OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion X
- Thread starter Kriss E
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It's pretty obvious why.
DC wanted to retire before he turned 40 but was delayed due to injury.
DC said he would only fight Jones after this one, IF anyone. It was Jones or nothing.
Now he lost to Stipe and there's some mystique gone. It's not champ vs champ if he fought Jones. It's guy coming off a loss vs champ now. DC had only lost to a guy who was caught on steriods...now he lost to Stipe as well.
It's a legit question and Rogan and him commentate together pretty regularly, he knows.
IMO Cormier retires. There is nothing left for him.
He can either do a 3rd match with Stipe or Jones but who knows if he feels like pushing for either.
BehindTheTimes
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- Jun 24, 2018
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Odd fight, wasn't impressed with DC. The way he was coming forward with his hands down and the complete lack of respect he showed towards Stipes power was really, really, really odd.
The outcome was entirely predictable because I said it to the guys next me. This won't end well for DC. HE was tagging Miocic with some pretty good shots, but man he was eating a ton himself. I'd have to watch the 2nd round again, but I think Stipe might have won that round. I'm not convinced he was up on the scirecards like many seem to think at the time of the knockout
The outcome was entirely predictable because I said it to the guys next me. This won't end well for DC. HE was tagging Miocic with some pretty good shots, but man he was eating a ton himself. I'd have to watch the 2nd round again, but I think Stipe might have won that round. I'm not convinced he was up on the scirecards like many seem to think at the time of the knockout
Not really. Guy lost at 40 and has only lost to 2 people:
A noted steroid taker
A guy he’s 1–1 with
GSP lost to people and avenged his losses so he’s 1-1 with a few people. DC is 1-1 with Stipe.
He’s still very much in the discussion but losses hurt. Until Jones, Khabib and others lose they’re projecting to be front runners at this pace.
The lost to Serra was a fluke.
GSP lost early, his long reign of dominance came after.
DC couldn't beat the Champ in his own division. Stipe also showed me what I thought from their first fight, DC got a bit lucky.
Not taking anything away from DC, hes a terrific fighter, just not part of the GOAT discussion.
DramaticGloveSave
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Lost twice to Jones and lost again this time to Stipe.
The first fight felt a bit like a Serra moment to me.
How so given he likely won first 3 rounds no problem and was cruising to a victory?
DC even said he got caught up boxing but game plan was to wrestle Stipe more.
If DC did that he would've kept himself out of danger. End of the day though, he didn't and Stipe made a big adjustment for the win.
It's 1-1.
The way Jones looked as of late he has trouble with a guy with destroyed knees. I actually had Thiago winning but it happens. Jones off PEDs looks very very beatable.
At this point DC, Jones and Stipe aside Khabib is undefeated. I know how long long Costa and Israel will stay undefeated but a huge string of wins and can put them on the map but very premature.
It's always evolving.
Obviously if DC does not reclaim any belt it makes it harder for him to claim GOAT but time will always tell. Once some guys start to lose these notions change dramatically. Jones was close to losing to Santos, what if next guy beats him? What if someone beats him when he too starts to age? What if Stipe loses to Ngannou next fight or DC if a triology happens?
You only know when every single guy finishes their career. If DC retires the loss hurts but every loss hurts. He'll go down among the best but not the best barring losses from others.
I had him 2-1 leading not 3-0, and it seemed like Stipe in the first two rounds was either just rusty or giving DC way too much respect. He wasn't moving, he wasn't throwing much, he seemed very uncomfortable out there. He looked nothing like the Stipe the Champ. That started to change in the 3rd rd where he started looking more like himself, and in the 4th he found his way back in.
If DC would have just stuck to wrestling, you don't know what would have happened so don't speak of it like it were a fact. Heck, in your own argument you say DC won the first 3 rds ''no problem'' and yet Stipe owned and finished him in the 4th.
As of late?...You mean in the one fight he won? Oh..wait...he didn't look like a God...therefore this time, and this time alone, must be that he's off the PEDs..loll Can't be anything else.
Of course you had Thiago winning, you hate JJ. Reality is he lost and DC lost twice to him.
Or you including the Smith and Guvs fights too? Because he owned those guys.
It's not just about winning or losing. Most of the guys in the GOAT discussion have lost, GSP, A.Silva, Fedor. What makes them special isn't just their long reigns but also how they broke down fights.
Again, the discussion isn't whether or not DC was an amazing fighter, he is/was. But to be part of the GOAT discussion, you need something extra. Khabib could be in the discussion but I don't like the Lightweight division...I feel its weak, but his level of dominance cannot go unmentioned.
People lose fights they're ahead in. Remember Chael vs Silva first match? Sonnen was on pace for an upset win, got choked in round 5. Happens.
It was a split decision win for JJ, you make it sound like I'm inventing it.
Ah yes the Gus fight where they had to move entire card because he was still popping for steroids?
Either way many in the MMA community have questioned his ability the further out he is from popping and now doing frequent tests. Sonnen, Corey Anderson, etc... off top of my head said his performances are not as good.
Of course, he's a stud even without PEDs so he'll win most fights regardless.
I'm unsure what this means, it's vague. DC has 1 registered loss in each of the biggest divisions in the ufc. Everybody knows heavyweight is more volatile as well, hence Stipe's record for consecutive defenses at 3 being so low. For HW that's huge.
LHW is also hard of course and there was a time when JJ took on some big names but a lot were 185s moving up although a prime Silva was never one of them. Not JJ's fault but that would've added to the legacy for sure.
That said JJ is definitely the front runner but his legacy is super volatile IMO. Another 'tainted' substance or an eventual loss might change the dynamic quickly. He's such a moron the former is bound to happen IMO. He's always in trouble.
For what it's worth DC, JJ and others aside these rankings change quickly. When Woodley was champ it was "GSP don't want to touch him, Woodley would smoke him" then Usman crushed Woodley and no one is saying Woodley is greatest WW of all time anymore. One loss changes a lot.
Until it happens however, guys like JJ and Khabib will have that aura about them. I actually think LW is more competitive than LHW. When guys like Ferguson haven't even challenged yet it's crazy. I don't know who's even next at LHW. Jones was suspended for 2 years and he had only 3 frontrunners? Jeez. At WW Colby, Woodley, Edwards, Masvidal, etc... were all talked about as opponents. LHW is stale at times. It was assumed a guy like rockhold would move up and maybe cut the line for a fight but he got smoked. Maybe Weidman will win his fight and be next but even he seems in over his head. The prospects in Reyes, Walker, etc... are still a little raw for now.
So?
Of course the haters will be quick to jump on Jones and they pretend like all the fights he's won, he looked great because he was on PEDs even if not positive. That last fight though...that's the only one people point to as him being off PEDs.
Still popping roids during Gus fight? Do you know what a picogram is? It's one trillionth of a gram. That's why they moved it. The amount was so insignificant it made absolutely no sense for them to pull him out of a card. It's also why he was never suspended for it. But yes dude....he was popping dem roids!
Again, it's not about just one loss. It's about the sheer dominance they put vs their peers.
A.Silva lost and he's been losing a whole lot, still, to me I put him ahead of GSP in the Goat talk because of how insanely sharp he was and his ability to finish opponents. I just don't feel the same way about DC as I do when speaking of GSP, JJ, Fedor or A.Silva. He's a notch below, and that's not a diss.
It's like McGregor, excellent fighter, but not in the GOAT discussion to me.
He was clearly in the fight. He just didn't adjust and full credit to Stipe and even to Jones in their second fight. They saw an opening and took it, DC got too comfortable and they exploited it.
A guy like TJ was taking EPO and wasn't caught until later but we don't know if he was taking EPO entire career. When it comes to Jones he's been heavily tested as of late and yes the Gus win was a finish and a great one at that. The Smith fight he dominated but couldn't close. I think he lost vs Thiago. I love GSP for example but there is the argument he lost vs Hendricks too. Doesn't make hendricks better but if one judge had seen a single round differently GSP's legacy would look different. They're huge blows.
DC has 15 finishes in 22 wins.
Jones has 16 finishes in 25 wins.
Let me guess...finishing opponents doesn't apply now?
The thing that makes some of the greats special is how they took on new challenges. DJ was killing flyweight for years but Cejudo winning 2 belts in a short time is pushing the envelope.
Conor winning 2 belts, Nunes winning 2 belts, etc...
JJ has openly said he doesn't want to fight DC at heavyweight:
DC was 236. Stipe was 230. Are you really telling me without cutting and/or putting a little mass Jones is not 230 himself? What a crock of shit.
Jones would probably beat DC at heavyweight too, he's that talented and in his prime to boot but being caught twice for PEDs, not willing to take on a new challenge and so on hurts his legacy. It makes it volatile. If Jones loses in his prime the whole discussion will change.
We talk about dominance. DC has lost 1 round his entire HW career. 1 single round...that was round 4 of last fight. He has no lost a round. How is that not dominant?
At LHW I think he only lost rounds to a select few people like Jones and Gus but maybe Rumble too, unsure.
That's pretty spectacular. These aren't split decision wins everyday(Not a shot at Jones as he only has one of those). These are finishes, dominance and title reigns over 2 divisions.
DC is the first and only UFC fighter to successfully defend a belt in 2 divisions. Conor hasn't, Cejudo hasn't, Nunes hasn't. That's history, that's dominance.
At end of the day though Jones just has the natural advantage. Bigger reach, boatload of talent, etc...but he will eventually lose and if he loses to a Santos and not a Stipe that will hurt his legacy way more. People can forgive Conor losing to Khabib or Mayweather but they won't forgive him losing to Paul Felder or some shit.
In any case, JJ IS the best if we assume he's been clean his whole career (Given his brothers get caught for roids like he does...I doubt it) BUT because of his weird history a loss would be very damaging. A USADA flag would be catastrophic, etc... He's on the brink of being Gretzky or being banned.
Mike Mike Caron
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Jones beat DC when DC was in his prime though. I love DC and he's clearly top-10 best fighter of all time.
When GSP went a division up to fight Bisping, he didn't do it with a lucky punch, he completely emasculated Micheal Bisping.
Yes, he lost.
Funny how you talk about PEDs but then leave out how Hendricks was using IVs which are considered illegal by USADA leading to what he, himself, views as why he went 1-5 after they signed with the UFC.
But hey....Jones had one trillionth of a gram!!!! He was poppin' dem roids!
Of course he doesn't want to fight DC at HW, why would he want to fight him, period? He beat him twice...like...why go at it a third time and to make it even more favorable for DC, do it at a higher weight class where JJ isn't used to fighting?? Oh ya...what a smart thing to do that would be.
Finishing applies yea, it isn't the be-all-end-all.
Yes....DC lost 1 rd in his HW reign...loll He got a lucky punch in that KO'd Stipe. Then he fought the amazing Derrick Lewis..loll..who was losing to Volkov until he got a desperate punch with 11 seconds left in the fight to land. Fact he even got a HW title shot was a joke in itself. But ya....DC beat him in 2 rounds...Bravo. GOAT!
And while the judges gave DC the three rounds in the last fight, I saw him slow down in the third and Stipe was starting to fight like his old self. I'm not surprised with what transpired in the 4th.
I just read Stipe's comments and he pretty much described exactly what I told you after the fight.
In any event. This isn't to discuss whether or not DC is a great fighter. He is. I just don't think he's part of the GOAT discussion.
GOAT HW? No. Fedor hands down.
GOAT LHW? No. JJ and it's not even close.
Sorry DC, you ain't part of the discussion.
Hendricks was definitely on something. He just wasn't caught as it was pre USADA. I think he was more than just IVs.
I'm not praising Hendricks, only suggesting GSP's legacy would look different if he lost to someone being a likely cheater....
Jones tested positive several times.
Why would he want to fight him? PPV buys? Money fight? Legacy? He would've gotten the HW strap if he did...
It all depends, how much do you think Jones weighs during camp?
Not HW title reign. DC has a lot of fights at HW going back to strikeforce where he was HW camp. He has lost one HW round in his entire career, not just this year.
I would've loved to see Fedor in the UFC. I think he and DC were in strikeforce at same time too. Sucks they never fought.
Of course if he lost it would be different. If any top fighter loses during a run, it could make things differently. Not an earth shattering revelation here mate.
But again, he beat him twice. Risk it all to go fight a 3rd time in a different weight class?...Doesn't make much sense. He doesn't need to do this for his Legacy, he's already considered GOAT by many. He's never lost really, even his Hamil fight, he was destroying him. It's stupid they awarded him a lost and they might reverse it now apparently.
No idea how heavy he is. It's irrelevant.
Ya it's too bad. I put my money on Fedor in his prime vs anybody you throw at him. He was destroying Pride when that was considered the top fighting organization.
That's my point. Jones will lose eventually and given DC and Stipe are guys on the way out he's eventually going to lose to a Hendricks level talent. Not because he's a worse fighter but eventually you get caught, you're human. Same with Khabib unless the rumors of him retiring early are true.
Yeah they tried to overturn that loss and for good reason. He never was even close to losing and the rule f***ed him.
So money, two titles, legacy, etc... ALL combined couldn't motivate someone? Really? Jones has said a move to HW is inevitable but when given opportunity to fight for a title in a huge money fight he was against it?
Look, he's likely as heavy as Stipe...that's the point. DC hadn't fought HW since 2013 and he made the jump.
Yeah Fedor is one of the GOATs too but I would've loved to see him fight in the UFC. It's kind of like Askren who dominated but in other organizations. As you said though, at least Pride was considered the top when he was in it.
Anyway, time will tell with these things. Maybe DC does trilogy with Stipe and avenges his HW loss, maybe he retires. Maybe Jones wins the next 50, maybe he loses 5 in a row. Maybe Stipe gets smoked by Ngannou. Who knows.
Or he might retire soon...who knows...not sure what the point of this is.
Fedor hands down HW GOAT.
JJ hands down LHW GOAT.
A.Silva hands down MDW GOAT.
GSP hands down WW GOAT.
Again, he doesn't need to risk that. He risks everything to give DC a 3rd chance to win and at a weight class where DC is much more experience fighting in.
It's a stupid decision to take this on. Just like it made no sense for GSP to move up to fight A.Silva no matter how insane the revenue would have been. GSP understood this.
Yes..impossible to know, if Pride was not the top rated fighting promotion, then Fedor would get less recognition but that wasn't the case. Pride had the best guys and Fedor was a monster.
pistolpete11
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Mike Mike Caron
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Khabib, Tony, Gaethje, Poirier, Hernandez, Gillespie, Makhachev, Cerrone, Felder, Iaquinta, Santos, Barboza.
You have to go through a lot of killers before you can have a shot at Khabib.
You have to go through a lot of killers before you can have a shot at Khabib.
That's not necessarily how it works.
If a fighter wins titles in every single division(for example) but isn't the GOAT of that division he may still have a claim for greatest P4P of all time. Translating your success to multiple weight classes helps your cause. It doesn't put DC above JJ at the moment though. If he would've beat Stipe it would've been more interesting but he lost.
Why is about giving DC a chance to win? DC would've been putting his belt on the line and had more to lose in his legacy than Jones.
GSP was a small WW though...Jones is a big LHW...
LHW and HW are different because at every other weight class people cut to the limit. At HW some people are 35 pounds under the limit(Stipe for example). If Jones just didn't cut...he'd be as big as Stipe. He's not the undersized fighter. He has more reach than most heavyweights.
This is all moot anyway because Jones said he'll fight at HW one day but when it was against DC he changed his mind.
He was willing to tease fighting Stipe and Lesnar but DC? He wasn't interested.
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