Proposal: Gibson to the Avs

[bsu]

What do you call the goalie tandem that allowed the 6th fewest goals last year?

A goalie tandem on a stacked team.....

 

[PAZ]

I see what you guys are saying, but they are not really good arguments. Anytime when you have someone that takes to almost their 30s to make it to the NHL, they don't have great potential to be high end players in this league. His performance in the KHL, while somewhat relevant, is pretty far from a guarantee that he does the same here, KHL is a different game, with different rules, and notably inferior level of goal scoring skills compared to here.

I'm not saying that he doesn't belong here, I'm just saying that to rely on him as a member of equally split tandem, on a team that's supposedly a favorite to win it all, is a bit insane.

Francouz doesn't need to be a high-end starter in the league. What he has shown is an above-average - elite backup goaltender in a small sample size. Would a goalie like Gibson be ideal? Of course, but not at the expense of Newhook, and history suggests that.

Dallas rode Khudobin, a career backup to Game 6 of the SCF.
St. Louis won with a career AHLer goalie that just needed a shot.
Pittsburgh won B2B with a rookie goaltender on a hot streak.

Hell, even if we go back further, LA won with Quick who was suppose to be a stopgap goaltender until Bernier was ready. Chicago won with Niemi (a below average starter) and Crawford.

You know what almost all these teams have in common? None of them had an established, elite goaltender at the time, they all either established themselves as an elite goalie during the run or fizzled out.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

A goalie tandem on a stacked team.....

And what do you call Vasilevsky, whose even more stacked team allowed 4 more goals than the Avs did in the same number of games?

 

[sandybridge]

Tim Thomas didn't make the NHL until he was 31, and still won 2 Vezinas and the Cup, so stranger things have happened.

And, when you say "a bit insane", would that be more or less insane than trading Duchene for a bunch of futures?

That was a homerun, mainly due to the fact of good scouting (on Girard), and the fortunate (for the Aves) fact that Ottawa just happened to have imploded that year (issues with Karlsson, the cheap ownership, Hoffman's GF, general malaise of that franchise, etc).

Either way, it has nothing to do with Francouz, or the Aves' goal-tending, which really has never been a strong suit since Roy left.

 

[bsu]

And what do you call Vasilevsky, whose even more stacked team allowed 4 more goals than the Avs did in the same number of games?

West vs East, the west has so many bottom feeders.

 

[sandybridge]

Francouz doesn't need to be a high-end starter in the league. What he has shown is an above-average - elite backup goaltender in a small sample size. Would a goalie like Gibson be ideal? Of course, but not at the expense of Newhook, and history suggests that.

Dallas rode Khudobin, a career backup to Game 6 of the SCF.
St. Louis won with a career AHLer goalie that just needed a shot.
Pittsburgh won B2B with a rookie goaltender on a hot streak.

Hell, even if we go back further, LA won with Quick who was suppose to be a stopgap goaltender until Bernier was ready. Chicago won with Niemi (a below average starter) and Crawford.

You know what almost all these teams have in common? None of them had an elite goaltender at the time, they all either established themselves as an elite goalie during the run or fizzled out.

You are quite right, in that some goal tenders do get hot for runs.

The issue here is that you cannot rely on that fact, especially when your window is wide open, unless you are claiming to be Nostradamus.

 

[PAZ]

hahahaa

Name 10 tandems better.

 

[PAZ]

You are quite right, in that some goal tenders do get hot for runs.

The issue here is that you cannot rely on that fact, especially when your window is wide open, unless you are claiming to be Nostradamus.

We aren't relying on Grubuaer to go on a hot run, the Avs are built where average/above-average goaltending should be enough to get them to the SCF. If we could upgrade our goaltending for the right price, sure. But spending $10 mil+ on a goaltending tandem or trading our blue-chip prospects away for an upgrade isn't the answer since that would mean losing Landeskog (for another $5-6 mil goaltender) or Byram/Newhook+ for an elite goaltender like Gibson.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You are quite right, in that some goal tenders do get hot for runs.

The issue here is that you cannot rely on that fact, especially when your window is wide open, unless you are claiming to be Nostradamus.

But, we should rely on your claims that Gru/Francouz aren't good enough, based on absolutely nothing?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

West vs East, the west has so many bottom feeders.

5 of the 8 worst teams in the NHL last season were in the East. Detroit and Ottawa would have picked 1 and 2 without the lottery.

 

[Gliff]

What do you call the goalie tandem that allowed the 6th fewest goals last year?

Goals against is largely a team stat. Yes the goalie is a huge part of that, but good teams generally have pretty good GF/G and GA/G.
The Aves are a very good team.

In your defense, I am impressed with how well Francouz played last season. Better then I thought.
I still would like to see some consistent performance before giving him the nod.

 

[Gliff]

5 of the 8 worst teams in the NHL last season were in the East. Detroit and Ottawa would have picked 1 and 2 without the lottery.

Kinda funny because I dont actually think the standings say who the bad teams are this season. You could be a decent team in a gauntlet division and just get smoked where as you can be in the west where 5 of the teams would normally have no shot to be in the playoffs.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Kinda funny because I dont actually think the standings say who the bad teams are this season. You could be a decent team in a gauntlet division and just get smoked where as you can be in the west where 5 of the teams would normally have no shot to be in the playoffs.

Do I need to highlight the portion where I clearly said "last season"?

Goals against is largely a team stat. Yes the goalie is a huge part of that, but good teams generally have pretty good GF/G and GA/G.
The Aves are a very good team.

In your defense, I am impressed with how well Francouz played last season. Better then I thought.
I still would like to see some consistent performance before giving him the nod.

How do you see consistent performance without giving him the chance?

 

[Gliff]

Do I need to highlight the portion where I clearly said "last season"?



How do you see consistent performance without giving him the chance?

Dude, relax. I'm just having a conversation and making an observation. I'm not saying you are wrong.

 

[sandybridge]

We aren't relying on Grubuaer to go on a hot run, the Avs are built where average/above-average goaltending should be enough to get them to the SCF. If we could upgrade our goaltending for the right price, sure. But spending $10 mil+ on a goaltending tandem or trading our blue-chip prospects away for an upgrade isn't the answer since that would mean losing Landeskog (for another $5-6 mil goaltender) or Byram/Newhook+ for an elite goaltender like Gibson.

But, we should rely on your claims that Gru/Francouz aren't good enough, based on absolutely nothing?

Honestly, I don't really care enough to continue arguing with you guys. Most of your arguments are pretty tired and we've heard many versions of these the last couple of years from the Aves fanbase.

There are literally no one else outside of Denver that views that tandem as a legit cup winner's. That should tell you something.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Honestly, I don't really care enough to continue arguing with you guys. Most of your arguments are pretty tired and we've heard many versions of these the last couple of years from the Aves fanbase.

There are literally no one else outside of Denver that views that tandem as a legit cup winner's. That should tell you something.

So, it's somehow our fault that you can't prove your laughable claims?

 

[sandybridge]

So, it's somehow our fault that you can't prove your laughable claims?

You really need a mirror when you say that. Your claim that the "laughable claims" aren't proven really has no proof of its own.

 

[sasha barkov]

The Avs can't afford spending $10 mil+ on goaltending, and there is no need. A healthy Grubuaer/Francouz is a top 5-10 tandem in the league, the main issue is health.

Lololololol

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You really need a mirror when you say that. Your claim that the "laughable claims" aren't proven really has no proof of its own.

Wow, you really got me with that one. Maybe next time you'll actually provide some evidence to back up your claims instead of attempting playground level insults.

 

[bsu]

Name 10 tandems better.

I will take every starting goalie that is better than either. If you think either of them are top 10 you're joking yourself. In the playoffs Tandems don't matter, superstars do.

 

[Richard88]

My only qualm with Grubauer is do you trust him to handle the workload. He's never played 40 games a season. In less time, Gibson has played almost 100 games more, and plays 50-60 games a season.

It might not be worth the upgrade, and Grubauer is playing fantastic, but he does have at least one big question to answer. Can he stay healthy and last beyond 40 (though I guess that's much less of a concern this year). That's something worth keeping an eye on. But as mentioned, it's being pretty nitpicky of a powerhouse team--though those margins matter most at the highest level!

Avs don't need an upgrade on Grubauer. They simply need a solid and healthy backup to make sure the Avs don't have to ride Grubauer into the ground. Francouz is good enough as backup, but the issue is that he's out long term. Avs need a backup/3G.

 

[PAZ]

Honestly, I don't really care enough to continue arguing with you guys. Most of your arguments are pretty tired and we've heard many versions of these the last couple of years from the Aves fanbase.

There are literally no one else outside of Denver that views that tandem as a legit cup winner's. That should tell you something.

The Avs had the best odds to win the cup at the start of the season with that tandem. That should tell you something.

Also, here ya go: Can the Avalanche win a Cup with their Goalies?

But I guess all HFboard members and oddsmakers are from Denver, right?

 

[Richard88]

If I were the Aves, I would try to do a 1A 1B situation. Maybe acquire someone on the level of Markstrom, some legit starter that's on the down side of his career but can still handle a hefty load, and have him split time with Grubauer. Grubauer by himself I don't see being able to carry a team to the cup. But in combination with another legitimate starter (but not an high-end one), they might be able to back stop a contender.

The obvious target for a 1B situation would be to trade for Kuemper, especially if they can get him at 50% retention. Kuemper at $2.25m for 2 cup runs as Grubauer's 1B/backup would be perfect.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

All I can really say to this page of discussion is "hope isn't a strategy."

Pointing out other goalie tandems have caught lightning in a bottle doesn't make it magically happen for the Avs. It doesn't make it NOT happen either and as mentioned earlier maybe Grubauer IS the guy but you have to have your head in the sand if you think that's not worth exploring options on. Like below I think is a solid response/option:

Avs don't need an upgrade on Grubauer. They simply need a solid and healthy backup to make sure the Avs don't have to ride Grubauer into the ground. Francouz is good enough as backup, but the issue is that he's out long term. Avs need a backup/3G.

Yeah I don't want to use the word 'upgrade' but as I was saying to the other poster earlier what you see as "riding into the ground" I see as "normal starter workload" and why it's fair to have concerns about what he can do longer-term. The league is riddled with guys who are elite across 40 games.

But if you can get a 2nd reliable goaltender that definitely allows you to see what you have in Grubauer and as you say spell him if he needs breaks. I think that's a fair strategy. But calling a guy "good enough" doesn't exactly inspire confidence, haha.

 

[Richard88]

I think Miller would be a great target as a backup to Grubauer, assuming Francouz isn't expected to return any time soon. Even then, having someone like Miller as our insurance policy in case one/both goalies get injured again in the playoffs wouldn't be the worst thing.

I agree. Get Anaheim to retain 50% and you have Miller as the backup/3G at just a $500k caphit which would be great from a roster management perspective.