Proposal: Give Dallas a scorer

[Kcb12345]

package deal

Zib - mid 20s, righty shot, 1C or great 1RW, former 6OA, 4 yrs 5.35
Skjei early 20s, lefty shot, top mid pair now, first pair upside, 6 yrs, 5.25
Buchenvich W upside, expiring elc, retain RFA
Zuc ideal fit top 6, plays either W, speed, playmaker w/enuf scoring is expiring at 4.5, Rangers eat half = 2.25.
{While there is a good chance IMO that Hayes [not part of this deal] does a Chapman back to the Yankees and returns after being rented out, Zuc, while he admittedly loves NY and NYR, is not in the rebuild, and if comfortable, I could see him extending 2-3 yrs not cheap but reasonable w/production.}
ballpark cap is a shade over 13.25
for

Heiskanen elc
2019 or 2020 1st
cap dump Spezza 7.5 expiring
cap dump Hanzal currently IR, often IRed, 4.75x2
Pitlick 4th line C or RW, 1m x 2
ballpark cap is 13.25

deal is $ balanced.

that is the deal.
if Stars also want a 2nd deal on a discounted McQuaid for cap dumps that is something that can be considered


Heiskanen is a major wince, BUT
Skjei and Zib = solid w/term
Skjei is not the all around stud Heisk is but he offers enough defensively and is an outstanding skater, not Kreider/MacKinnon/McDavid level, but offers much if not most of a very early, still developing McDonagh pre-injury and pre-experience.
The rest of the deal gives Stars ongoing firepower, mostly under club control. Zuc is UFA at year's end but there is no reason to think he won't re-sign if you offer market rate, if he likes it in big D, maybe even a bit less.

While there is always room for improvement, particularly at blue line and in net, this deal makes Stars the Cup favorite.
Presumably your pick will be very, very late if not last, and you will want to pay it this year to NYR, but you can delay for 1 yr, so if you do get great deal for a top D, you have currency besides besides prospects.

Rangers create room prospects to advance at pivot, and LD prospects know that as soon as ready, a slot is available for them [if Heiskanen moves to RD at some point].

Well that would certainly make us a better team but I have a feeling Nill will turn down any deal involving Heiskanen no matter what. Our top 6 would be insane

 

[One Winged Angel]

That’s gonna be a no from Dallas, bern.

You don't say.

 

[One Winged Angel]

package deal

Zib - mid 20s, righty shot, 1C or great 1RW, former 6OA, 4 yrs 5.35
Skjei early 20s, lefty shot, top mid pair now, first pair upside, 6 yrs, 5.25
Buchenvich W upside, expiring elc, retain RFA
Zuc ideal fit top 6, plays either W, speed, playmaker w/enuf scoring is expiring at 4.5, Rangers eat half = 2.25.
{While there is a good chance IMO that Hayes [not part of this deal] does a Chapman back to the Yankees and returns after being rented out, Zuc, while he admittedly loves NY and NYR, is not in the rebuild, and if comfortable, I could see him extending 2-3 yrs not cheap but reasonable w/production.}
ballpark cap is a shade over 13.25
for

Heiskanen elc
2019 or 2020 1st
cap dump Spezza 7.5 expiring
cap dump Hanzal currently IR, often IRed, 4.75x2
Pitlick 4th line C or RW, 1m x 2
ballpark cap is 13.25

deal is $ balanced.

that is the deal.
if Stars also want a 2nd deal on a discounted McQuaid for cap dumps that is something that can be considered


Heiskanen is a major wince, BUT
Skjei and Zib = solid w/term
Skjei is not the all around stud Heisk is but he offers enough defensively and is an outstanding skater, not Kreider/MacKinnon/McDavid level, but offers much if not most of a very early, still developing McDonagh pre-injury and pre-experience.
The rest of the deal gives Stars ongoing firepower, mostly under club control. Zuc is UFA at year's end but there is no reason to think he won't re-sign if you offer market rate, if he likes it in big D, maybe even a bit less.

While there is always room for improvement, particularly at blue line and in net, this deal makes Stars the Cup favorite.
Presumably your pick will be very, very late if not last, and you will want to pay it this year to NYR, but you can delay for 1 yr, so if you do get great deal for a top D, you have currency besides besides prospects.

Rangers create room prospects to advance at pivot, and LD prospects know that as soon as ready, a slot is available for them [if Heiskanen moves to RD at some point].

This is horrible for the Rangers.

 

[slg1963]

Zuuc is your guy , now what are you going to offer to get him ?

 

[bernmeister]

That’s gonna be a no from Dallas, bern.

no vote acknowledged, thanks for response.

any specific point of contention?
I don't see how NY could be more accommodating, and the only thing -- granted it is a big thing -- but the only thing Dallas has to surrender is Heisk.

 

[bernmeister]

Well that would certainly make us a better team but I have a feeling Nill will turn down any deal involving Heiskanen no matter what. Our top 6 would be insane

If Heiskanen is off the table "NO MATTER WHAT", like you say, that is one thing.

I consider my offer fair but reasonable [not massive] overpay.

Serves interests of both teams.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

That’s it? Sign me up. We could still afford Duchene asset and cap wise too.

It's something i can see happening, If Nyquist agree's to waive his full NTC. I think he would for Dallas.

 

[mashedpotato]

I like the "give" in the title - seems almost like Charity.

Dallas has a talented top line already - Seguin's a beast and can carry a team.

 

[bernmeister]

This is horrible for the Rangers.

I disagree, feel free to elaborate.

If we do my move, say we also send
Andersson, maybe a 2nd and Hayes as a rental for the rights to Quinton Hughes and a 3rd.
and
Staal, Namest., Spooner + DeAngelo for the 2 later 2019 conditional 1sts Sabres have [St. Louis, SJ] and Bogo reduced to 4
(Staal provides experience for Dahlin to take for this year, option to buy out super cheap thereafter, Bogo an x factor at 4 can be moved.)

this year is irrelevant, we want to get down to a minimum core for Quinn, and build on that adding depth next year.

nxt year Panarin on board, Kratsov start at W, but is a possible C. Hayes returns. Chytil plays either F spot.

Kreider - Nieves - Kratsov
Chytil - Hayes - Panarin
Vesey - Howden - Fast
Hanzal - Pitlick - Lettieri

something like that
then

Hughes - Heiskanen
Hajek - Pionk
Lindgren - Shatty

 

[LT]

I disagree, feel free to elaborate.

If we do my move, say we also send
Andersson, maybe a 2nd and Hayes as a rental for the rights to Quinton Hughes and a 3rd.
and
Staal, Namest., Spooner + DeAngelo for the 2 later 2019 conditional 1sts Sabres have [St. Louis, SJ] and Bogo reduced to 4
(Staal provides experience for Dahlin to take for this year, option to buy out super cheap thereafter, Bogo an x factor at 4 can be moved.)

this year is irrelevant, we want to get down to a minimum core for Quinn, and build on that adding depth next year.

nxt year Panarin on board, Kratsov start at W, but is a possible C. Hayes returns. Chytil plays either F spot.

Kreider - Nieves - Kratsov
Chytil - Hayes - Panarin
Vesey - Howden - Fast
Hanzal - Pitlick - Lettieri

something like that
then

Hughes - Heiskanen
Hajek - Pionk
Lindgren - Shatty

Your problem is that you think prospects like Heiskanen and Hughes are going to be moved for a package of good but not great pieces. That simply doesn’t happen.

The only two who have been moved in recent times are Jones and Sergachev, both of whom were moved in a 1-for-1 for a legitimate top line forward (or so we thought in Drouin’s case).

It is virtually never a good idea to move young, cheap, elite talent for a package of lesser pieces, no matter how many pieces you’re getting.

You aren’t wrong in that the trade in a vacuum is fine for Dallas (the Vancouver one isn’t), but we simply aren’t moving Heiskanen for anything besides a better player (which will never be offered). Players like that are simply too hard to acquire.

 

[Kcb12345]

Your problem is that you think prospects like Heiskanen and Hughes are going to be moved for a package of good but not great pieces. That simply doesn’t happen.

The only two who have been moved in recent times are Jones and Sergachev, both of whom were moved in a 1-for-1 for a legitimate top line forward (or so we thought in Drouin’s case).

It is virtually never a good idea to move young, cheap, elite talent for a package of lesser pieces, no matter how many pieces you’re getting.

You aren’t wrong in that the trade in a vacuum is fine for Dallas (the Vancouver one isn’t), but we simply aren’t moving Heiskanen for anything besides a better player (which will never be offered). Players like that are simply too hard to acquire.

And to add to that, Heiskanen would never be traded for a just a forward cause our LD depth would be the worst in the league starting next season. That would open up an even bigger hole for us

 

[One Winged Angel]

I disagree, feel free to elaborate.

If we do my move, say we also send
Andersson, maybe a 2nd and Hayes as a rental for the rights to Quinton Hughes and a 3rd.
and
Staal, Namest., Spooner + DeAngelo for the 2 later 2019 conditional 1sts Sabres have [St. Louis, SJ] and Bogo reduced to 4
(Staal provides experience for Dahlin to take for this year, option to buy out super cheap thereafter, Bogo an x factor at 4 can be moved.)

this year is irrelevant, we want to get down to a minimum core for Quinn, and build on that adding depth next year.

nxt year Panarin on board, Kratsov start at W, but is a possible C. Hayes returns. Chytil plays either F spot.

Kreider - Nieves - Kratsov
Chytil - Hayes - Panarin
Vesey - Howden - Fast
Hanzal - Pitlick - Lettieri

something like that
then

Hughes - Heiskanen
Hajek - Pionk
Lindgren - Shatty

I need to elaborate? You give up a young top-6 center on a good deal with a lot of term left, 2 top-6 wingers, one of them having a lot of team control left and the other an impending UFA that could land substantial return at the deadline and a top-4 defender for a rookie defender that has played a handful of games at the NHL level, albeit talented, is completely unproven, a 1st round pick, and then a bunch of pieces that don't help us, as Spezza is in the twilight of his career, Hanzal is made of glass and Pitlick is a redundant part for the Rangers.

This is ATROCIOUS for the Rangers. The only reason Dallas doesn't do this is because they believe Heiskanen is their cornerstone defender. Otherwise it's an absolute joke for the Rangers.

 

[bernmeister]

I need to elaborate? You give up a young top-6 center on a good deal with a lot of term left, 2 top-6 wingers, one of them having a lot of team control left and the other an impending UFA that could land substantial return at the deadline and a top-4 defender for a rookie defender that has played a handful of games at the NHL level, albeit talented, is completely unproven, a 1st round pick, and then a bunch of pieces that don't help us, as Spezza is in the twilight of his career, Hanzal is made of glass and Pitlick is a redundant part for the Rangers.

This is ATROCIOUS for the Rangers. The only reason Dallas doesn't do this is because they believe Heiskanen is their cornerstone defender. Otherwise it's an absolute joke for the Rangers.

NY should get down to a core and move surplus depth.
Heisk would be a cornerstone piece.
Adding Panarin - not a given but plausible - plus Kratsov and clearly we can do the move I suggested including trade ADA, Namest., and Spoons to Buf., with enough Fs

thanks for the feedback
I think we have to look ahead of the curve, not just immediate ramifications

 

[bernmeister]

Your problem is that you think prospects like Heiskanen and Hughes are going to be moved for a package of good but not great pieces. That simply doesn’t happen.

The only two who have been moved in recent times are Jones and Sergachev, both of whom were moved in a 1-for-1 for a legitimate top line forward (or so we thought in Drouin’s case).

It is virtually never a good idea to move young, cheap, elite talent for a package of lesser pieces, no matter how many pieces you’re getting.

You aren’t wrong in that the trade in a vacuum is fine for Dallas (the Vancouver one isn’t), but we simply aren’t moving Heiskanen for anything besides a better player (which will never be offered). Players like that are simply too hard to acquire.

thanks for the detailed comment.

I am not saying you are wrong.
I am saying the prob with that philosophy is it is subordinate to existing conditions.
so all the people in Tor who want like Parayko for Nylander, it is not happening, b'c there are too few RDs at that level.

Your situation is different in that you are not asking for as much help as I volunteered to provide.
But the more help you'd get, the more it would cost.

 

[bernmeister]

And to add to that, Heiskanen would never be traded for a just a forward cause our LD depth would be the worst in the league starting next season. That would open up an even bigger hole for us

I understand not wanting to pay that price, esp since it would be against the odds to draft a D that high calibre from later draft position than 3OA you were fortunate to get. Congrats.

On the other hand, people talk about going "all in", and if close enuf, do they overpay a bit in one way or the other.

Yes, it would require the surrender of Heisk, and that is a major wince, and not a move to be made looking 5 years down the road.

However, given the ample degree of return, IF the team chose to go win now, it's a lot of value to receive for one super crown jewel. I mean, unarguably, you make that deal, barring injury Dallas is cup favorite, no?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Take Nylander and give us one of your good young defensemen not named Honka.

 

[Lays]

Kreider for Tufte+1st
or
Hayes for 1st+something small
not like Nill is going to put those 1st rounders into good use anyway

 

[Kcb12345]

Kreider for Tufte+1st
or
Hayes for 1st+something small
not like Nill is going to put those 1st rounders into good use anyway

I'd definitely do that deal for Kreider

 

[Kcb12345]

Take Nylander and give us one of your good young defensemen not named Honka.

Carrick

 

[Kcb12345]

I understand not wanting to pay that price, esp since it would be against the odds to draft a D that high calibre from later draft position than 3OA you were fortunate to get. Congrats.

On the other hand, people talk about going "all in", and if close enuf, do they overpay a bit in one way or the other.

Yes, it would require the surrender of Heisk, and that is a major wince, and not a move to be made looking 5 years down the road.

However, given the ample degree of return, IF the team chose to go win now, it's a lot of value to receive for one super crown jewel. I mean, unarguably, you make that deal, barring injury Dallas is cup favorite, no?

I'd do the deal in a heartbeat probably. Not everyday you get an entire 2nd line and a top 4 dman (and a pretty young group at that) in a trade while dumping 2 contracts and including a 3rd liner and a likely late 1st. Would hurt to give up Heiskanen but that deal would make us very powerful offensively and Skjei fills his LD spot nicely. Spezza would likely not waive his NTC for the Rangers though cause he just wants to contend and if the Rangers give up that package they're pretty far from contending lol.

Our lineup could look like this if that deal happened:

Benn-Seguin-Radulov
Buchnevich-Zibanejad-Zuccarello
Janmark-Faksa-Nichushkin
Dickinson/Hintz-Shore-Ritchie
Smith

Lindell-Klingberg
Skjei-Johns
Methot-Carrick/Honka
Polak

With that being said, Nill would still turn it down just because I seriously don't think he'd move Heiskanen for anything. I'd do it though honestly

 

[Zrhutch]

Nyquist at the TDL for a 2nd and 3rd
A Duchene or Zuccarello before that for a package involving Honka. Shore, and a 1st

This seems entirely doable

 

[Reaper45]

What would Carter or Toffoli get the Kings?

 

[One Winged Angel]

NY should get down to a core and move surplus depth.
Heisk would be a cornerstone piece.
Adding Panarin - not a given but plausible - plus Kratsov and clearly we can do the move I suggested including trade ADA, Namest., and Spoons to Buf., with enough Fs

thanks for the feedback
I think we have to look ahead of the curve, not just immediate ramifications

Panarin has nothing to do with the deal and isn't a guarantee and either is Kravtsov. You're "looking ahead of the curve" but you're under the mindset that everything will work out way you think it will, completely shoving aside the notion of possible failure of 1. The Rangers acquiring Panarin and 2. Kravtsov panning out to what you think he can become.

So you're willing to give up core pieces in one big deal where the Rangers lose HORRIBLY value wise to in essence, take a gigantic gamble on bunch of futures, when three of the four pieces being moved by the Rangers are well shy of 30 years old.

That's not good asset management at all, Bernie. You're selling for pennies on the dollar. Zuccarello alone could get a first being dealt separately at the deadline.

Dallas won't do it because they value Heiskanen more than anyone in the organization, sans Seguin, Benn and Klingberg. From the Rangers perspective, this would be a fireable offense for Gorton.

 

[Lays]

package deal

Zib - mid 20s, righty shot, 1C or great 1RW, former 6OA, 4 yrs 5.35
Skjei early 20s, lefty shot, top mid pair now, first pair upside, 6 yrs, 5.25
Buchenvich W upside, expiring elc, retain RFA
Zuc ideal fit top 6, plays either W, speed, playmaker w/enuf scoring is expiring at 4.5, Rangers eat half = 2.25.
{While there is a good chance IMO that Hayes [not part of this deal] does a Chapman back to the Yankees and returns after being rented out, Zuc, while he admittedly loves NY and NYR, is not in the rebuild, and if comfortable, I could see him extending 2-3 yrs not cheap but reasonable w/production.}
ballpark cap is a shade over 13.25
for

Heiskanen elc
2019 or 2020 1st
cap dump Spezza 7.5 expiring
cap dump Hanzal currently IR, often IRed, 4.75x2
Pitlick 4th line C or RW, 1m x 2
ballpark cap is 13.25

deal is $ balanced.

that is the deal.
if Stars also want a 2nd deal on a discounted McQuaid for cap dumps that is something that can be considered


Heiskanen is a major wince, BUT
Skjei and Zib = solid w/term
Skjei is not the all around stud Heisk is but he offers enough defensively and is an outstanding skater, not Kreider/MacKinnon/McDavid level, but offers much if not most of a very early, still developing McDonagh pre-injury and pre-experience.
The rest of the deal gives Stars ongoing firepower, mostly under club control. Zuc is UFA at year's end but there is no reason to think he won't re-sign if you offer market rate, if he likes it in big D, maybe even a bit less.

While there is always room for improvement, particularly at blue line and in net, this deal makes Stars the Cup favorite.
Presumably your pick will be very, very late if not last, and you will want to pay it this year to NYR, but you can delay for 1 yr, so if you do get great deal for a top D, you have currency besides besides prospects.

Rangers create room prospects to advance at pivot, and LD prospects know that as soon as ready, a slot is available for them [if Heiskanen moves to RD at some point].

what is this

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider for Tufte+1st
or
Hayes for 1st+something small
not like Nill is going to put those 1st rounders into good use anyway

Tufte better be all that AND a bag of chips.
not found at capfriendly - stars page
Kreider commands way more than late 1st

Hayes will also best serve in Chapman-Yankees scenario where we get him back next year after receive rental swag.
Also want best 1st + market commands there.