News Article: GMJR HAS RESIGNED

[KIRK]

Ya, I highly suspect this is the case. I know for sure upper mgmt expected JR to be around for another season or two minimum... so this is all really weird as hell.

A guy like JR doesn’t just suddenly quit and then hint he over stayed his welcome,

Looks like the brass want to go down with the ship and hope these guys can bail water well for a couple seasons..

Jiggy, I'm highly dubious ownership told JR he wasn't allowed to trade Letang, if only because I know, with ownership's green light, it got really close with Florida in December 2017 and then there was more casual exploration of possibilities in the summers of 2018 and 2019.

I can't speak to the summers, but my understanding of what happened with Florida is they were offering a player from list A, a player from list B, and a first, and JR and ownership were on the same page that the deal had to be for two players on list A (pretty sure their big 3 weren't on list A but guys like Trotchek and Dadonov were).

So, I don't think Letang was off limits.

What I'd wonder-- IF LETANG IS THE REASON-- is if the disconnect wasn't over whether Letang could be traded but instead over his value (which is what nuked the deal to Tampa years ago, if memory serves).

Anyway, it's a subtle difference, but in this speculated scenario, I highly doubt the idea of trading Letang is the issue.

 

[LOGiK]

yeah, if his plan was for a major shakeup 7 games in, I’m glad he resigned...

You don't trade f***ing Letang 7 games into the season....

What kind of idiotic move is that, especially when half the other defensemen are injured long'er' term.

I couldn't be happier about EXGMJR and his crusty ass walking out of here before he got his said crusty ass fired.

 

[KIRK]

@Mr Jiggyfly . . . one other thing, in this Letang scenario . . . it's easy to believe that ownership's valuation of Rutherford's judgment of what a player is worth is a little different now than it was when that Florida deal got close in December 2017.

I'd think they'd be a little more hesitant as to Rutherford's judgment vis-a-vis 'the right return' in a Letang trade.

This isn't to say who's right, but . . .

I could see this kind of 'doubt' in theory triggering a 'well, if you don't trust me by now then I'm out' type of reaction (the fuse, if you will, for having to chuck Karmanos, who he viewed as a son, the Tallon rumor, the general roughness of operating in a COVID world, etc).

EDIT: This one, the 'he wanted to make a coaching move and ownership said they're not eating that coin' theory, and the general 'little things added up and it just stopped being fun' theory seem like the three most probable.

 

[Peat]

Jiggy, I'm highly dubious ownership told JR he wasn't allowed to trade Letang, if only because I know, with ownership's green light, it got really close with Florida in December 2017 and then there was more casual exploration of possibilities in the summers of 2018 and 2019.

I can't speak to the summers, but my understanding of what happened with Florida is they were offering a player from list A, a player from list B, and a first, and JR and ownership were on the same page that the deal had to be for two players on list A (pretty sure their big 3 weren't on list A but guys like Trotchek and Dadonov were).

So, I don't think Letang was off limits.

What I'd wonder-- IF LETANG IS THE REASON-- is if the disconnect wasn't over whether Letang could be traded but instead over his value (which is what nuked the deal to Tampa years ago, if memory serves).

Anyway, it's a subtle difference, but in this speculated scenario, I highly doubt the idea of trading Letang is the issue.

This makes sense to me. I'd add timing as a possible factor. You want to trade Letang with plenty of time to bed in a replacement? Okay. You want to trade him 7 games into a season, which is shortened so still not much time to bed in (I guess the same as December tbf) with pretty much no defence due to fitness issues? That's a bit different.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Hey I'm all for the trading of Malkin / Letang.... which of course comes with a big gigantic BUT... you better be getting some choice class back man......

For Geno.... I think his full value is gone and never returning and not to mention he's russian with already winning everything he possibly ever could in the NHL.... pretty much zero left for him to do which translates to eventual just not giving a f***.

I'm more for trading Geno than I am Letang.... losing Letang leaves a gaping hole that could ruin the team (or not of course). Losing Malkin well.... some may not even notice malkin disappearing (again).

Not sure I trusted EXGMJR to get that done properly... maybe EXGMJR said to owners 'I'm sending out geno // tang for '''crappy return''' and hence disagreement -> pouty faces -> resignations

You don't trust throw away a player like malkin after everything he's done to win 3 cups.

 

[KIRK]

This makes sense to me. I'd add timing as a possible factor. You want to trade Letang with plenty of time to bed in a replacement? Okay. You want to trade him 7 games into a season, which is shortened so still not much time to bed in (I guess the same as December tbf) with pretty much no defence due to fitness issues? That's a bit different.

But, it's not about who's right. Not with respect to JR.

As I just noted in my follow up post, the issue is TRUST.

If they're questioning JR's evaluation of what players are worth more closely now than when things got close with Florida in December 2017, then I think the natural human reaction is 'if you don't trust me by now then why am I here'.

Then you add this big cherry to the beneath the surface things like his age, what it's like operating in a COVID world, Karmanos, the Tallon speculation, and who knows what else, and the Letang theory certainly makes sense in this context.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Make way for super GM for life David Morehouse!

 

[BHD]

Read this in the piece from Rossi and Yohe on The Athletic...

Also, Rutherford balked at an internal push to bring on Dale Tallon in some capacity, team and league sources said.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Jiggy, I'm highly dubious ownership told JR he wasn't allowed to trade Letang, if only because I know, with ownership's green light, it got really close with Florida in December 2017 and then there was more casual exploration of possibilities in the summers of 2018 and 2019.

I can't speak to the summers, but my understanding of what happened with Florida is they were offering a player from list A, a player from list B, and a first, and JR and ownership were on the same page that the deal had to be for two players on list A (pretty sure their big 3 weren't on list A but guys like Trotchek and Dadonov were).

So, I don't think Letang was off limits.

What I'd wonder-- IF LETANG IS THE REASON-- is if the disconnect wasn't over whether Letang could be traded but instead over his value (which is what nuked the deal to Tampa years ago, if memory serves).

Anyway, it's a subtle difference, but in this speculated scenario, I highly doubt the idea of trading Letang is the issue.

2017 would have been the perfect time to pull a 58 trade off, maximum return for the player and able to get a haul for him. Non-moves like that and subsequent bone-head moves, now leave us in this horrible position of a fringe playoff team that is a mess, and no assets to fix it or for the future. The Steelers made a very similar non-move when they didn’t trade AB & Bell preemptively before that all went to shit too. Sometimes it’s the moves you DON’T make that hurt more than the moves you do...

 

[LOGiK]

You don't trust throw away a player like malkin after everything he's done to win 3 cups.

Exactly... you get a return because life goes on after malkin.

Anyone think he will take a significant drop in salary to stay in pitt?

I really don't know what his intentions are after this contract is up.

 

[Fogel]

I find the range of reactions interesting. If the roles were reversed and a player who had one year left in a longer term contract, say a David Krejci or Malkin/Rust/Letang next year, I think a lot of people would be more upset and questioning the professionalism of the player quitting/retiring while under contract.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Read this in the piece from Rossi and Yohe on The Athletic...

 

[MrBurghundy]

I haven't seen a list of potential candidates yet anywhere.

Who could we realistically be looking at here?

 

[MrBurghundy]

I find the range of reactions interesting. If the roles were reversed and a player who had one year left in a longer term contract, say a David Krejci or Malkin/Rust/Letang next year, I think a lot of people would be more upset and questioning the professionalism of the player quitting/retiring while under contract.

I mean... Players request trades all the time.

 

[LOGiK]

2017 would have been the perfect time to pull a 58 trade off, maximum return for the player and able to get a haul for him. Non-moves like that and subsequent bone-head moves, now leave us in this horrible position of a fringe playoff team that is a mess, and no assets to fix it or for the future. The Steelers made a very similar non-move when they didn’t trade AB & Bell preemptively before that all went to shit too. Sometimes it’s the moves you DON’T make that hurt more than the moves you do...

When did he have his stroke, 2015?

I think that stroke really killed a 'maximum return' in moving tang.

 

[BHD]

Not advocating for him, but I can see it happening.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Not advocating for him, but I can see it happening.

I have no clue who they’d hire

There won’t be a shortage of applicants that’s for sure.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

So help me if this was over hiring Dale ****ing Tallon and results in him being our GM.


Just slam that window now in that case. @Jesse nailed it as usual.

 

[Extra Texture]

Whatever negative opinions I hold of JR are thoroughly wiped out by fully believing that the Penguins were going to waste Sid & Geno by only winning that single Cup early in their careers. He took over an organization I was convinced was in desperate need of a teardown and rebuild outside of Sid/Geno...and instead we won Cups, multiple, in rapid succession on the heels of the players he acquired.

Whatever we've pissed away since were lost opportunities. Those Cups? Those were tangible results most fan bases would kill for, and underselling JR's role in those Cups would be somewhere between folly and ignorant.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for JR and the way he's handled himself throughout his career. He drives me crazy at times, but I'll always remember the success and I'll always remember the misery that preceded that success.

If I've learned anything in my time as a fan, it's to not assume success. That goes on a macro team level and a micro individual level...how many next great GMs have turned out to be miserable in this league? How "thrilled" were all of us when we hired JR in the first place?

Well said.

The man has been far from perfect over the whole tenure of his time here. He's made plenty of questionable decisions, like any GM would've. Especially one that was wheeling and dealing as much as he was.

But for me the bottom line is that the Shero model of keeping the team almost entirely the same for years, and making changes around the fringes or at TDLs to get us over the hump, was a failure and wasted the best years of this core. When Rutherford sat down and saw that big pile of chips, he started placing bets and taking chances. It took a while to get it right, but for a time there he couldnt lose. And in the process he not only helped elevate this franchise to a special place in the NHL pantheon, helped solidify the legacy of our stars forever.

Like you say, the B2B cups were something most any other franchise would kill for. Or would happily take in exchange for the next 20 years in the gutter. And it wasn't just winning them, IMO. It was the fact that, for 18 months, this team was like a juggernaut that nobody in the league could stop. We had the kind of skill, speed, grit and determination that would make any fan proud, and it was done with (of course) our stars, backed by a bunch of hardworking WBS boys with the right attitude, and supported by "cast offs" who were sometimes derided by other fans (Phil, Schultz, Daley)

Either way, it was a heck of a ride. The last few years of futility and bad contracts was a small price to pay for the highs of those Spring 2016-Summer 2017.

 

[TKalltheTime]

When did he have his stroke, 2015?

I think that stroke really killed a 'maximum return' in moving tang.

He was already back and playing for like 1.5 seasons showing he was “fine” all things considered. If you’re using that “LOGik” you don’t get any max value back on any player because they too could have some freak medical incident one day...

 

[EightyOne]

He was already back and playing for like 1.5 seasons showing he was “fine” all things considered. If you’re using that “LOGik” you don’t get any max value back on any player because they too could have some freak medical incident one day...

True

Every team the league would take Letang right now. Every. Single. One. Especially at this cap hit.

What they'd give up is the question

 

[SEALBound]

Jim Rutherford's shocking Penguins exit and ensuing chaos – The Athletic

Cliff notes

Rutherford didn't consider doing it until Tuesday, but told Morehouse he was resigning Tuesday evening
Mario is stunned
Rutherford agrees timing is weird but "It’s important to me to leave the Penguins on a positive note, and that’s what I’m going to do. I’m not going to get into the details of the past couple of days.”"
Rutherford's said the last 11 months have been brutal but that's not why he quit, and that while he'd been discussing the future with his wife, he hadn't expected to do it now
Full of praise for Mario, Burkle, Sid
Said relationship with Morehouse is good
Morehouse said the resignation wasn't over a disagreement over personnel

However

Rutherford wasn't solely behind firing Karmanos, or letting the assistants go
He'd also balked at the idea of bringing in Tallon

Rutherford says that re Skalde's case, he brought that to HR "immediately" on learning and that to his knowledge, they handled it as well as they could
Ownership expected Rutherford to do at least another season

Thanks for that recap. Couple 'reading between the lines' thoughts:

Mario is still hands off which is both good and bad.

There was absolutely a building tension on some subject. Perhaps Letang, maybe coaches, who knows. If Morehouse goes out of his way to say its not about a disagreement with personnel, a disagreement over personnel was absolutely a factor.

Read this in the piece from Rossi and Yohe on The Athletic...

Reminds me of that scene in the movie Contact where Ellie is talking with Hadden over the key to decoding the message. "There are many governments, business interest, even religious leaders that would like to see me depart this earth...and I'll grant them their wish soon enough..but before I do I wish to make a small contribution, a final gesture of goodwill to the people of this little planet whom have given...from whom I've taken so much"

"There are several fans, players, even owners that would like to see me depart this league...and I'll grant them their wish soon enough, but before I do I wish to make a small contribution, a final gesture of goodwill to the fans of this little team whom have given...from whom I've taken so much."

Tallon...no way. My fear is that they will immediately go to him and that concerns me.

 

[OswaldBates]

Read this in the piece from Rossi and Yohe on The Athletic...

meet the Next GM Dale Tallon

 

[OswaldBates]

Thanks for that recap. Couple 'reading between the lines' thoughts:

Mario is still hands off which is both good and bad.

There was absolutely a building tension on some subject. Perhaps Letang, maybe coaches, who knows. If Morehouse goes out of his way to say its not about a disagreement with personnel, a disagreement over personnel was absolutely a factor.



Reminds me of that scene in the movie Contact where Ellie is talking with Hadden over the key to decoding the message. "There are many governments, business interest, even religious leaders that would like to see me depart this earth...and I'll grant them their wish soon enough..but before I do I wish to make a small contribution, a final gesture of goodwill to the people of this little planet whom have given...from whom I've taken so much"

"There are several fans, players, even owners that would like to see me depart this league...and I'll grant them their wish soon enough, but before I do I wish to make a small contribution, a final gesture of goodwill to the fans of this little team whom have given...from whom I've taken so much."

Tallon...no way. My fear is that they will immediately go to him and that concerns me.

Morehouse is Burkle's Lapdog

 

[SomeDude]

So help me if this was over hiring Dale ****ing Tallon and results in him being our GM.


Just slam that window now in that case. @Jesse nailed it as usual.

If Tallon was the reason, it is just buffoonery at an amazing level. Like you said, if he gets the job now...it's going to be a long and miserable 5-6 years. Based on Morehouses comments of wanting an experienced GM with championship experience like when they hired JR, it's 1000% going to be Tallon.