Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part V

[Tuna99]

How many markets do you think are sitting around in August makings excuses to not buy tickets over a couple of RFA’s ?

The excuse that two RFA’s (with a team wayyyy below the floor) is the reason why someone isn’t buying tickets is the reason Ottawa has league low attendance.

We keep blaming someone else and the seats stay empty.

how do the fans take any blame for players not being signed.

this is weird logic. Do you blame the guys who ride the O-train for the O-train not working or do you blame the people that run the O-train for the O-train not working.

remember this is the team that gave up on it’s own self and threw a trap up and said “this is the best we can do and we have hot dogs” - the Sens did that not the fans, they quit on themselves after years of bad management. The tarp was a physical manifestation of a team that lost its mojo in its own itself. That guy from Toronto came in, took a look around and said “we can’t do this, we aren’t capable, we need a tarp to tarp over our lack of connection to this market and our inability to sell tickets in Canada and Hockey Country” and the owner agreed.

say what you want about the Rangers cleaning house last year after they appealed to an outside source for help instead of asking their locker room to solve it, but you have to honour the mentality that the owner had in not folding and saying if this team has a quitters mentality then everyone is gone” - that’s a mindset that sells tickets because it says we’re engaged and we’re going to play hockey the way fans want it. No quit

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

How is that what you take away from that post?

Overpromising and under-delivering to sell tickets is one of the biggest flaws of this team's ownership and management and you seem to find an excuse (if you can even call it that) every time.

Right. The ownership and management team should be more like the Leafs and Canadiens management of the past 15 years. Building cup teams and winning.

 

[Sweatred]

how do the fans take any blame for players not being signed.

My bad… I forgot that this community doesn’t think gate revenue supports our hockey team.

In my alternate crazy world the team with the worst fan support gets gets the least spent on its roster … I know .. it’s crazy.

 

[thinkwild]

In my alternate crazy world, the team with the most deplorable ineffective owner gets the least fan support, i know .. its crazy.

Its even sadder cause Melnyk, when he first came here, with fans upset at the cheapness and debt of the previous owner, he won over the fanbase. His public messaging that he will be focused on building a winner was manna for the masses. Fan engagement went way up along with an exciting young team. But his messaging, that the owner will do his part, contributed millions of dollars to his bottom line.

Then …

So of course now the default expectation is that he will pull that football away again. Not for brilliant strategic reasons, but because of his debt and marketing ineptness.

He could have made the case that the tear down was the tough but necessary team building decision. In fact I made that case here. Although I didn’t actually believe in it, I still wanted to go forward with our stars. But if someone I trusted and respected explained that this was the best necessary decision for this market, I and many others could be brought along even if somewhat grudgingly. But he lied to try and trick us.

So if he lives up to his threats made in the press about Ottawa being used to developing players for the rest of the league, about spending to the floor, about managements focus on eking out revenue for debt repayment rather than focusing on winning, if that is seen as what is happening, he will be a long way from his initial days when fans loved him.

If he yanks that football away again, it will no doubt do tremendous damage to the value of the franchise. And he knows how to fix that. Attempting to threaten and shame fans not being it. That has no track record of success anywhere that i know of, especially in Effective Management 101 textbooks.

 

[Tuna99]

My bad… I forgot that this community doesn’t think gate revenue supports our hockey team.

In my alternate crazy world the team with the worst fan support gets gets the least spent on its roster … I know .. it’s crazy.

Riggghhhhht. Most arenas with a team that is continuously the worst in the league have half empty arenas. Before Chara arrived in Boston they were getting 9000 a game and Ottawa was sold out for 5 straight years.

You’re making excuses for mismanagement. The Sens had a Cup finalist one year and went straight into the Heatlwy disaster and Ottawa’s been a bit of a joke franchise since. That’s not on the fans, that’s on ownership so I put the blame there and you put it on fans.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

My bad… I forgot that this community doesn’t think gate revenue supports our hockey team.

In my alternate crazy world the team with the worst fan support gets gets the least spent on its roster … I know .. it’s crazy.

As a counterpoint to this line of thinking.... consider the Leafs during the Harold Ballard era. They continually sold out, yet always sucked on the ice. Frequently in the media and in discussions with some fans you would hear the argument that because the fans kept going, Ballard had no motivation to improve the team. So that era of putrid hockey was also the fans fault.....

 

[Sweatred]

As a counterpoint to this line of thinking.... consider the Leafs during the Harold Ballard era. They continually sold out, yet always sucked on the ice. Frequently in the media and in discussions with some fans you would hear the argument that because the fans kept going, Ballard had no motivation to improve the team. So that era of putrid hockey was also the fans fault.....

Ballard was an owner who kept a lot profits for himself (I believe) …. Ours doesn’t.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Waaaay to much overthinking going on in here, but it’s a sign of the times now soooo ‘eves…

In the olden days fans were able to enjoy pro sports because they were never given glimpses into the behind the scenes financing that was filled with shadiness, exploitation, and as always, the rich getting richer….

Now like a bunch of kids at the sideshow we have lifted the tent curtain a bit at the back and are sneaking a peek (we chose the wrong tent in my opinion lol).

Brady needs to get paid. Not only is he already wearing the moniker of leading his teammates, and dragging them, into battle every night, but he and his crew have the opportunity to be the ones who drag the Ottawa fanbase back into the arena, and back into the battle as well, sixth man style.

The way this team plays is infectious beyond the bench, gets the blood fired up, makes people want to be in the building when we go to ‘war’.

This is where we’re at in my opinion, and why Brady is sooo much more than the sum of his parts. He may not be the hero everyone wants for the Sens (ok just two guys), but he is absolutely the hero that this listless team and fanbase (not a diss) needs.

Don’t f*** this up EM, it could make you a hero vicariously down the road, or it could literally get you run out of town.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Right. The ownership and management team should be more like the Leafs and Canadiens management of the past 15 years. Building cup teams and winning.

That’s not what I mean by overpromising.

Telling potential season ticket holders about a long-term contract for Brady and not following through is, same with promising that you’ll spend.

 

[aragorn]

How many markets do you think are sitting around in August makings excuses to not buy tickets over a couple of RFA’s ?

The excuse that two RFA’s (with a team wayyyy below the floor) is the reason why someone isn’t buying tickets is the reason Ottawa has league low attendance.

We keep blaming someone else and the seats stay empty.

Fans always want more without having any idea on the owners finances & often blame the owner for the team not being better. But we have seen with a number of franchises that money doesn't necessarily buy you a championship, but it helps. It takes a long time to build a SC winner & during that time while your good young players are developing you need to re-sign them & at the same time you need mentors & experienced guys to show them the ropes. That is where this team is at now & IMO now is not the time to spend money, but a time to allow the young guys to continue to develop & spend the money later once you know you are only a few pieces away from taking the next step. This owner has also not helped himself or endeared himself to the fan base with some of his comments & fights with city hall.

However, I agree with you that unless this fanbase starts to support this team financially it could be just a matter of time before this owner decides to move & take the team with it although for some reason some people think that's impossible. We have seen teams move before, so it's not impossible, but success could also change all that & get fans to come back especially when the football team isn't very good either. I think this team is on the verge of becoming a very good team soon within a yr or two & that should be the time when they know what they have & what they need to take another step & spend the money to achieve that. I think he will do that, but the fans have to come out especially during a playoff run to assure this team stays here otherwise what would be the point of having a playoff team & yet losing money here.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

That’s not what I mean by overpromising.

Telling potential season ticket holders about a long-term contract for Brady and not following through is, same with promising that you’ll spend.

Brady will still likely be signed to a long term deal.

 

[aragorn]

how do the fans take any blame for players not being signed.

this is weird logic. Do you blame the guys who ride the O-train for the O-train not working or do you blame the people that run the O-train for the O-train not working.

remember this is the team that gave up on it’s own self and threw a trap up and said “this is the best we can do and we have hot dogs” - the Sens did that not the fans, they quit on themselves after years of bad management. The tarp was a physical manifestation of a team that lost its mojo in its own itself. That guy from Toronto came in, took a look around and said “we can’t do this, we aren’t capable, we need a tarp to tarp over our lack of connection to this market and our inability to sell tickets in Canada and Hockey Country” and the owner agreed.

say what you want about the Rangers cleaning house last year after they appealed to an outside source for help instead of asking their locker room to solve it, but you have to honour the mentality that the owner had in not folding and saying if this team has a quitters mentality then everyone is gone” - that’s a mindset that sells tickets because it says we’re engaged and we’re going to play hockey the way fans want it. No quit

It's not that long ago when the Sens went to the conference finals & in that run people were not showing up for playoff games. Ironically it was with those same Rangers who went on to the finals & lost. This team can't survive without gate receipts & if this city wants an NHL franchise people will have to buy tickets & go to games otherwise the team could be gone. We can't wait for the owner to sell, he may never sell for another 20 yrs, who knows?

 

[JD1]

It's not that long ago when the Sens went to the conference finals & in that run people were not showing up for playoff games. Ironically it was with those same Rangers who went on to the finals & lost. This team can't survive without gate receipts & if this city wants an NHL franchise people will have to buy tickets & go to games otherwise the team could be gone. We can't wait for the owner to sell he may never sell for another 20 yrs, who knows?

Gate revenues need to improve, no question

I'm hoping with limited seating due to covid that we're sold out every game until the building is fully open

 

[Wondercarrot]

That’s not what I mean by overpromising.

Telling potential season ticket holders about a long-term contract for Brady and not following through is, same with promising that you’ll spend.

exactly. Just shut up. A good starting point would be under promising and over delivering - properly setting expectations is a pretty basic communications strategy.

 

[Sweatred]

Fans always want more without having any idea on the owners finances & often blame the owner for the team not being better. But we have seen with a number of franchises that money doesn't necessarily buy you a championship, but it helps. It takes a long time to build a SC winner & during that time while your good young players are developing you need to re-sign them & at the same time you need mentors & experienced guys to show them the ropes. That is where this team is at now & IMO now is not the time to spend money, but a time to allow the young guys to continue to develop & spend the money later once you know you are only a few pieces away from taking the next step. This owner has also not helped himself or endeared himself to the fan base with some of his comments & fights with city hall.

However, I agree with you that unless this fanbase starts to support this team financially it could be just a matter of time before this owner decides to move & take the team with it although for some reason some people think that's impossible. We have seen teams move before, so it's not impossible, but success could also change all that & get fans to come back especially when the football team isn't very good either. I think this team is on the verge of becoming a very good team soon within a yr or two & that should be the time when they know what they have & what they need to take another step & spend the money to achieve that. I think he will do that, but the fans have to come out especially during a playoff run to assure this team stays here otherwise what would be the point of having a playoff team & yet losing money here.

I agree …

 

[Sweatred]

exactly. Just shut up. A good starting point would be under promising and over delivering - properly setting expectations is a pretty basic communications strategy.

Sillyness… no body should be worried that Geener won’t sign Brady … his window to fulfil your “promises” hasn’t passed … no need to whine here that it has .

You’re in non position to muzzle him … he’s the owner of the team who needs fans to buy tickets. He’s allowed to share reality with you where this franchise will be with league low attendance if he wants to.

Dorion knows his budget is tied to ticket sales. His ability to keep all these guys is dependant on variable gate receipts.

 

[JungleBeat]

Convinced my friend to not renew his season tickets. Melnyk and Dorion need to show the fans they’re serious.

 

[JackieDaytona]

Fans are consumers, not angel investors. It’s an idiotic and misguided business plan to expect fans to put their money down when the owner is not willing to do the same. If they want a full arena and profits from the gate, the team needs to invest in the product they are selling.

Ice a winning team and the fans will come, not the other way around.

 

[JD1]

Convinced my friend to not renew his season tickets. Melnyk and Dorion need to show the fans they’re serious.

You must be proud

 

[Wondercarrot]

Sillyness… no body should be worried that Geener won’t sign Brady … his window to fulfil your “promises” hasn’t passed … no need to whine here that it has .

You’re in non position to muzzle him … he’s the owner of the team who needs fans to buy tickets. He’s allowed to share reality with you where this franchise will be with league low attendance if he wants to.

Dorion knows his budget is tied to ticket sales. His ability to keep all these guys is dependant on variable gate receipts.

said the son of the man who missed the point. Bravo. Very on brand for you.

 

[Sweatred]

Convinced my friend to not renew his season tickets. Melnyk and Dorion need to show the fans they’re serious.

0.0006 % closer to moving Brady.

 

[Sweatred]

said the son of the man who missed the point. Bravo. Very on brand for you.

I think your oblivious to the things you whine about here… your posts are full complaining about these off season broken promises and begging the owner to shut up.

 

[JD1]

Fans are consumers, not angel investors. It’s an idiotic and misguided business plan to expect fans to put their money down when the owner is not willing to do the same. If they want a full arena and profits from the gate, the team needs to invest in the product they are selling.

Ice a winning team and the fans will come, not the other way around.

I agree with your first paragraph. Completely.

The second statement is off base though. There's 32 teams. Notionally 16 winning more than they're losing. The second statement reeks of bandwagon or fairweather fans or whatever term you'd like. I do agree attendance will be better in winning seasons but this team needs to up its low tide attendance....and they have a roll to play in achieving that

 

[Sweatred]

Fans are consumers, not angel investors. It’s an idiotic and misguided business plan to expect fans to put their money down when the owner is not willing to do the same. If they want a full arena and profits from the gate, the team needs to invest in the product they are selling.

Ice a winning team and the fans will come, not the other way around.

Like in the ECF ?

Or how about league average ticket prices and attendance for league average spending ? Feels fair to me.

 

[Sweatred]

I agree with your first paragraph. Completely.

The second statement is off base though. There's 32 teams. Notionally 16 winning more than they're losing. The second statement reeks of bandwagon or fairweather fans or whatever term you'd like. I do agree attendance will be better in winning seasons but this team needs to up its low tide attendance....and they have a roll to play in achieving that

I like it ! Dorion will prob sign Bath and Brady without any problem this year but the next group of RFA’s will take some mutual commitment from ownership AND the fan base.