Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part 2

[Tuna99]

Obviously we are a last place team this year. Next year we should be close to dead last as well. That will be half a decade of last/near last place finishes. Man time goes by fast. I said when this first started to expect at least a decade of darkness. I fully stand by that.

Sadly you’re right. the team has been aimless since Muckler was Fired. No stability in coaching or player retention, no firm plan for the team it’s been very impulsive, of course ownership is a nightmare, PR has been horrible and the fans have checked out.

and watching this team now you see some pieces, but a serious lack of skill and creativity, not enough speed and skill and some things to like in the young kids but I have fears they are building a team that just won’t have the speed and skill to compete, try hard team with not enough magic to make it happen

 

[bert]

Poorly evaluated? These were low risk trades. Gudbranson cost a fifth, J. Brown a fourth and they got paid a second round pick to take Paquette/Coburn. If these were above average players they would have never been traded for that little.

This whole thing was an exercise to see if they could buy low on some players and hopefully recoup better assets later in the season. J. Brown might be someone used for expansion draft exposure which has value in and of itself.

Saying they evaluated poorly, in this context, is honestly ridiculous. It'd be like saying your got ripped off because you paid a dollar for something.

This is the worst analogy I've ever read. It's funny you bring up context because you are ignoring all of it.

 

[Micklebot]

This is the worst analogy I've ever read. It's funny you bring up context because you are ignoring all of it.

It's funny, during the offseason, the acquisition of these vets was often justified with we have to insolate the kids or we'll become the Edm Oilers.

Well, we are currently on pace for the worst season in the history of the franchise, and in contention for ousting the capitals for worst season in the history of the league.

I think well turn things around to some degree and not achieve that dubious distinction, and the uniqueness of the all canadian division with no games outside the division certainly puts an asterisk on the season, but the reality is we aren't sheltering anyone.

The team absolutely misjudged what the vets would bring and we are seeing the results.

 

[BloodRedArmy]

 

[Burrowsaurus]

View attachment 395508

This like me saying “ugh why don’t I just go by a Lamborghini and a Bentley”.

no cheddah

 

[Imnotagoodposter]

We missed our chance to have McDonald’s buy the team during the hamburglar run. Imagine walking under glorious Golden Arches at the Big McNugget Mac Stadium downtown

 

[senswon]

We missed our chance to have McDonald’s buy the team during the hamburglar run. Imagine walking under glorious Golden Arches at the Big McNugget Mac Stadium downtown

Logged in to like this.

 

[Stylizer1]

We missed our chance to have McDonald’s buy the team during the hamburglar run. Imagine walking under glorious Golden Arches at the Big McNugget Mac Stadium downtown

Just think if Nacho's would have bought the team. Re-brand?

 

[Beech]

Sadly you’re right. the team has been aimless since Muckler was Fired. No stability in coaching or player retention, no firm plan for the team it’s been very impulsive, of course ownership is a nightmare, PR has been horrible and the fans have checked out.

and watching this team now you see some pieces, but a serious lack of skill and creativity, not enough speed and skill and some things to like in the young kids but I have fears they are building a team that just won’t have the speed and skill to compete, try hard team with not enough magic to make it happen

between 1994 and 2003, they could do not wrong in drafting. Alfie, 6th round, Fisher, Neil 2/6 rounds. A trade that netted Chara and Spezza. Late 1st that were Hossa, Havlat, Kelly 3rd round.

So much talent was coming in, that from 98-08 the abundance of talent may have masked issues. And so, even bad coaching or bad trades, etc. were not seen.

By 04, the dust had settled, their drafting became average to below average and now we see the flaws.

Had Brian lee become another Anton Volchenkov. Had Jim O'Brien become another Martin Havlat. Had Jared Cowen and the rest of the first rounders in the 5-6 years after, remotely developed into quality players, there would have been no issues. Muckler/Murray/Dorion...are in my opinion poor GMs when it came to drafting. And so, the flaws. Muckler would have been the GM for another 5 years, if the 04-07 drafts were anywhere near as good as the 00-03.

 

[coladin]

It's funny, during the offseason, the acquisition of these vets was often justified with we have to insolate the kids or we'll become the Edm Oilers.

Well, we are currently on pace for the worst season in the history of the franchise, and in contention for ousting the capitals for worst season in the history of the league.

I think well turn things around to some degree and not achieve that dubious distinction, and the uniqueness of the all canadian division with no games outside the division certainly puts an asterisk on the season, but the reality is we aren't sheltering anyone.

The team absolutely misjudged what the vets would bring and we are seeing the results.

We all know why they wanted short term contracts, but why did these vets all have to be slow? A guy like Matt Cullen played forever, because he could skate and contribute. I mean, the intent was good but man, they misjudged the speed of the game, and more importantly the speed in our division

 

[inthewings]

Sadly you’re right. the team has been aimless since Muckler was Fired. No stability in coaching or player retention, no firm plan for the team it’s been very impulsive, of course ownership is a nightmare, PR has been horrible and the fans have checked out.

and watching this team now you see some pieces, but a serious lack of skill and creativity, not enough speed and skill and some things to like in the young kids but I have fears they are building a team that just won’t have the speed and skill to compete, try hard team with not enough magic to make it happen

I realize I'm old now and that a lot of posters here don't remember the glory years (such as they were) but the last 11 or 12 years have been really tough for those of us who remember the 10-year stretch from 1996-97 to 2006-2007.

10 straight playoff seasons
6 100+ point seasons
4 division titles

The team was just a well-oiled machine, despite the constant stress worrying about Bryden's finances. The team was impeccably managed, well-coached, and just had quality people from top to bottom. We even had a stretch with 3 future HoFers playing in together in the middle of their primes (Chara, Hossa, Alfredsson), all mostly homegrown (Chara wasn't CHARA until he got here).

Man those were good times.

 

[Tuna99]

I realize I'm old now and that a lot of posters here don't remember the glory years (such as they were) but the last 11 or 12 years have been really tough for those of us who remember the 10-year stretch from 1996-97 to 2006-2007.

10 straight playoff seasons
6 100+ point seasons
4 division titles

The team was just a well-oiled machine, despite the constant stress worrying about Bryden's finances. The team was impeccably managed, well-coached, and just had quality people from top to bottom. We even had a stretch with 3 future HoFers playing in together in the middle of their primes (Chara, Hossa, Alfredsson), all mostly homegrown (Chara wasn't CHARA until he got here).

Man those were good times.

agree, Chara being a prime example of player who came into Ottawa and hard to believe, had a hard time getting through a game without falling over. Ottawa insulated him, let him grow, surrounded him with great people and raised expectations and he became Chara here - and the fans were like ‘Yep, that’s my Ottawa Senators’

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Get over it dude, you wanted him gone years ago, why do you keep dragging him back into every argument? And based on what we hear from Dorion and Melnyk, they did everything they could to sign him, but couldn't.

Why do people lie?


Did NOT want EK65 to be traded.
BUT, when he was, I got over it, as whining about it was not going to bring him back.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

No matter how hard you try to paint this as a stroke of genius deep down you know how disingenuous this it

No matter how hard you try to paint this trade, as a stroke of dumb luck, deep down you know how disingenuous this it

 

[Liver King]

We just need a guy who can make NHL level trades, negotiate contracts, and sign supporting free agents.

The Mann Brothers are going nowhere, who have proven to be able to draft and develop

Dorion is a horrible fit for what this stage of the rebuild needs. A good scout hired as a GM, fine - can't do anything else a Manager needs to do but hey, you gutted the team and drafted well.

Time to move on! Asap.

 

[HSF]

It's funny, during the offseason, the acquisition of these vets was often justified with we have to insolate the kids or we'll become the Edm Oilers.

Well, we are currently on pace for the worst season in the history of the franchise, and in contention for ousting the capitals for worst season in the history of the league.

I think well turn things around to some degree and not achieve that dubious distinction, and the uniqueness of the all canadian division with no games outside the division certainly puts an asterisk on the season, but the reality is we aren't sheltering anyone.

The team absolutely misjudged what the vets would bring and we are seeing the results.

I think they expected a lot more out of everyone even the youth

I mean they had to they literally put Tkachuk Norris and Batherson together since day 1 getting prime time mins

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What really bugs me is that we had Demelo, Namestnikov and Ennis as decent veterans we were familiar with.

Trading them for picks wasn't stupid but why trade them if you are going to veterans then following season? Why not keep the known quantities when going into the stormy sea that is a covid shortened season..

Obviously we didn't know about Covid when we traded those veterans but still. We were going to need veterans and we had decent ones who had bonded with our core.

 

[BatherSeason]

Why do people lie?


Did NOT want EK65 to be traded.
BUT, when he was, I got over it, as whining about it was not going to bring him back.

You are obviously not over it since you are still talking about it.

 

[BondraTime]

What really bugs me is that we had Demelo, Namestnikov and Ennis as decent veterans we were familiar with.

Trading them for picks wasn't stupid but why trade them if you are going to veterans then following season? Why not keep the known quantities when going into the stormy sea that is a covid shortened season..

Obviously we didn't know about Covid when we traded those veterans but still. We were going to need veterans and we had decent ones who had bonded with our core.

They were UFA’s, would you rather stay in Ottawa for likely less money, or go to whatever team you wanted for a bigger cheque?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You are obviously not over it since you are still talking about it.

what part of “I got over it” did you not understand?

I was more pissed at not being able to retain Mark Stone, who did not have the natural skill that EK 65 was blessed with, worked on his game in the AHL, and worked his way of the depth chart once on the roster, and was the true Captain of the Sens.

 

[BatherSeason]

what part of “I got over it” did you not understand?

I was more pissed at not being able to retain Mark Stone, who did not have the natural skill that EK 65 was blessed with, worked on his game in the AHL, and worked his way of the depth chart once on the roster, and was the true Captain of the Sens.

But Mark Stone didn't want to be here anymore, remember?

 

[JungleBeat]

Would Devon Toews have signed an extension with the Sens if we traded for him? I’m leaning towards yes, since everything was up in the air and he’d want to get paid.

 

[HSF]

Would Devon Toews have signed an extension with the Sens if we traded for him? I’m leaning towards yes, since everything was up in the air and he’d want to get paid.

probably would have had to overpay since he would have had a lot of leverage

 

[Do Make Say Think]

They were UFA’s, would you rather stay in Ottawa for likely less money, or go to whatever team you wanted for a bigger cheque?

True but they didn't even make an offer to Demelo.

I think we had a reasonable shot at retaining all three but it definitely was a risk.

It is just frustrating that all three of them would have been much better fits than J. Brown/Gudbranson/Stepan.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

probably would have had to overpay since he would have had a lot of leverage

Would rather overpay Toews than Murray.