OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion X

[LyricalLyricist]

lol wut?

Like I told you before, it's one of the most stacked divisions...

LW and WW are usually the most stacked because that is where the average sized male fighter would cut to.

 

[Kriss E]

Like I told you before, it's one of the most stacked divisions...

LW and WW are usually the most stacked because that is where the average sized male fighter would cut to.

I think theres Khabib and Ferguson..rest is meh.

 

[Kriss E]

That's not necessarily how it works.

If a fighter wins titles in every single division(for example) but isn't the GOAT of that division he may still have a claim for greatest P4P of all time. Translating your success to multiple weight classes helps your cause. It doesn't put DC above JJ at the moment though. If he would've beat Stipe it would've been more interesting but he lost.

Well P4P and GOAT are two different discussions.
And stop with ''if he would have won/lost'' talking points, of course if we change the outcomes and records of fighters, then things would change. No need to go in such pointless fiction. Stick to the facts.
DC lost to Stipe...''had he won''..well, he didn't so the point is moot.

Why is about giving DC a chance to win? DC would've been putting his belt on the line and had more to lose in his legacy than Jones.

More to lose? What are you talking about. DC is more comfortable at HW and has two back-to-back losses to avenge. Jones...okay, sure, could grab the belt but how's that going to change his legacy really? Would it be special? Nope, not anymore, quite a few fighters have done that now.
So then what? He is already considered the GOAT. He doesn't need this.

GSP was a small WW though...Jones is a big LHW...

LHW and HW are different because at every other weight class people cut to the limit. At HW some people are 35 pounds under the limit(Stipe for example). If Jones just didn't cut...he'd be as big as Stipe. He's not the undersized fighter. He has more reach than most heavyweights.

This is all moot anyway because Jones said he'll fight at HW one day but when it was against DC he changed his mind.

GSP a small WW?? Are you insane? The guy was a massive 170lbs guy. Do you not remember how little bf% this guy had to be in order to make 170..? It was one of Rogan's favorite line to repeat in every GSP fight...how big of a WW he was.

You're not making any sense. You just said everyone cuts weight, okay, so let's all make them fight at their walking weights then.

He was willing to tease fighting Stipe and Lesnar but DC? He wasn't interested.

Ya..I'm sure some of that is trolling DC, which is one of his favorite hobbies. I don't know what you're insinuating here...he's scared to fight DC? He beat him twice, convincingly. That's done. He has no obligation to fight him again and him saying he'd go at it vs others is pure JJ trolling to me.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I had him 2-1 leading not 3-0, and it seemed like Stipe in the first two rounds was either just rusty or giving DC way too much respect. He wasn't moving, he wasn't throwing much, he seemed very uncomfortable out there. He looked nothing like the Stipe the Champ. That started to change in the 3rd rd where he started looking more like himself, and in the 4th he found his way back in.

If DC would have just stuck to wrestling, you don't know what would have happened so don't speak of it like it were a fact. Heck, in your own argument you say DC won the first 3 rds ''no problem'' and yet Stipe owned and finished him in the 4th.

As of late?...You mean in the one fight he won? Oh..wait...he didn't look like a God...therefore this time, and this time alone, must be that he's off the PEDs..loll Can't be anything else.
Of course you had Thiago winning, you hate JJ. Reality is he lost and DC lost twice to him.
Or you including the Smith and Guvs fights too? Because he owned those guys.



It's not just about winning or losing. Most of the guys in the GOAT discussion have lost, GSP, A.Silva, Fedor. What makes them special isn't just their long reigns but also how they broke down fights.
Again, the discussion isn't whether or not DC was an amazing fighter, he is/was. But to be part of the GOAT discussion, you need something extra. Khabib could be in the discussion but I don't like the Lightweight division...I feel its weak, but his level of dominance cannot go unmentioned.

Khabib has literally beaten no one except Connor. Hugely overrated IMO, much like Connor himself who lost to Diaz.

I agree on DC though, I don't think he was ever in the discussion. His competition is very weak compared to Jones/GSP. THERE is no comparison whatsoever.

 

[TT1]

Khabib has literally beaten no one except Connor. Hugely overrated IMO, much like Connor himself who lost to Diaz.

I agree on DC though, I don't think he was ever in the discussion. His competition is very weak compared to Jones/GSP. THERE is no comparison whatsoever.

How can anyone watch Khabib and say he's overrated? Look at his technique.. he's a god tier wrestler and he's ALWAYS pressuring. He forces you to fight at his pace, eventually he'll wear you out. His pressuring/pace/technique is unmatched in MMA.

 

[MD thaivuN]

LW literrally re-supplies WW with top level fighters. That division is stupidly stacked.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Well P4P and GOAT are two different discussions.
And stop with ''if he would have won/lost'' talking points, of course if we change the outcomes and records of fighters, then things would change. No need to go in such pointless fiction. Stick to the facts.
DC lost to Stipe...''had he won''..well, he didn't so the point is moot.

Fair enough.

More to lose? What are you talking about. DC is more comfortable at HW and has two back-to-back losses to avenge. Jones...okay, sure, could grab the belt but how's that going to change his legacy really? Would it be special? Nope, not anymore, quite a few fighters have done that now.
So then what? He is already considered the GOAT. He doesn't need this.

Before his loss to Stipe DC was undefeated at HW. If he lost to Jones there Jones would've taken DC's unblemished record in his natural weight division.

DC and JJ both want(ed) to fight at LHW though but even Dana White was pushing for this fight at heavyweight because of how big it would be.

GSP a small WW?? Are you insane? The guy was a massive 170lbs guy. Do you not remember how little bf% this guy had to be in order to make 170..? It was one of Rogan's favorite line to repeat in every GSP fight...how big of a WW he was.

You're not making any sense. You just said everyone cuts weight, okay, so let's all make them fight at their walking weights then.

GSP had trouble bulking remaining 185 for his middleweight fight. The highest he reached while bulking is 200 lbs. Khabib is hits 200 lbs for 155... Costa hit 230-235 for 185, etc...

Maybe not a small but he wasn't a huge WW, he just appared so. He had a lot of trouble retaining weight for middleweight because he's generally not a heavy guy.

Ya..I'm sure some of that is trolling DC, which is one of his favorite hobbies. I don't know what you're insinuating here...he's scared to fight DC? He beat him twice, convincingly. That's done. He has no obligation to fight him again and him saying he'd go at it vs others is pure JJ trolling to me.

Uh no.

July 29th, 2017:



At 3:30 he calls out Lesnar. This isn't twitter trolling.

-----------------

Feb 15th, 2019:

(Talking about Valesquez fight)

“For now let’s just focus on the fights ahead of us,” Jones wrote. “My heavyweight days are inevitable.”

-----------------

March 1st, 2019:

(He changes his stance)

“I think people want me to go to heavyweight because, quite frankly, they want to see me lose,” Jones told MMA Fighting at UFC 235’s open workouts, “or get close to it, or take some serious damage — and at heavyweight, the risk goes up tremendously. These guys are a lot bigger than me. And they say all the time, when you get a talented little guy versus a talented big guy, the odds are in the big guy’s favor, right? So I think that’s the pressure.

“I don’t think it’s fair, really, because I’ve always been a light heavyweight. Despite who the champion’s been, I’ve never challenged anybody at heavyweight. And I feel like I’ll move up to heavyweight on my own terms, when I feel like the UFC’s playing ball with me contractually to entertain that. No one’s entertaining any idea of switching the contract for any superfights, so we’re just kinda stuck at this spot here, fighting at light heavyweight.”

"Talented little guy"...please. Stipe and him would be same weight. He says vs Thiago he went Lean and will be 221 on fight night. Stipe was 230. This is nonsensical.

"I never challenged a heavyweight"...uh, lesnar?

-----------------------------

May 14th, 2019:

(Admits DC can beat him at HW)

“But me coming up short, I’m a realist. Daniel Cormier is a special athlete and everyone can be beat. I think my greatest chance of losing would be to a guy like Daniel Cormier, with giving him a power and strength advantage over me, it just doesn’t make sense.

“Right now I make light heavyweight very easily and it just wouldn’t make no sense to fight a guy who I think technically [is] on your level, and to give him a size advantage, I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. I’m sure my fans don’t like to hear me talk like that, but that’s just me being a realist and being respectful to Daniel’s abilities.”

Cormier came in at 236.5 on the scale for UFC 241. Are you actually telling me Jones is nowhere near that size if he doesn't cut? C'mon man. Jones doesn't want to fight DC at HW even though Jones will still have the bigger height, reach and can easily match DC in weight if he didn't cut.


----------------------------

August 7th, 2019:

(Brings up lesnar again, implies Stipe is extremely big and he is extremely small)

"I feel like if I was going to take a fight at heavyweight it would be against a person who me and my coaches feel would be a perfect matchup for me," Jones said at the UFC 214 post-fight press conference. "Right now, Stipe is looking extremely impressive. And I believe if you get an extremely talented big guy versus an extremely talented little guy, I mean, a lot of the cards are in his favor. At the same time, I fear no man. I strike for a reason when I strike.

"I feel like Stipe is relatively unknown to the general public. It wouldn't even be a real superfight in my opinion. I think a lot of MMA fans would be super excited about it, but the general public wouldn't care about that fight."

Full out says he cares about superfights.


Anyway, this conversation is going in circles. Obviously JJ is the best right now. No question. I think he is playing the 'little guy' card a lot though when he really isn't...He's willing to fight Lesnar who is like 285 on fight night but not Stipe who is 230???

It's his choice and like GSP did, he doesn't NEED to do anything. He can fight at LHW his entire career if he wants but taking risks helps your legacy. It absolutely does. Does he need the boost? Maybe not. He's undefeated, he's a beast. One day the loss will eventually come and he'll regret not moving up earlier though.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Khabib has literally beaten no one except Connor. Hugely overrated IMO, much like Connor himself who lost to Diaz.

I agree on DC though, I don't think he was ever in the discussion. His competition is very weak compared to Jones/GSP. THERE is no comparison whatsoever.

Yes but it's hard to see him losing right now. Poirier is a good(not great) test. Holloway, Ferguson, and others will eventually come to the table and those are big names. We'll see how he does.

The only problem is guys like Ferguson say they like 'fighting off their back' so they welcome being taken down but I think they'll regret it.

 

[Kriss E]

Before his loss to Stipe DC was undefeated at HW. If he lost to Jones there Jones would've taken DC's unblemished record in his natural weight division.

DC and JJ both want(ed) to fight at LHW though but even Dana White was pushing for this fight at heavyweight because of how big it would be.

Again...so what man? If JJ didn't want to fight DC at HW..who cares?

GSP had trouble bulking remaining 185 for his middleweight fight. The highest he reached while bulking is 200 lbs. Khabib is hits 200 lbs for 155... Costa hit 230-235 for 185, etc...

Maybe not a small but he wasn't a huge WW, he just appared so. He had a lot of trouble retaining weight for middleweight because he's generally not a heavy guy.

GSP was a big WW, I really don't know what you're talking about here. That was an advantage of his.
GSP has gone on record to say his walking weight is usually around 185. Other reports he walks around 190-195.
UFC: How Much Weight Do Anderson Silva and Georges St. Pierre Cut?

GSP is ripped AF. If it's true he has trouble bulking to 200 it's probably because he's trying to do it while remaining shredded.

Uh no.

July 29th, 2017:



At 3:30 he calls out Lesnar. This isn't twitter trolling.

-----------------

Feb 15th, 2019:

(Talking about Valesquez fight)

“For now let’s just focus on the fights ahead of us,” Jones wrote. “My heavyweight days are inevitable.”

-----------------

March 1st, 2019:

(He changes his stance)

“I think people want me to go to heavyweight because, quite frankly, they want to see me lose,” Jones told MMA Fighting at UFC 235’s open workouts, “or get close to it, or take some serious damage — and at heavyweight, the risk goes up tremendously. These guys are a lot bigger than me. And they say all the time, when you get a talented little guy versus a talented big guy, the odds are in the big guy’s favor, right? So I think that’s the pressure.

“I don’t think it’s fair, really, because I’ve always been a light heavyweight. Despite who the champion’s been, I’ve never challenged anybody at heavyweight. And I feel like I’ll move up to heavyweight on my own terms, when I feel like the UFC’s playing ball with me contractually to entertain that. No one’s entertaining any idea of switching the contract for any superfights, so we’re just kinda stuck at this spot here, fighting at light heavyweight.”

"Talented little guy"...please. Stipe and him would be same weight. He says vs Thiago he went Lean and will be 221 on fight night. Stipe was 230. This is nonsensical.

"I never challenged a heavyweight"...uh, lesnar?

-----------------------------

May 14th, 2019:

(Admits DC can beat him at HW)

“But me coming up short, I’m a realist. Daniel Cormier is a special athlete and everyone can be beat. I think my greatest chance of losing would be to a guy like Daniel Cormier, with giving him a power and strength advantage over me, it just doesn’t make sense.

“Right now I make light heavyweight very easily and it just wouldn’t make no sense to fight a guy who I think technically [is] on your level, and to give him a size advantage, I’m not doing it. I’m not doing it. I’m sure my fans don’t like to hear me talk like that, but that’s just me being a realist and being respectful to Daniel’s abilities.”

Cormier came in at 236.5 on the scale for UFC 241. Are you actually telling me Jones is nowhere near that size if he doesn't cut? C'mon man. Jones doesn't want to fight DC at HW even though Jones will still have the bigger height, reach and can easily match DC in weight if he didn't cut.


----------------------------

August 7th, 2019:

(Brings up lesnar again, implies Stipe is extremely big and he is extremely small)

"I feel like if I was going to take a fight at heavyweight it would be against a person who me and my coaches feel would be a perfect matchup for me," Jones said at the UFC 214 post-fight press conference. "Right now, Stipe is looking extremely impressive. And I believe if you get an extremely talented big guy versus an extremely talented little guy, I mean, a lot of the cards are in his favor. At the same time, I fear no man. I strike for a reason when I strike.

"I feel like Stipe is relatively unknown to the general public. It wouldn't even be a real superfight in my opinion. I think a lot of MMA fans would be super excited about it, but the general public wouldn't care about that fight."

Full out says he cares about superfights.


Anyway, this conversation is going in circles. Obviously JJ is the best right now. No question. I think he is playing the 'little guy' card a lot though when he really isn't...He's willing to fight Lesnar who is like 285 on fight night but not Stipe who is 230???

It's his choice and like GSP did, he doesn't NEED to do anything. He can fight at LHW his entire career if he wants but taking risks helps your legacy. It absolutely does. Does he need the boost? Maybe not. He's undefeated, he's a beast. One day the loss will eventually come and he'll regret not moving up earlier though.

I never said JJ would have trouble making HW so I don't know why you keep harping on this honestly.
I told you this before, it made no sense for JJ to want to jump to HW and fight DC. As he said, he's good at LHW, he has this unstoppable aura, he's beaten DC twice, jumping to a category to give his nemesis another shot and the advantage would be quite silly.
Fighting a guy like Lesnar...same reason anybody would be interested, it would be the biggest draw.
Stipe fight would be a different challenge.

I don't know why you keep saying the loss will come one day. He could retire soon too, or since you keep calling him a f*** up, he could get caught doing some stupid crap and get banned.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

How can anyone watch Khabib and say he's overrated? Look at his technique.. he's a god tier wrestler and he's ALWAYS pressuring. He forces you to fight at his pace, eventually he'll wear you out. His pressuring/pace/technique is unmatched in MMA.

And his competition has been extremely weak. Who has he beat?

 

[TT1]

And his competition has been extremely weak. Who has he beat?

You discredit yourself by saying GSP fought tough opponents and Khabib doesnt. No one wants to fight vs Khabib, he used to fight whoever he could.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

You discredit yourself by saying GSP fought tough opponents and Khabib doesnt. No one wants to fight vs Khabib, he used to fight whoever he could.

Sure I do, GSP only fought a murderers row of WW's while khabib has a padded record against a ton of bums.

GSP wanted to fight Khabib. Who doesn't want to fight him? I think you a bit caught up in the khabib propaganda, hype machine. It is you who has lost credibility if you think GSP/Khabib's competition are even close to being comparable. They're not.

 

[TT1]

Sure I do, GSP only fought a murderers row of WW's while khabib has a padded record against a ton of bums.

GSP wanted to fight Khabib. Who doesn't want to fight him? I think you a bit caught up in the khabib propaganda, hype machine. It is you who has lost credibility if you think GSP/Khabib's competition are even close to being comparable. They're not.

How long have you been watching MMA for? I'm genuinely interested in knowing, no offense but you don't seem very knowledgeable. And no shit if GSP fought Khabib he'd have an edge, GSP is basically a bigger Khabib. Khabib's game is very similar to GSP's.. but he's smaller. GSP definitely didn't fight a murderers row of WW's, a murders row would be fighting Woodley-esque fighters which he never has. Even for his comeback he hand picked his fight vs Bisping.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

How long have you been watching MMA for? I'm genuinely interested in knowing, no offense but you don't seem very knowledgeable. And no **** if GSP fought Khabib he'd have an edge, GSP is basically a bigger Khabib. Khabib's game is very similar to GSP's.. but he's smaller. GSP definitely didn't fight a murderers row of WW's, a murders row would be fighting Woodley-esque fighters which he never has. Even for his comeback he hand picked his fight vs Bisping.

What a laughable post, talking about my knowledge and questioning how long I've been watching and then saying GSP and khabib are very similar other than size.

The only similarity they have is that they are both elite wrestlers. Their styles and entries are completely different. Khabib is pressure fighter who likes to chain wrestle by pressuring without much setup. GSP has the explosiveness while setting up his takedowns with his standup. Not very similar at all. GSP has much a more rounded game and a higher success rate on his takedowns because his style is much different than Khabib's
The fight starts standing and he would jab khabib into oblivion.

I'm not going to entertain your question about how long I've been following MMA other than to say most probably as long as you, if not longer.

Woodley lol, guy was left defenseless against RM. You sure Khabib/mcgregor wasn't your first fight?

How much do you think Khabib walks around at BTW?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think Khabib walks at a higher weight in off-season than GSP.

I heard GSP reached 200 when prepping for Bisping at 185 lbs.
I also heard Khabib has hit 200 in off-season for a 155er.

Of course, this may just be a rare case but Khabib is a pretty big 155er.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/27442458/ufc-conor-mcgregor-struggles-future

There are several clips of the interview around but here's the transcript.

 

[Kriss E]

I think Khabib walks at a higher weight in off-season than GSP.

I heard GSP reached 200 when prepping for Bisping at 185 lbs.
I also heard Khabib has hit 200 in off-season for a 155er.

Of course, this may just be a rare case but Khabib is a pretty big 155er.

How Khabib Cuts Weight & How Much Does He Actually Weigh?
According to this website..they say he hovers around 185, which is about what GSP said he usually walks around at too. GSP has a bigger frame.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think Tony should get the winner of Khabib/Poirer for sure... Nate vs Conor or Jorge would both be great but beating Jorge puts him in legit WW title shot contention that could then setup the trilogy fight for the WW belt.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

How Khabib Cuts Weight & How Much Does He Actually Weigh?
According to this website..they say he hovers around 185, which is about what GSP said he usually walks around at too. GSP has a bigger frame.

And yet Khabib fights at 155 and GSP at 170. Some guys cut more than others, not just Khabib. The article mentioned guys like Lee, Till, etc... who cut a lot too. GSP wasn't one to cut a lot.

 

[Kriss E]

And yet Khabib fights at 155 and GSP at 170. Some guys cut more than others, not just Khabib. The article mentioned guys like Lee, Till, etc... who cut a lot too. GSP wasn't one to cut a lot.

Okay....was just pointing out what his alleged weight is.

 

[DangerDave]

How long have you been watching MMA for? I'm genuinely interested in knowing, no offense but you don't seem very knowledgeable. And no **** if GSP fought Khabib he'd have an edge, GSP is basically a bigger Khabib. Khabib's game is very similar to GSP's.. but he's smaller. GSP definitely didn't fight a murderers row of WW's, a murders row would be fighting Woodley-esque fighters which he never has. Even for his comeback he hand picked his fight vs Bisping.

Gotta disagree there. The WW division back then was just insane. Easily the toughest division.

 

[TT1]

Gotta disagree there. The WW division back then was just insane. Easily the toughest division.

Relative to now tho? Fighters have come a long way since those days, to do what Khabib is doing today is insane.

 

[Kriss E]

Relative to now tho? Fighters have come a long way since those days, to do what Khabib is doing today is insane.

Not really insane anymore though..His beatdown on McGregor was impressive, I'd like to see him do more of that versus top opponents.

What guys like GSP and A.Silva were doing in their days was crazy. It was clearly a level above their peers. They were innovating the sport.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Relative to now tho? Fighters have come a long way since those days, to do what Khabib is doing today is insane.

Yes relative to now, sports and humans don't evolve nearly as quickly as fans like to think.

Khabib has never beat an elite wrestler. I'm not saying he can't, just that he hasn't yet. Tibau gave him fits and arguably won their fight. I don't see what khabib has done that is so impressive.

GSP fought tons of elite wrestlers/grapplers, kos x2, shields, fitch and on and on. Many said gsp wrestled lhw in training and gave them fits. A lot has to change for khabib to be in the same discussion as GSP. As of now it's not even close.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I think Khabib walks at a higher weight in off-season than GSP.

I heard GSP reached 200 when prepping for Bisping at 185 lbs.
I also heard Khabib has hit 200 in off-season for a 155er.

Of course, this may just be a rare case but Khabib is a pretty big 155er.

It was a rhetorical question for the poster who claimed the main difference between gsp and khabib was size.

Not really a great analysis of these 2 fighters and then tried to insinuate my knowledge/fandom of the sport was somehow lacking compared to his.