probably 2-3 more years and transition to a #6 dman role after that. I guarantee you, his blocked shots will go down by 33% or more next year. He is smart enough to adapt his role for the teams needs. He will take on the role of a mentor for the Buffalo dcorps.

There isn't a pressing need for Buffalo to win, so there won't be a need for him to put his body on the line to stop a shot. If he stayed in Montreal, his career would have been shortened by the beating he put his body through.

It was a necessary trade though, we had too many left handed dman especially with Beaulieu and Tnner knocking on the door as lefties.

But we are going to have a hole on our PK next year. Emelin hasn't shown the positional awareness to succeed there and we shouldn't expect the rookies to carry that heavy of a workload and Weaver is a great #5 guy but I'm not comfortable sending him out on the first wave of a PP against Sid & Malkin, so your comment that weaver can replace him is ludacris and basically eliminates all rationality from your post.

 

[groovejuice]

I think Josh Gorges is a marginal NHL defenseman. He's not fast, he doesn't hit, he isn't offensive. He doesn't move the puck well. He's not big. The only think Gorges has going for him is he blocks shots. Yeah he's friends with Carey Price but this isn't about politics, its about winning. Mike Weaver does what Gorges do for 1/3 the salary. For $3.9 million, Gorges is overpaid for a 5-6th defenseman.

Between Gorges and Emelin, I think I'll take Emelin. He's bigger, faster, meaner, and has a shot. Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn are NHL ready.

Frankly, to call Gorges a "marginal" defenseman is absurd.

There's no doubt my mind that he's not a number 2, but it's hardly his fault that the coaches deployed him that way. He's at worst a 5, and would be a 4 on most teams.

Great penalty kill, usually good positioning, very aware tactically on D, a genuine team guy, wouldn't shy away from contact despite his size, and of course, the shot blocking.

A very useful player as a 4, 5, and special team guy.

The problem was, the only offense coming from the D, was from Subban and Markov. That meant overplaying Markov, which was a detriment in the playoffs.

Ultimately, Gorges had to go because he has Zero offensive upside. Can't pass well, can't shoot, but paradoxically looked good when pitching. Probably because he did it so seldom....

On a team with little offensive depth in the regulars, but plenty with the prospects, he just didn't fit.

IMO, if MB didn't step in, both Gorges and Frankie Boo would have seen PP time next season also.

I'm not privy to how most players train in the off season, but Josh never started a season with even slightly better offensive skills than the previous year.

Always a good guy, but inevitably had to be moved simply because he was too one dimensional. And at a penalizing cap hit, now was the time.

 

[voyageur]

Your out to lunch. You are right though, there is nothing special about Gorges game and $3.9 is an overpayment for what he brings.

But Weaver can't play in a top 4 role like Gorges has for the past 3 seasons and he never will be on a top 4 role. Gorges is a legit #4 dman in this league. Gorges will play a top 4 role for probably 2-3 more years and transition to a #6 dman role after that. I guarantee you, his blocked shots will go down by 33% or more next year. He is smart enough to adapt his role for the teams needs. He will take on the role of a mentor for the Buffalo dcorps.

There isn't a pressing need for Buffalo to win, so there won't be a need for him to put his body on the line to stop a shot. If he stayed in Montreal, his career would have been shortened by the beating he put his body through.

It was a necessary trade though, we had too many left handed dman especially with Beaulieu and Tnner knocking on the door as lefties.

But we are going to have a hole on our PK next year. Emelin hasn't shown the positional awareness to succeed there and we shouldn't expect the rookies to carry that heavy of a workload and Weaver is a great #5 guy but I'm not comfortable sending him out on the first wave of a PP against Sid & Malkin, so your comment that weaver can replace him is ludacris and basically eliminates all rationality from your post.

I think that Gorges' performance in the playoffs probably contributed to his trade. He was typically solid as a defenseman, making good reads, blocking shots, etc. But he was given the 2nd PP minutes with Emelin and looked lost out there, for the amount of money he is signed to, there needs to be some other intangibles that he brings besides leadership. The fact that Subban (and Gorges) looked rather average against the Rangers probably triggered the trade. I think the decision was made from an organizational standpoint to move a guy like Jared Tinordi into Gorges spot. Having a big hitter and physically tougher player like Tinordi to pair with Subban (think Orpik-Letang) will have positive effects on the superstar, one can hope. Beaulieu looked most comfortable playing his natural side, and resigning Weaver mitigates some of the defensive leadership lost. I expect that the losses of Gionta and Gorges will be offset by having the best players lead this team...Starting with Price, followed by Markov, Plekanec, and inevitably Subban. Maybe DD will even get an A down the road, he has a lot of good leadership qualities. I think Bergevin made the tough decision but improved the team as a whole, by allowing it to become more physical, while keeping the speedy transition game intact. Losing Gorges, Brière and Gionta in the offseason will signify that the Habs are changing their identity slightly.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I think that Gorges' performance in the playoffs probably contributed to his trade. He was typically solid as a defenseman, making good reads, blocking shots, etc. But he was given the 2nd PP minutes with Emelin and looked lost out there, for the amount of money he is signed to, there needs to be some other intangibles that he brings besides leadership. The fact that Subban (and Gorges) looked rather average against the Rangers probably triggered the trade. I think the decision was made from an organizational standpoint to move a guy like Jared Tinordi into Gorges spot. Having a big hitter and physically tougher player like Tinordi to pair with Subban (think Orpik-Letang) will have positive effects on the superstar, one can hope. Beaulieu looked most comfortable playing his natural side, and resigning Weaver mitigates some of the defensive leadership lost. I expect that the losses of Gionta and Gorges will be offset by having the best players lead this team...Starting with Price, followed by Markov, Plekanec, and inevitably Subban. Maybe DD will even get an A down the road, he has a lot of good leadership qualities. I think Bergevin made the tough decision but improved the team as a whole, by allowing it to become more physical, while keeping the speedy transition game intact. Losing Gorges, Brière and Gionta in the offseason will signify that the Habs are changing their identity slightly.

lets wait and see if he can get a regular spot before making him a 1st pairing D.

 

[habtastic]

I don't feel you have any obligation to explain to a traded player the reason or motives of the trade. MB probably just told JG "Josh, you've been traded to the Sabres, contact this and this person" that is IMO enough. No need to explain trade motives to a player that is not part of the team anymore.

The lack of obligation does not preclude the choice to approach a situation with a level of grace and class that I think was perhaps warranted in this case.

I want to believe that MB has been moving the organization in the right direction, and while I really think Gorges has been excoriated by many fans here as though he though he was his pal, Shea, I'm ok with the trade. (Though not fully convinced it will yield the intended results.)

We all know the bullet points:
- Great team guy, even if annoying as hell with his speeches. I loved his play, hated his overly dramatic furled eyebrows soapboxes.
- Shot blocking, highly-underrated defensive skills (retrieval of puck), going all out to make the play that many times changed the outcome of a game, etc. (BTW, the shot blocking was not a result of not having the puck, at least directly because of him-- he was very good at it)
- Was a leader in at the very least that he would do anything for the team and as previously mentioned, took it upon himself to help the young guys -- he wanted to help the Montreal Canadiens however possible.

The thing about building a successful organization that I hope MB is keeping in mind is that while you can be very good at contracts, moving assets, bringing along a new generation -- the Habs have two states of handling players: pure class and Gauthier mode.

I distinctly remember listening to both what the Hawks and Kings said after their respective cup wins, which is that from the top to bottom, the organization was close, and that closeness and trust (e.g., Gaborik being taken out by Carter and Richards) was critical to their success. This is while having a hard ass coach.

I think we're a very close-knit team, but I hope MB keeps it that way and doesn't fail to recognize what certain players have done for the Habs, and how this will affect the overall success.

Gorges in my books absolutely deserved to be treated as more than just a business decision. Trading is part of the game, but how you do it counts. Gauthier gets heat, but for some reason, (probably cuz people in this moment miss Cammy) MB can just toss a guy to the curb and it's fine.

Either way, interested to see how the team and D performs with the current plan.

 

[optimus2861]

No explanation? I wouldn't expect the team to provide one. Yeah it seems cold but at the end of the day it would be like firing somebody - better for it to just be a clean break. And who knows what the reason is? Maybe he wasn't respected in the room... would it make sense to tell him this?

This comment reminds me of the scenes in Moneyball where the GM makes his new assistant go through a mock "Tell me you've just traded me" session, and then later where the assistant actually does the deed for real with a just-traded player. In the run-through, the assistant tries playing nice and explaining the situation, but the GM just gives him argumentative and heart-tugging replies ("I just bought a house here! My kids are in school here!"). Having learned the lesson, the real thing goes down like a bullet to the head ("You've been traded to the Tigers. Here's the contact information for XXX in the Tigers travel office. They'll take care of the arrangements").

That's no doubt how it goes down most of the time in professional sports.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I think that Gorges' performance in the playoffs probably contributed to his trade. He was typically solid as a defenseman, making good reads, blocking shots, etc. But he was given the 2nd PP minutes with Emelin and looked lost out there, for the amount of money he is signed to, there needs to be some other intangibles that he brings besides leadership. The fact that Subban (and Gorges) looked rather average against the Rangers probably triggered the trade.

The Rangers had good checkers, and they zeroed in on PK Subban after he lit up Boston.

Gorges as his partner was zero relief once this started because he was no threat. PK needs a partner with at least some skill to use that open space that gets created when he's getting his leg humped by hounds. I hope Emelin on his natural LD side can be that guy.

Markov on the 2nd pairing also needs a better guy than Gorges, and Emelin off his side was never comfortable despite the Rus connection. Gilbert is fast (unlike Gorges), to help offset Markov's declining speed, and he's RD.

So basically MB rebalanced the D, Emelin gets a shot at LD, to make things happen with Subban. Markov gets a fast righty partner. I think the D will operate a lot better next season because of this but that left Josh out, can't have him on 3rd pairing paid 4 million. Weaver will be the vet depth anchor at 5-7, and two spots open for rookies. Looks like a plan to me.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

A good team player but his salary was too much going forward and the younger guys need to play. Shouldn't have been handled that way but I'm sure the Habs management team aren't happy it got leaked either

 

[HabsHockey*]

We should all be eternally grateful to Josh for not making us get Franson and fixing Bergy's possible mistake.

 

[Power Man]

" I mean, how many times does a player have to say Let's Go Boys to avoid being traded ? "

 

[Brainiac]

But we are going to have a hole on our PK next year. Emelin hasn't shown the positional awareness to succeed there and we shouldn't expect the rookies to carry that heavy of a workload and Weaver is a great #5 guy but I'm not comfortable sending him out on the first wave of a PP against Sid & Malkin, so your comment that weaver can replace him is ludacris and basically eliminates all rationality from your post.

Well, maybe Therrien will wisen up and play Subban on the PK. Problem solved.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

We should all be eternally grateful to Josh for not making us get Franson and fixing Bergy's possible mistake.

 

[Habaneros]

maybe the next trade will be Frazon for Subban...

 

[teh doors]

Frankly, to call Gorges a "marginal" defenseman is absurd.

There's no doubt my mind that he's not a number 2, but it's hardly his fault that the coaches deployed him that way. He's at worst a 5, and would be a 4 on most teams.

Great penalty kill, usually good positioning, very aware tactically on D, a genuine team guy, wouldn't shy away from contact despite his size, and of course, the shot blocking.

A very useful player as a 4, 5, and special team guy.

The problem was, the only offense coming from the D, was from Subban and Markov. That meant overplaying Markov, which was a detriment in the playoffs.

Ultimately, Gorges had to go because he has Zero offensive upside. Can't pass well, can't shoot, but paradoxically looked good when pitching. Probably because he did it so seldom....

On a team with little offensive depth in the regulars, but plenty with the prospects, he just didn't fit.

IMO, if MB didn't step in, both Gorges and Frankie Boo would have seen PP time next season also.

I'm not privy to how most players train in the off season, but Josh never started a season with even slightly better offensive skills than the previous year.

Always a good guy, but inevitably had to be moved simply because he was too one dimensional. And at a penalizing cap hit, now was the time.

Pretty much sums it all up great post

 

[habitue*]

Well, maybe Therrien will wisen up and play Subban on the PK. Problem solved.

I think lots of folks like you are obsessed by that. PK is already playing his regular shifts + 99% of the PP time. 24-25 minutes a game is more than plenty if you want the guy to perform over a 82-games schedule + Playoffs.

You would not want PK to kill penalties and have his foot broken by 100 mph slapshots, would you ? Now it's up to Tinordi, Weaver, Emelin and Gilbert to sacrifice their bodies during pk. Not everyone is a Chara or a Weber.

 

[Habnot]

Trying to start a phony controversy? Where have you been all those months? When people wondered what the heck happened when he was traded? When Gorges was said to be traded to the Leafs, a team he didn't have on his list? And that article that I didn't write that still shows that this was done in a strange way to say the least.

So what you're saying is that Gorges is lying? Yep...Bergevin told US why he did it. But clearly, he didn't address it to a guy who thought that he'd probably played his whole career with the Habs. Is it his fault to have taken this for granted? Surely. Part of the job to be traded. But that's not what it's at stake here. I will choose to believe that Bergevin didn't played that the best way. Either for Gorges and/or for the type of return we should have gotten.

1. Bergevin will never provide further detail but his MO is to dot all the i's and cross all the t's when dealing with players. Trades being fluid, once there was a possible Franson deal, then you check with player if he would waive his NT clause. Of course it just suits your narrative that MB mishandled the situation.

2. Getting rid of the contract and getting a 2nd rounder is very good return. Keep in mind that MB clearly wanted to get rid of Gorges's contract - even negotiating with 2 division rivals.

 

[Kubus]

To be honest I think you guys are better off without him. I'm happy we didn't get him.

I know he is a decent player, but I have always got this more important than everyone else attitude from him. Outside of the cap, maybe it was because he acts like it's his team.

I personally started to dislike the guy when I heard what he did to Hamrlik during the CBA negotiations. Hamarlik came to talk to him, in private, because Josh was a union rep. Instead of keeping it private Josh went telling people about it.

“Because of his conversations with Josh (Habs NHLPA rep Josh Gorges), some of the things he’s said to him in private conversations and Josh has been just like, ‘Is this guy serious?’ We couldn’t believe what his stance was on certain things,” said Cole.

I don't know but that seems like a ****** move, to try and bully a guy to his side. Not a guy I personally think very highly of.

 

[HCH]

In the end it was probably a lot of little things that added up. There isn't a really a lot here that is earth shattering but Gorges is a emotional guy and wears his heart on his sleeve. You can see it in the way he handles all situations and there is nothing wrong with that. But life goes on. Gorges will be fine. He sounds like a good guy who has a pretty good contract and will have to worry very little about the future.

We should all be so fortunate.

 

[Ginu]

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/sports/article_3cecb8fa-1168-11e4-ac77-0017a43b2370.html







At one point, that trade seemed to me to be taken directly through Pierre Gauthier's way of doing business....And frankly...that's not a good point. Wouldn't you at least talk to your guy....prevent him of what's happening...explain to him your thought process? Shouldn't it be the human thing to do? I really didn't like how they handled Josh's departure, even if at one point, I thought he was expendable.

Because he makes $4m as a 5/6th guy playing in a #2 role. I think Weaver opened their eyes that he was being severely overpaid.