OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion IX

[LyricalLyricist]

There seems to be some heat between DJ and the UFC so I could see DJ being okay with the idea of a move . He's been very vocal in the past about feeling disrespected by Dana and the front office . On the UFC's end, they've felt for a long time that the guy just doesn't draw and now that's he's lost the belt they can move away from him without much consequences. It's a case of both parties wanting a change I guess.

After some digging it seems there's talk of scrapping that division but who knows...

Also, it seems as though DJ is well connected with ONE members in his gym...from management to teammates. Since he's been wanting more money I bet UFC thinks he would've jumped to ONE after his current deal anyway.

 

[Kriss E]

There seems to be some heat between DJ and the UFC so I could see DJ being okay with the idea of a move . He's been very vocal in the past about feeling disrespected by Dana and the front office . On the UFC's end, they've felt for a long time that the guy just doesn't draw and now that's he's lost the belt they can move away from him without much consequences. It's a case of both parties wanting a change I guess.

I think that division as a whole will never be a draw. All those kids size divisions actually...I mean...125lbs..what the hell. I don't know why they need fly-bantam-feather-lightweight divisions.
125-135-145-155....They should merge two of these, or at the very least eliminate one.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I've stated before that I like the lighter division fights just fine but I can see how the more casual audience can look at two 125 guys in the octagon and think it's kinda silly looking. That said, I can remember a time when Pride FC was just introducing lightweight fights and had the big tournament and how a lot of people thought that would never sell either. Look at how popular a lot of the smaller fighters turned out to be just a few years later ( Faber, Conor, etc.) . To me it's more of a personality/style thing and DJ, for all his amazing talent, just isn't charismatic.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I've stated before that I like the lighter division fights just fine but I can see how the more casual audience can look at two 125 guys in the octagon and think it's kinda silly looking. That said, I can remember a time when Pride FC was just introducing lightweight fights and had the big tournament and how a lot of people thought that would never sell either. Look at how popular a lot of the smaller fighters turned out to be just a few years later ( Faber, Conor, etc.) . To me it's more of a personality/style thing and DJ, for all his amazing talent, just isn't charismatic.

Conor isn't necessarily small. He's probably 5'9 170-175 with low body fat %. Isn't 5'9-5'10 average height for guys?

It's also somewhat of an issue in pro wrestling too. A lot of the favorites are the larger than life characters, the Brock, Batista, etc... who are jacked.

Then there's the leaner, although acrobatic types who may put on a show but don't really headline or get big pushes. There's the exceptions obviously but people tend to prefer bigger, more imposing types in that space too.

Not saying it's ONLY that but flyweights are behind by virtue of size. DJ did everything he could do to be likeable and relatable but still didn't generate huge interest.​

 

[TRG]

Conor McGregor provides round-by-round analysis of 'fair and square' loss to Khabib
His analysis is pretty spot on and honest, I'll give him that. This is being very gracious in defeat, which to be fair to the guy, he always is. Conor certainly has his warts but he never has any issues about admiting he's been beaten.

Spot on? What?

First, he separated "fight" and "sport", which is a classic excuse for "you didn't stand up with me". He got held to the ground, yes and it's part of the strategy. See GSP vs Penn, GSP explains that because of the morphology of BJ, holding him against the cage will make his shoulders tire so much that he won't be able to land anything. What did Conor land after being held to the ground? That's right, nothing. Nothing of danger.

Then, he says the punch that knocked him down was lucky. Really? You're in a fight, standing up, where it's supposed to be where you have the advantage. And without any external intervention. And you say it's lucky? How f***ing delusional. He didn't defend it properly because he didn't want to be taken down again. And to Khabib's credit, that punch was lightning fast.

Then, later in his post, he says his energy recovery wasn't where he wanted it to be. Well no shit, you got mauled and held to the ground two of the three rounds. And you're already not renowned for cardio...

I find he lost his mind. Plus, he doesn't need this anymore too.

But yeah, his post reads like a bunch of excuses.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Spot on? What?

First, he separated "fight" and "sport", which is a classic excuse for "you didn't stand up with me". He got held to the ground, yes and it's part of the strategy. See GSP vs Penn, GSP explains that because of the morphology of BJ, holding him against the cage will make his shoulders tire so much that he won't be able to land anything. What did Conor land after being held to the ground? That's right, nothing. Nothing of danger.

Then, he says the punch that knocked him down was lucky. Really? You're in a fight, standing up, where it's supposed to be where you have the advantage. And without any external intervention. And you say it's lucky? How ****ing delusional. He didn't defend it properly because he didn't want to be taken down again. And to Khabib's credit, that punch was lightning fast.

Then, later in his post, he says his energy recovery wasn't where he wanted it to be. Well no ****, you got mauled and held to the ground two of the three rounds. And you're already not renowned for cardio...

I find he lost his mind. Plus, he doesn't need this anymore too.

But yeah, his post reads like a bunch of excuses.

I've seen guys never even admit they've lost the fight in the first place, I really thought he was being fair to an acceptable level in his post.I guess I've got very low standards as far as these things go.

 

[Kriss E]

I've seen guys never even admit they've lost the fight in the first place, I really thought he was being fair to an acceptable level in his post.I guess I've got very low standards as far as these things go.

I agree that you set some low standards for yourself..hahah

I don't think CM gave an objective breakdown at all. I mean, he admits he lost fair and square...cool...but I mean, he gives very little credit to Khabib.
Khabib wore him down but he keeps saying how “how took no damage”. Nah man, he did, Khabib owned him.

I'm surprised by his approach to training for this fight. Did they think they could raise his wrestling and grappling up to a level where he could hang with Khabib? That was never going to happen. He should have studied and studied to find one or two flaws that could have been exploited and then sharpen his strength.
I'm very surprised how they prepared. Seems like such a rookie mistake.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I'm surprised by his approach to training for this fight. Did they think they could raise his wrestling and grappling up to a level where he could hang with Khabib? That was never going to happen. He should have studied and studied to find one or two flaws that could have been exploited and then sharpen his strength.
I'm very surprised how they prepared. Seems like such a rookie mistake.

I think it's possible the whole '' getting so much money out of the Mayweather fight is going to make Conor real lazy'' narrative actually came true, at least partially. He might just not be all that hungry anymore and willing to cut a lot of corners in his training . It's not like losing is going to hurt his value right now and he knows it. Maybe the rest of his career is just going to be win some/lose some depending on style alone.

 

[Kriss E]

I think it's possible the whole '' getting so much money out of the Mayweather fight is going to make Conor real lazy'' narrative actually came true, at least partially. He might just not be all that hungry anymore and willing to cut a lot of corners in his training . It's not like losing is going to hurt his value right now and he knows it. Maybe the rest of his career is just going to be win some/lose some depending on style alone.

Sure, I could see that, but that doesn't explain it because this should be coming from his coaches.
They just poorly strategized, very poorly.

They must have known Khabib was bringing this to the ground and he wasn't going to prevent that. They could train 24h per day leading up to the fight, CM was not going to stop Khabib from taking him down.
They should have planned better strategies on how to keep him at bay, and worked on CM's striking to make it even more efficient. He will see the amount of punches he throws at him cut significantly, so he better make every single on of them count even more.
Instead of foolishly spending so much time defending wrestling...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Spot on? What?

First, he separated "fight" and "sport", which is a classic excuse for "you didn't stand up with me". He got held to the ground, yes and it's part of the strategy. See GSP vs Penn, GSP explains that because of the morphology of BJ, holding him against the cage will make his shoulders tire so much that he won't be able to land anything. What did Conor land after being held to the ground? That's right, nothing. Nothing of danger.

Then, he says the punch that knocked him down was lucky. Really? You're in a fight, standing up, where it's supposed to be where you have the advantage. And without any external intervention. And you say it's lucky? How ****ing delusional. He didn't defend it properly because he didn't want to be taken down again. And to Khabib's credit, that punch was lightning fast.

Then, later in his post, he says his energy recovery wasn't where he wanted it to be. Well no ****, you got mauled and held to the ground two of the three rounds. And you're already not renowned for cardio...

I find he lost his mind. Plus, he doesn't need this anymore too.

But yeah, his post reads like a bunch of excuses.

I think there's always bias from people who want to be the best at something. I don't think Conor said anything wrong, there was some bias in there but that is normal with everyone. I too thought it was fairly accurate and not based on excuses.

I don't see where he said Khabib's punch was lucky.

Round 2 he is running away around the cage before being blessed with a right hand that changed the course of the round, and the fight.
It was a nice shot.
After the shot I bounced back up to engage instantly, but again he dipped under to disengage. That is the sport and it was a smart move that led to a dominant round, so no issue. Well played.

Half the time he's giving props...

If I stay switched on and give his stand up even a little more respect, that right hand never gets close and we are talking completely different now.
I gave his upright fighting no respect in preparation. No specific stand up spars whatsoever.
Attacking grapplers/wrestlers only.
That won’t happen again.
I also gave my attacking grappling no respect. To defense minded.
Lessons.
Listen to nobody but yourself on your skill set.
You are the master of your own universe.
I am the master of this.
I must take my own advice.

He's critiquing himself and his own mistake. It's not shocking for a striker to know what he did wrong on stand up vs a non striker.

Honestly, I didn't think it was anything special. He just commented on the fight. If anything it shows a little of a competitive streak that he didn't just walk off with money and not care.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I agree that you set some low standards for yourself..hahah

I don't think CM gave an objective breakdown at all. I mean, he admits he lost fair and square...cool...but I mean, he gives very little credit to Khabib.
Khabib wore him down but he keeps saying how “how took no damage”. Nah man, he did, Khabib owned him.

I'm surprised by his approach to training for this fight. Did they think they could raise his wrestling and grappling up to a level where he could hang with Khabib? That was never going to happen. He should have studied and studied to find one or two flaws that could have been exploited and then sharpen his strength.
I'm very surprised how they prepared. Seems like such a rookie mistake.

He said he didn't take damage in his first round analysis...which I would agree is fairly accurate. Was boring round and he managed energy well. The other rounds he gives credit.

I think they expected Khabib's stand up to be so bad that if he can handle his takedowns and start on the feet next round he'd get the KO. I agree with CM there, playing not to lose. Playing Khabib's game.

I think it's possible the whole '' getting so much money out of the Mayweather fight is going to make Conor real lazy'' narrative actually came true, at least partially. He might just not be all that hungry anymore and willing to cut a lot of corners in his training . It's not like losing is going to hurt his value right now and he knows it. Maybe the rest of his career is just going to be win some/lose some depending on style alone.

I would've retired...or I guess be filled with greed because 50-100 million dollars a fight is work taking punches to the face.

Losing does drop his value. Not tremendously but he knows if he wins his stock goes up, his sales for notorious go up, etc...

Sure, I could see that, but that doesn't explain it because this should be coming from his coaches.
They just poorly strategized, very poorly.

They must have known Khabib was bringing this to the ground and he wasn't going to prevent that. They could train 24h per day leading up to the fight, CM was not going to stop Khabib from taking him down.
They should have planned better strategies on how to keep him at bay, and worked on CM's striking to make it even more efficient. He will see the amount of punches he throws at him cut significantly, so he better make every single on of them count even more.
Instead of foolishly spending so much time defending wrestling...

His takedown defense was not bad but it was survival mode. Khabib keeps going and going, eventually he'll get you. It's survival mode and bound to fail. You stop him or you suffer on the ground.

 

[Kriss E]

He said he didn't take damage in his first round analysis...which I would agree is fairly accurate. Was boring round and he managed energy well. The other rounds he gives credit.

I think they expected Khabib's stand up to be so bad that if he can handle his takedowns and start on the feet next round he'd get the KO. I agree with CM there, playing not to lose. Playing Khabib's game.

I didn't see much credit given, just a bit, the rest sounds like excuses from him. How is the first round his by ''fight standard''?..Like..if this was a street fight? Or did he mean from just standing up?..What does that even mean?
And he did take damage in the first round. Khabib took him down and grinded him out. He fatigued his arms and shoulders trying to wrestle out.
All of this + other rounds lead to him being low in the tank by the forth.

His takedown defense was not bad but it was survival mode. Khabib keeps going and going, eventually he'll get you. It's survival mode and bound to fail. You stop him or you suffer on the ground.

I think it was incredibly ineffective. Khabib keeps on going, you're right, and that was already a well established reputation.
Khabib controlled the entire fight. It went where he wanted it to go. Even the 3rd round where he says he bounced back and won, it only happened because Khabib decided to keep standing up with him. Honestly, it was very close to being a clinic.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I didn't see much credit given, just a bit, the rest sounds like excuses from him. How is the first round his by ''fight standard''?..Like..if this was a street fight? Or did he mean from just standing up?..What does that even mean?
And he did take damage in the first round. Khabib took him down and grinded him out. He fatigued his arms and shoulders trying to wrestle out.
All of this + other rounds lead to him being low in the tank by the forth.

I think it was incredibly ineffective. Khabib keeps on going, you're right, and that was already a well established reputation.
Khabib controlled the entire fight. It went where he wanted it to go. Even the 3rd round where he says he bounced back and won, it only happened because Khabib decided to keep standing up with him. Honestly, it was very close to being a clinic.

I assume he meant strategic but that's definitely bias.

As for the second portion, couldn't agree more. I think McGregor showed some good defense but its like outrunning a cheetah. You can be faster than expected...you're still getting caught.

McGregor had wrong gameplan and even with the right one I don't think he can beat Khabib.

 

[Kriss E]

I assume he meant strategic but that's definitely bias.

As for the second portion, couldn't agree more. I think McGregor showed some good defense but its like outrunning a cheetah. You can be faster than expected...you're still getting caught.

McGregor had wrong gameplan and even with the right one I don't think he can beat Khabib.

I think CM's only chance was if Khabib decided to stand and exchange punches. That's what they should have worked on. Improve power stamina so that after all the grinding work on the ground, you still have highly efficient striking. They definitely need a completely different approach.
The only thing I really agree with CM on is how their gameplan was completely wrong and they didn't respect Khabib's game.

It was such a beatdown that it actually makes no sense to give CM a rematch. None whatsoever.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think CM's only chance was if Khabib decided to stand and exchange punches. That's what they should have worked on. Improve power stamina so that after all the grinding work on the ground, you still have highly efficient striking. They definitely need a completely different approach.
The only thing I really agree with CM on is how their gameplan was completely wrong and they didn't respect Khabib's game.

It was such a beatdown that it actually makes no sense to give CM a rematch. None whatsoever.

If I'm UFC I don't want to give him rematch either. It will kill his value.

I say UFC prays Ferguson beats Khabib then let CM fight Ferguson who is more manageable for his style.

Then again, I have no idea what Khabib is doing. I thought he was joking about Mayweather but he seems to have met boxing commission in Russia and suggested they can fill 100k seat stadium for the fight...

I sincerely hope Khabib isn't looking to box Mayweather BUT if he is I will enjoy watching him get KO'd. He should be competing in some sambo, wrestling or grabbling event...he'll get brain damage boxing.

 

[Kriss E]

If I'm UFC I don't want to give him rematch either. It will kill his value.

I say UFC prays Ferguson beats Khabib then let CM fight Ferguson who is more manageable for his style.

Then again, I have no idea what Khabib is doing. I thought he was joking about Mayweather but he seems to have met boxing commission in Russia and suggested they can fill 100k seat stadium for the fight...

I sincerely hope Khabib isn't looking to box Mayweather BUT if he is I will enjoy watching him get KO'd. He should be competing in some sambo, wrestling or grabbling event...he'll get brain damage boxing.

I would love to see CM vs Pettis and Ferguson vs Khabib.
I think CM vs Pettis would be a very entertaining fight. Ferguson vs Khabib, not sure, I really don't see anybody match up to Khabib.

As for the FMJ fight...just another money grab. CM opened the door to that. 100M purse...Khabib just made 2M for the CM one and only got 1M due to his post fight antics.
As much as Khabib says he doesn't care about money, he could probably buy Dagestan with all the cash he'd make, and if it's in Russia...100K arena filled would not surprise me at all.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I would love to see CM vs Pettis and Ferguson vs Khabib.
I think CM vs Pettis would be a very entertaining fight. Ferguson vs Khabib, not sure, I really don't see anybody match up to Khabib.

As for the FMJ fight...just another money grab. CM opened the door to that. 100M purse...Khabib just made 2M for the CM one and only got 1M due to his post fight antics.
As much as Khabib says he doesn't care about money, he could probably buy Dagestan with all the cash he'd make, and if it's in Russia...100K arena filled would not surprise me at all.

Well Ferguson has 11 win streak in that division, was interim champ...he deserves it win or lose.

Pettis dropped a few spots and was aiming high on ferguson fight. I think Poirier, Lee, etc... are much higher up the list. Not saying it's more entertaining, just saying logical choices based on rankings.

The problem is there was always a possibility CM could beat Floyd. I mean, miniscule but he had knocked out everyone so there was a chance. Khabib though...how can you sell that? You sell it as a trainwreck, nothing more...nothing less.

If Khabib is as tough as people claim he is and as full of pride...he will get concussion, no question. Floyd will not respect his stand up at all and crush him. Unlike FMJ vs CM there is zero reason to carry KN. I mean, carrying a striker is one thing. Carrying a wrestler would be an insult to FMJ's legacy.

IMHO the fight will never happen but I also thought that of Mcgregor and FMJ...who knows but I say not a chance.

 

[Kriss E]

Well Ferguson has 11 win streak in that division, was interim champ...he deserves it win or lose.

Pettis dropped a few spots and was aiming high on ferguson fight. I think Poirier, Lee, etc... are much higher up the list. Not saying it's more entertaining, just saying logical choices based on rankings.

The problem is there was always a possibility CM could beat Floyd. I mean, miniscule but he had knocked out everyone so there was a chance. Khabib though...how can you sell that? You sell it as a trainwreck, nothing more...nothing less.

If Khabib is as tough as people claim he is and as full of pride...he will get concussion, no question. Floyd will not respect his stand up at all and crush him. Unlike FMJ vs CM there is zero reason to carry KN. I mean, carrying a striker is one thing. Carrying a wrestler would be an insult to FMJ's legacy.

IMHO the fight will never happen but I also thought that of Mcgregor and FMJ...who knows but I say not a chance.

No doubt Ferguson deserves the shot.
For Pettis vs CM, I'm talking stylistically. Could be very interesting.
UFC is so weird. The President can pretty much decide who he wants to match up.

As for FMJ...did you actually think CM had a puncher's chance? I didn't. The people who did obviously aren't very knowledgeable. There is no way in hell CM was going to win for FMJ. There is no way Khabib would win either.

I don't think fighting Khabib would be an insult. It's a huge money grab, everyone would know it, just like the CM one. It would not change anything to FMJ's flawless record, and outside of that, he's already not all that respected so...wouldn't change a thing.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

No doubt Ferguson deserves the shot.
For Pettis vs CM, I'm talking stylistically. Could be very interesting.
UFC is so weird. The President can pretty much decide who he wants to match up.

As for FMJ...did you actually think CM had a puncher's chance? I didn't. The people who did obviously aren't very knowledgeable. There is no way in hell CM was going to win for FMJ. There is no way Khabib would win either.

I don't think fighting Khabib would be an insult. It's a huge money grab, everyone would know it, just like the CM one. It would not change anything to FMJ's flawless record, and outside of that, he's already not all that respected so...wouldn't change a thing.

Even if CM didn't have a chance, it was easier to sell the illusion that he did. FMJ being 40 and all.

I didn't say fighting Khabib is an insult. I said carrying Khabib would be, he's a grappler and has less business there than CM. FMJ would need to finish him quick.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Excited for this Volkan vs Smith fight. If Smith wins he'll vault up to a contender status.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Will this be the good Michael Johnson or the bad Michael Johnson tonight ? It's the latter more often than not.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Will this be the good Michael Johnson or the bad Michael Johnson tonight ? It's the latter more often than not.

I don't watch Lobov much but he looks pretty fearless in there.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I don't watch Lobov much but he looks pretty fearless in there.

He sure is coming in completely square with his chin up. Just zero respect for Johnson's power.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He sure is coming in completely square with his chin up. Just zero respect for Johnson's power.

Looked at his record, he's been KO'd only once. He has a chin.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Should be an easy decision for Johnson.