OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion IX

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DramaticGloveSave

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Okay..? Not sure how that's a lot lighter than what he's usually at, nor do I see how it changes anything regarding body comp.
GSP and Khabib do not have the same frame. All I know is GSP is very shredded at 170. I don't see how he drops another 15lbs without it affecting him.
The point is he can fight at LW without much problem.
 

pistolpete11

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Yeah, saw him say it and I'm a DC fan. I hope he has it all figured out.

My hope is he fights Lewis, Brock and fights winner of Jones/Gus last(I assume it will be Jones) and goes off into commentary whether he wins or loses.
I don't think DC would extend his March retirement frame for Gus. It was a close, epic fight, but DC beat him and I don't think Gus is a big enough draw for DC to do it for the money. I guess that could change if Gus beats Jon Jones, but I don't think so.

Assuming he beats Lewis, I bet he will do the Brock fight for the money and then maybe, maaaaybe Jones at HW for his legacy.

183 isn't earth shattering for a 155 lb fighter. Paul Felder is likely over 170 and does a long weight cut. Chiesa isn't a natural 155 and did it for years I guess.

I don't think it's healthy though, GSP would need to change his lifestyle to drop into 170s before attempting a weight cut to 155.

Either way Dana White has said what he wants. Told media if GSP wants Khabib he needs to fight and beat one top 5 guy at 155 and they'll talk after. Needs to give appearance he's earned it and prove he can make weight. I don't think GSP is interested unless it's Conor.
I would be disappointed if anybody but Tony gets the next shot at Khabib. I don't like guys jumping the line even if they are as great as GSP, but at least when he fought Bisping, there wasn't anybody as deserving as Tony is. Whittaker was hurt. Yoel had lost to Whittaker a few months before. Rockhold wasn't very active and only had a win against Branch since losing the belt to Bisping. Wideman was 1-3 in his last 4 fights. Gastelum was coming off a loss. Jacare was coming off a loss. So the stars kind of aligned to let GSP sneak in there.

It's probably going to be a while until there is an opening like that at 155lb, so I don't hate that Dana said that. I don't necessarily believe him either, but I hope he lives up to that. Khabib-Tony. Conor-Nate 3. Winners fight. If Conor somehow beats Khabib in the rematch, you have to do the trilogy. Who knows about the rest of the division. Maybe Poirier or Lee would be undeniable by that point. Point being, there are just too many exciting and deserving fights to be made in the LW division to let GSP cut in line, IMO....but WME only cares about money and outside of Conor, GSP would bring in the most money.
 

LyricalLyricist

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I don't think DC would extend his March retirement frame for Gus. It was a close, epic fight, but DC beat him and I don't think Gus is a big enough draw for DC to do it for the money. I guess that could change if Gus beats Jon Jones, but I don't think so.

Assuming he beats Lewis, I bet he will do the Brock fight for the money and then maybe, maaaaybe Jones at HW for his legacy.

Yeah, I don't see him caring about Gus. He did say he wants UFC to give him first shot at LHW belt if he has a free spot for it after Brock though.

DC said he wants Jones at LHW, nothing else.

I would be disappointed if anybody but Tony gets the next shot at Khabib. I don't like guys jumping the line even if they are as great as GSP, but at least when he fought Bisping, there wasn't anybody as deserving as Tony is. Whittaker was hurt. Yoel had lost to Whittaker a few months before. Rockhold wasn't very active and only had a win against Branch since losing the belt to Bisping. Wideman was 1-3 in his last 4 fights. Gastelum was coming off a loss. Jacare was coming off a loss. So the stars kind of aligned to let GSP sneak in there.

It's probably going to be a while until there is an opening like that at 155lb, so I don't hate that Dana said that. I don't necessarily believe him either, but I hope he lives up to that. Khabib-Tony. Conor-Nate 3. Winners fight. If Conor somehow beats Khabib in the rematch, you have to do the trilogy. Who knows about the rest of the division. Maybe Poirier or Lee would be undeniable by that point. Point being, there are just too many exciting and deserving fights to be made in the LW division to let GSP cut in line, IMO....but WME only cares about money and outside of Conor, GSP would bring in the most money.

Even if Nate wins vs Conor, he doesn't deserve title fight anyway. LW is a stacked division, as is WW so yeah I agree.

Thing is if Khabib is active and beats Tony, Lee/Poirier, by say July of next year then why can't GSP come in after 3 successful title defenses of 3 top 5 opponents? I think he can, Khabib would be say 29 or 30-0 which would make fight even bigger.

I do agree with DW though, make GSP at least appear to have earned it with one fight first.

Agreed, but even then, I don't see how he doesn't lose muscle by going down that low.

I agree 100%. Just meant he has time to carefully change his body composition(muscle mass and all that) in order to be primed for a weight cut.
 

pistolpete11

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Yeah, I don't see him caring about Gus. He did say he wants UFC to give him first shot at LHW belt if he has a free spot for it after Brock though.

DC said he wants Jones at LHW, nothing else.



Even if Nate wins vs Conor, he doesn't deserve title fight anyway. LW is a stacked division, as is WW so yeah I agree.

Thing is if Khabib is active and beats Tony, Lee/Poirier, by say July of next year then why can't GSP come in after 3 successful title defenses of 3 top 5 opponents? I think he can, Khabib would be say 29 or 30-0 which would make fight even bigger.

I do agree with DW though, make GSP at least appear to have earned it with one fight first.



I agree 100%. Just meant he has time to carefully change his body composition(muscle mass and all that) in order to be primed for a weight cut.
I could see DC going back down to LHW to fight Jones, but I think it's a more intriguing fight at HW. I know Jones may or may not have been on something in the first 2 fights, but we saw how that fight goes twice now at LHW. I get DC wanting to revenge those losses, but I'd still rather see it at HW.

If Nate were to beat Conor, it would be a minor version of GSP getting a title shot. Big name jumping the line. But at least he would have that big win in the division before getting the title shot.

I think WW is pretty weak right now, actually. Not that there aren't good fighters, but outside of Colby, there aren't any deserving title challengers. Woodley demolished Till. RDA, Wonderboy, and Lawler are all coming off losses. Usman has only beaten Maia in the top 15. Maia is coming off a string of losses. Magny hasn't beat anybody currently in the top 15. Masvidal has 2 losses in a row. Ponz has a nice string of wins, but has only beaten Nelson in the top 15.

RDA vs. Usman is happening, so maybe you can make a case for the winner of that getting the next title shot after Woodley blasts Covington into orbit. But I wouldn't object to GSP getting it. At least that is the division that GSP reigned over for like 7 years. I don't think GSP wants anything to do with Woodley, though.

IF Khabib beats Tony, I think the next fight (if he doesn't retire) would be a Conor rematch. Especially if Conor picks up a win in the meantime. But projecting that far into the future is usually futile. So much can happen with injuries, upsets, etc. There's a lot that needs to shake out before GSP should get an immediate title shot at LW is my point.
 

LyricalLyricist

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I could see DC going back down to LHW to fight Jones, but I think it's a more intriguing fight at HW. I know Jones may or may not have been on something in the first 2 fights, but we saw how that fight goes twice now at LHW. I get DC wanting to revenge those losses, but I'd still rather see it at HW.

If Nate were to beat Conor, it would be a minor version of GSP getting a title shot. Big name jumping the line. But at least he would have that big win in the division before getting the title shot.

I think WW is pretty weak right now, actually. Not that there aren't good fighters, but outside of Colby, there aren't any deserving title challengers. Woodley demolished Till. RDA, Wonderboy, and Lawler are all coming off losses. Usman has only beaten Maia in the top 15. Maia is coming off a string of losses. Magny hasn't beat anybody currently in the top 15. Masvidal has 2 losses in a row. Ponz has a nice string of wins, but has only beaten Nelson in the top 15.

RDA vs. Usman is happening, so maybe you can make a case for the winner of that getting the next title shot after Woodley blasts Covington into orbit. But I wouldn't object to GSP getting it. At least that is the division that GSP reigned over for like 7 years. I don't think GSP wants anything to do with Woodley, though.

IF Khabib beats Tony, I think the next fight (if he doesn't retire) would be a Conor rematch. Especially if Conor picks up a win in the meantime. But projecting that far into the future is usually futile. So much can happen with injuries, upsets, etc. There's a lot that needs to shake out before GSP should get an immediate title shot at LW is my point.

Well DC has said it's LHW, not HW. Apparently JJ told UFC he wants that too. Then apparently he'll get Cormier's HW belt but I think no time.

As for 170, Woodley cleared out a few guys but RDA and others are still top end even if Colby outworked him. Usman is interesting too.

GSP doesn't care about Woodley. Honestly, I barely do. No disrespect to Woodley but he has 3 defenses, 1 draw since winning. 2 of the 4 fights were vs same guy. GSP really doesn't care about him. He's said his stock isn't high enough. If GSP beats Khabib and wins a 3rd division people will call him GOAT. If he beats TW people will say "Best Welterweight of all time!". It doesn't have same impact. GSP may lose, may win, who knows. He literally just does not care. When Woodley has 5-6-7-8 defenses and if GSP is still in the game he'll call to fight him. Woodley isn't close to best WW of all time. Why would he be? It's way too early.

Yeah Conor will get a rematch eventually if Khabib stays but Tony should be next. Only fair. GSP fitting in will depend on how active Khabib is. Right now I'd say these are the important guys in that division:

Tony F
Khabib N
Conor M
Dustin P
Kevin L
Al I
Nate D

My opinion:

Tony vs Khabib
Kevin vs Al(it is happening but not super important)
Conor vs Diaz(can happen) Or Poirier vs Diaz(was scheduled already)

Which leaves either Conor or Dustin free. Let's assume Dustin vs Diaz is rescheduled.

Conor can fight some irrelevant fight anywhere. Also, Holloway, Silva, whatever.

If Khabib beats tony that addresses Tony.
If Kevin beats Al he may be close to title shot since Al faced Khabib. If Al wins there will be no rematch yet.
If Poirier beats Diaz he would be in contention for after Tony if McGregor doesn't jump line on him.
If Diaz wins, meh.

I could there being Tony, Poirier, Lee and McGregor as next 4 in line IF all win but maybe Lee doesn't. Maybe Conor's next experiment backfires, etc... Realistically 2-3 fights for Khabib by mid next year and GSP can challenge in one year's time. Hell, GSP might eliminate one of these 4 guys if he actually does come down and face one for a title shot.
 

pistolpete11

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Well DC has said it's LHW, not HW. Apparently JJ told UFC he wants that too. Then apparently he'll get Cormier's HW belt but I think no time.

As for 170, Woodley cleared out a few guys but RDA and others are still top end even if Colby outworked him. Usman is interesting too.

GSP doesn't care about Woodley. Honestly, I barely do. No disrespect to Woodley but he has 3 defenses, 1 draw since winning. 2 of the 4 fights were vs same guy. GSP really doesn't care about him. He's said his stock isn't high enough. If GSP beats Khabib and wins a 3rd division people will call him GOAT. If he beats TW people will say "Best Welterweight of all time!". It doesn't have same impact. GSP may lose, may win, who knows. He literally just does not care. When Woodley has 5-6-7-8 defenses and if GSP is still in the game he'll call to fight him. Woodley isn't close to best WW of all time. Why would he be? It's way too early.

Yeah Conor will get a rematch eventually if Khabib stays but Tony should be next. Only fair. GSP fitting in will depend on how active Khabib is. Right now I'd say these are the important guys in that division:

Tony F
Khabib N
Conor M
Dustin P
Kevin L
Al I
Nate D

My opinion:

Tony vs Khabib
Kevin vs Al(it is happening but not super important)
Conor vs Diaz(can happen) Or Poirier vs Diaz(was scheduled already)

Which leaves either Conor or Dustin free. Let's assume Dustin vs Diaz is rescheduled.

Conor can fight some irrelevant fight anywhere. Also, Holloway, Silva, whatever.

If Khabib beats tony that addresses Tony.
If Kevin beats Al he may be close to title shot since Al faced Khabib. If Al wins there will be no rematch yet.
If Poirier beats Diaz he would be in contention for after Tony if McGregor doesn't jump line on him.
If Diaz wins, meh.

I could there being Tony, Poirier, Lee and McGregor as next 4 in line IF all win but maybe Lee doesn't. Maybe Conor's next experiment backfires, etc... Realistically 2-3 fights for Khabib by mid next year and GSP can challenge in one year's time. Hell, GSP might eliminate one of these 4 guys if he actually does come down and face one for a title shot.
I know DC and Jones said they would want it to be at LHW, but I'd prefer it at HW. As I've said, we've seen what happens at LHW. Twice. So even if DC were to win, it would still be "Yeah, but you lost twice". HW kind of wipes the slate clean and doesn't "Heavyweight Champion of the world" have a better ring to it than "Light Heavyweight Champion of the world"?

I don't think it's about title defenses. How many title defenses does Khabib have? I think by far, the biggest reason he would pick Khabib (or whoever is the LW champ) over Woodley is because it would be the unprecedented 3 titles. But, I think GSP is less confident about beating Woodley, too. GSP is one of, if not the, most well rounded fighters in the UFC. But so is Woodley. I think GSP would look at Khabib's striking and see something to exploit. He'd see Conor's wrestling as something to exploit. Woodley doesn't have any glaring weaknesses like that. And if he lost to Khabib or Conor or any other LW, he could just say, "Oh well, I took a chance, but the weight cut was too much yadda yadda yadda." If he lost to Woodley, there's no excuses. It's his division.

Also, I think you're underrating Woodley. He's probably the third best WW behind GSP and Hughes and he still has the belt. He beat the best striker in the division. He beat the best grappler in the division. Anybody can be beat any time, but I'm not sure who can beat him in the current WW division.

Like I said, I don't like going too far into the future with the "If he beats X and Y, then he should fight Z" game. Too much can change. But I think the fights to make are Khabib-Tony for sure and I think Conor-Nate. I don't think Conor is taking fights just to stay busy. He's going to want a big fight which means Khabib or Nate. Most people (including me) are hoping he doesn't get Khabib right away, so I hope it's Nate. The other possibility though is Khabib's suspension. If he gets significantly more time than Conor, could they make Tony-Conor for the interim belt? That would be a fun fight. Conor would get his chance to secure the Khabib rematch. Tony seems to already have his shot, so maybe he doesn't want to take that fight, but he seems like the fight anyone, anywhere, and time type. And maybe his shot against Khabib isn't so secure. Plus, it would be his first real big payday. Win-win for the UFC, too. If Conor wins, the Khabib rematch is an easy sell. If Tony wins, Tony becomes a much bigger star and makes the Khabib fight that much bigger.
 

LyricalLyricist

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I know DC and Jones said they would want it to be at LHW, but I'd prefer it at HW. As I've said, we've seen what happens at LHW. Twice. So even if DC were to win, it would still be "Yeah, but you lost twice". HW kind of wipes the slate clean and doesn't "Heavyweight Champion of the world" have a better ring to it than "Light Heavyweight Champion of the world"?

Yeah, but DC wants to avenge his loss. It may be worse if he loses even at HW.

I don't think it's about title defenses. How many title defenses does Khabib have? I think by far, the biggest reason he would pick Khabib (or whoever is the LW champ) over Woodley is because it would be the unprecedented 3 titles. But, I think GSP is less confident about beating Woodley, too. GSP is one of, if not the, most well rounded fighters in the UFC. But so is Woodley. I think GSP would look at Khabib's striking and see something to exploit. He'd see Conor's wrestling as something to exploit. Woodley doesn't have any glaring weaknesses like that. And if he lost to Khabib or Conor or any other LW, he could just say, "Oh well, I took a chance, but the weight cut was too much yadda yadda yadda." If he lost to Woodley, there's no excuses. It's his division.

Khabib is undefeated though. And yeah, of course Woodley presents his own challenge and the 3 division champ is big for him but let's be real too. Woodley is not worth the trouble legacy wise. Khabib can beat GSP too but he loses a lot more fighting Woodley than khabib. He also gains a lot less.

Also, I think you're underrating Woodley. He's probably the third best WW behind GSP and Hughes and he still has the belt. He beat the best striker in the division. He beat the best grappler in the division. Anybody can be beat any time, but I'm not sure who can beat him in the current WW division.

Rory McDonald? I also don't know who can beat him right now. I don't think he's GOAT status, I just don't see anyone being a problem. Maybe Colby has a better gas tank and Usman also has some good takedown defense and all around ability but I'm unsure.

Like I said, I don't like going too far into the future with the "If he beats X and Y, then he should fight Z" game. Too much can change. But I think the fights to make are Khabib-Tony for sure and I think Conor-Nate. I don't think Conor is taking fights just to stay busy. He's going to want a big fight which means Khabib or Nate. Most people (including me) are hoping he doesn't get Khabib right away, so I hope it's Nate. The other possibility though is Khabib's suspension. If he gets significantly more time than Conor, could they make Tony-Conor for the interim belt? That would be a fun fight. Conor would get his chance to secure the Khabib rematch. Tony seems to already have his shot, so maybe he doesn't want to take that fight, but he seems like the fight anyone, anywhere, and time type. And maybe his shot against Khabib isn't so secure. Plus, it would be his first real big payday. Win-win for the UFC, too. If Conor wins, the Khabib rematch is an easy sell. If Tony wins, Tony becomes a much bigger star and makes the Khabib fight that much bigger.

Tony had an interim belt. I doubt he wants to go through that again.
 

Phil Parent

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We don't have a wrestling thread but I figured this was a good place as any...

Top WWE star Roman Reigns has leukemia and is stepping away from his career for the time being.
 

pistolpete11

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Yeah, but DC wants to avenge his loss. It may be worse if he loses even at HW.
I get it. But again, even if he wins, it will always be "He still lost twice". If he beats him at HW, people will be able to say "Jones was better at LHW, but DC was better at HW."

Khabib is undefeated though. And yeah, of course Woodley presents his own challenge and the 3 division champ is big for him but let's be real too. Woodley is not worth the trouble legacy wise. Khabib can beat GSP too but he loses a lot more fighting Woodley than khabib. He also gains a lot less.
Yeah, that was my original point. He doesn't want anything to do with Woodley. For a number of reasons.

Rory McDonald? I also don't know who can beat him right now. I don't think he's GOAT status, I just don't see anyone being a problem. Maybe Colby has a better gas tank and Usman also has some good takedown defense and all around ability but I'm unsure.
For sure. Rory can and has beat him. He very well could be the best WW in the world right now, but he's not in the UFC to prove it.

I don't see how Covington or Usman beat Woodley. Both are just wrestlers. Neither have shown much ability to finish fights either. Woodley is a very good wrestler himself, has great TDD, and has power in his hands. I just don't see either of those guys wrestling being that much better than Woodley's to take 3 of 5 rounds (if they can avoid getting knocked out, too).

Woodley's nowhere near GOAT status, but I think he's top 3 WW of all time. Since he still has the belt, he could still improve on that, but I don't know that he will be able to catch GSP. He's already 36. GSP is 37.

Tony had an interim belt. I doubt he wants to go through that again.
For Tony, it wouldn't be as much about getting an interim belt. It would be the Conor payday.

As much as everybody wants it to be Tony getting the next shot at Khabib, WME could step in and say "No, we want Khabib-Conor 2 next". And what if Khabib is suspended for a year or something? Then what? Tony would sit out for a year and a half waiting for a title shot?
 

Pompeius Magnus

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Conor McGregor provides round-by-round analysis of 'fair and square' loss to Khabib
His analysis is pretty spot on and honest, I'll give him that. This is being very gracious in defeat, which to be fair to the guy, he always is. Conor certainly has his warts but he never has any issues about admiting he's been beaten.
We don't have a wrestling thread but I figured this was a good place as any...

Top WWE star Roman Reigns has leukemia and is stepping away from his career for the time being.
Devastating news, he's way too young to have to deal with this a second time. I wish him and his family all the best.
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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Conor McGregor provides round-by-round analysis of 'fair and square' loss to Khabib
His analysis is pretty spot on and honest, I'll give him that. This is being very gracious in defeat, which to be fair to the guy, he always is. Conor certainly has his warts but he never has any issues about admiting he's been beaten.
Pretty fair assessment. Maybe giving himself a little too much credit for the early parts of round 1 and 2 if you ask me, but not outrageous.

He's pretty gracious in victory as well. He's said nice things about Aldo, Nate, Poirier, etc. He's the master of flipping it again and talking shit about them, but I think it's pretty easy to tell when he's being sincere and when he's just talking shit.
 

Deebs

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Pretty fair assessment. Maybe giving himself a little too much credit for the early parts of round 1 and 2 if you ask me, but not outrageous.

He's pretty gracious in victory as well. He's said nice things about Aldo, Nate, Poirier, etc. He's the master of flipping it again and talking **** about them, but I think it's pretty easy to tell when he's being sincere and when he's just talking ****.
It's just business
 

LyricalLyricist

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We don't have a wrestling thread but I figured this was a good place as any...

Top WWE star Roman Reigns has leukemia and is stepping away from his career for the time being.

Yeah not a big Roman Reigns fan as the character but that was tough. I wasn't crazy about him nearly shooting a promo to start on how he let fans down or something. Bro, you're good.

Hope to see him make full recovery.

Pretty fair assessment. Maybe giving himself a little too much credit for the early parts of round 1 and 2 if you ask me, but not outrageous.

He's pretty gracious in victory as well. He's said nice things about Aldo, Nate, Poirier, etc. He's the master of flipping it again and talking **** about them, but I think it's pretty easy to tell when he's being sincere and when he's just talking ****.

Humble in defeat. I don't understand how he didn't train stand up. I mean, he looked flat footed on the feet and has always done stand up sessions and even did a whole boxing camp. Sorry but all he did is ground game he's not close because a CM off the couch should be able to beat Khabib stand up. That's his bread and butter.
 

pistolpete11

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Humble in defeat. I don't understand how he didn't train stand up. I mean, he looked flat footed on the feet and has always done stand up sessions and even did a whole boxing camp. Sorry but all he did is ground game he's not close because a CM off the couch should be able to beat Khabib stand up. That's his bread and butter.
I guess he was so confident that his striking would be better than Khabib's anyway that he trained wrestling/grappling to try and keep the fight standing and/or survive on the ground. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I could see how they might think that.

I agree. He looked flat footed. He basically stood there and tried to walk Khabib down. It wasn't anything like the Machida-style karate stance he used against Eddie. I don't know if that was by design or if it was ring rust or what. Didn't work, obviously.
 

pistolpete11

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Apr 27, 2013
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Another thing I liked about his post was that he's OK with not getting an immediate rematch and he will fight whoever's next. I always knew Conor would come back to MMA, but I didn't know how long he'd stay. I'm still not sure how many more fights he has left, but it seems like at least a couple.
 

Pompeius Magnus

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Wait, they’d let DJ go???
There seems to be some heat between DJ and the UFC so I could see DJ being okay with the idea of a move . He's been very vocal in the past about feeling disrespected by Dana and the front office . On the UFC's end, they've felt for a long time that the guy just doesn't draw and now that's he's lost the belt they can move away from him without much consequences. It's a case of both parties wanting a change I guess.
 
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