OT: General UFC/MMA/Boxing discussion IX

[jackeymoon]

And as Serra proved, GSP can make a mistake. So physically speaking, I don't see how he can do this. He used to train where I worked, he's a big guy. There is no way he cuts down to 155 and is in good shape unless the UFC gives him like a year or two to prepare.

He's probably close to 155 than you think given his trial weight cut

 

[Kriss E]

He's probably close to 155 than you think given his trial weight cut

He's at 183 apparently, which is likely somewhere close to his natural weight.
Just look at him when he fights at 170, look at him in the ring and consider he probably is a bit over 170 there. He is a shredded 170lbs guy. Cutting an extra 15lbs would be insane.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

He never did a trial test cut...well at least that's what he says. He said its too unhealthy to do weight cuts for experimenting.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Ferguson
Lee
GSP
Woodley
Covington

Only guys who can realistically beat Khabibi

I don't think Lee and Ferguson can do it, GSP and Woodley can't fight under 170lbs. Unless Khabib gains a load of weight, and he can, I don't think those fights can happen.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't think he's quite as big as you're thinking he is. According to him, he actually hurt his body by putting on weight to move up to 185.

It goes both ways. Dropping down to 155 would hurt his body, probably more so than the move up to 185.
Again, he's a shredded 170lbs. He doesn't have much more fat to cut, so a lot of the cut will come in form of muscles and water, that's going to damage his body.

He says he's 183lb right now. Getting down to 155lb wouldn't be that unusual, especially if he has some time to plan it out. I think Khabib walks around at 180lb+. Back when he was missing weight, I heard that he was walking around at 200, but he still got close. Conor doesn't look out of place at 170 and he fought at 145. Holloway supposedly walks around at 180+ and he fights at 145. Rumble used to make 170. DC weighed 243 against Stipe, but was getting down to 205 for a good portion of his career. Till, Romero, etc. I'm not saying it would be easy for him. There's a reason he fought most of his career at 170, but it's possible. And we aren't talking about a permanent move. It would most certainly be a one-and-done type of situation.

Going from 183 to 155 is big for someone that already has such a low body fat percentage.
You are not factoring their body composition here. You're just looking at numbers. GSP could drop down to featherweight too if he wants, he's going to look anorexic, but hey, he can do it.
DC was 243...ya...with what..25-30% bodyfat?? We are not talking about the same thing at all man.
It's all about the body comp. Holloway walks at 180...ya..GSP could walk around at 250lbs if he wants. It doesn't mean anything without the body comp.

BJ Penn comes to mind. Fought as high as 185 and now fights at 145.

And BJ Penn only looked really good where he should fight, at 155. His attempts at 170 was a pretty big failure.

Exactly. There was even rumors he was doing a 'test cut' not that long ago to see if he could do it. If true, and he still says he can do it, then I think it's pretty likely he can do it.

Of course he can cut down. That's not really the point though. The idea is to cut+fight the champion+win, which he hasn't done at all, and I don't think he would.
I think the cut will be too difficult and impactful given his frame, losing significant strength and process in the process.
I'd put my money on Khabib, without question. I think it's a stupid decision from GSP, even more so if Khabib is the opponent. We are not talking Bisping here who, let's be honest, was never Champion material.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

And as Serra proved, GSP can make a mistake. So physically speaking, I don't see how he can do this. He used to train where I worked, he's a big guy. There is no way he cuts down to 155 and is in good shape unless the UFC gives him like a year or two to prepare.

Not too many since.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

I'm not sure GSP would want to play with his diet and weight considering his health problems.

 

[pistolpete11]

It goes both ways. Dropping down to 155 would hurt his body, probably more so than the move up to 185.
Again, he's a shredded 170lbs. He doesn't have much more fat to cut, so a lot of the cut will come in form of muscles and water, that's going to damage his body.


Going from 183 to 155 is big for someone that already has such a low body fat percentage.
You are not factoring their body composition here. You're just looking at numbers. GSP could drop down to featherweight too if he wants, he's going to look anorexic, but hey, he can do it.
DC was 243...ya...with what..25-30% bodyfat?? We are not talking about the same thing at all man.
It's all about the body comp. Holloway walks at 180...ya..GSP could walk around at 250lbs if he wants. It doesn't mean anything without the body comp.


And BJ Penn only looked really good where he should fight, at 155. His attempts at 170 was a pretty big failure.

Of course he can cut down. That's not really the point though. The idea is to cut+fight the champion+win, which he hasn't done at all, and I don't think he would.
I think the cut will be too difficult and impactful given his frame, losing significant strength and process in the process.
I'd put my money on Khabib, without question. I think it's a stupid decision from GSP, even more so if Khabib is the opponent. We are not talking Bisping here who, let's be honest, was never Champion material.

You just typed an entire post telling me why he can't do it and then said the bolded.

I'm not saying he's ideally a 155lber. I even said there's a reason he fought most of his career at 170. I'm saying he could do it and I think he would for a chance to be the first ever to be a 3-division champ. GSP thinks he can do it, too, so....

If the fight is made, I'd put my money on GSP. GSP is not the fight anyone, anywhere, any time, any weight class type of risk taker. If he accepts the fight, it means he thinks he will win. In this case, that would include cutting weight without diminishing himself too much. And IMO, GSP is too well rounded for Khabib (or anyone, really). Even if he's not quite as good of a wrestler as Khabib, he's going to have better TDD and ground game than anyone Khabib has ever faced in the UFC and he's a better striker than Khabib.

 

[LeHab]

Canelo Alvarez, DAZN Agree to 'A Minimum' $365M Contract for 5 Years, 11 Fights

Canelo Alvarez, DAZN Agree to 'A Minimum' $365M Contract for 5 Years, 11 Fights

Biggest contract for an athlete ever.

 

[jackeymoon]

I don't think Lee and Ferguson can do it, GSP and Woodley can't fight under 170lbs. Unless Khabib gains a load of weight, and he can, I don't think those fights can happen.

If Khabib wants to really be known as the "GOAT" he has to go up to 170 and take on Woodley.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Canelo Alvarez, DAZN Agree to 'A Minimum' $365M Contract for 5 Years, 11 Fights

Biggest contract for an athlete ever.

Streaming companies are really throwing around big bucks to get some exclusive sports content. I'm still a bit skeptical about it to be quite honest. A lot of people are still watching regular TV.

 

[Kriss E]

You just typed an entire post telling me why he can't do it and then said the bolded.

I'm not saying he's ideally a 155lber. I even said there's a reason he fought most of his career at 170. I'm saying he could do it and I think he would for a chance to be the first ever to be a 3-division champ. GSP thinks he can do it, too, so....

If the fight is made, I'd put my money on GSP. GSP is not the fight anyone, anywhere, any time, any weight class type of risk taker. If he accepts the fight, it means he thinks he will win. In this case, that would include cutting weight without diminishing himself too much. And IMO, GSP is too well rounded for Khabib (or anyone, really). Even if he's not quite as good of a wrestler as Khabib, he's going to have better TDD and ground game than anyone Khabib has ever faced in the UFC and he's a better striker than Khabib.

Yes, I thought it was clear by “he can do it” I meant, physically speaking. I never argued he couldn't actually drop down to 155, I said it would be stupid and he would lose some of his strength and power in the process.
Again, you just ignore the fact he's already a shredded 170lbs guy.
I dont see how cutting an extra freaking 15lbs makes the slightest bit of sense.
I would be very very surprised if this ever happened, and I don't know why anybody would give the odds to GsP.
Gsp stand up isn't particularly great either and Khabib had no problem standing with CM, he even dropped him.
As much as you want to say khabib never faced anyone as strong on the ground as GSP, the same is true of GSP.

I dont care what GSP says, he isn't going to defy physiology. Unless he juices up, there is no way for him to make a healthy cut without impacting his performance level. That or the UFC gives him 1 year+ to prepare.

 

[LeHab]

Streaming companies are really throwing around big bucks to get some exclusive sports content. I'm still a bit skeptical about it to be quite honest. A lot of people are still watching regular TV.

Canelo was on PPV only anyway. Now he will be on a monthly subscription. Will DAZN license the content to bars and other establishments that still get regular cable or not? Or maybe this deal is for online exclusivity only?

 

[pistolpete11]

Yes, I thought it was clear by “he can do it” I meant, physically speaking. I never argued he couldn't actually drop down to 155, I said it would be stupid and he would lose some of his strength and power in the process.
Again, you just ignore the fact he's already a shredded 170lbs guy.
I dont see how cutting an extra freaking 15lbs makes the slightest bit of sense.
I would be very very surprised if this ever happened, and I don't know why anybody would give the odds to GsP.
Gsp stand up isn't particularly great either and Khabib had no problem standing with CM, he even dropped him.
As much as you want to say khabib never faced anyone as strong on the ground as GSP, the same is true of GSP.

I dont care what GSP says, he isn't going to defy physiology. Unless he juices up, there is no way for him to make a healthy cut without impacting his performance level. That or the UFC gives him 1 year+ to prepare.

I'm not ignoring anything. We both agree he can do it. I think he would do it for the chance to be the first 3-division champ. You don't. Move on.

GSP's striking is better than Khabib's. I don't think anybody would argue that.

Khabib didn't stand with Conor. He caught him with one right hand because Conor was too focused on the takedown, but rounds 1, 2, and 4 were almost entirely on the ground. The 3rd round which was the only round mostly on the feet, he got out struck by Conor.

GSP might not have faced anyone quite as good as Khabib on the ground, but he's fought a ton of legit grapplers. Some legends even. Matt Hughes (x3), Frank Trigg, BJ Penn (x2), Jon Fitch, Jake Shields. Even guys like Johnny Hendricks, Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz who are thought of as more striker than grappler are pretty good on the ground. Who has Khabib fought like that? RDA and...

I just think GSP is a better all around fighter and would find a way to win.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Canelo was on PPV only anyway. Now he will be on a monthly subscription. Will DAZN license the content to bars and other establishments that still get regular cable or not? Or maybe this deal is for online exclusivity only?

I have no idea .

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not ignoring anything. We both agree he can do it. I think he would do it for the chance to be the first 3-division champ. You don't. Move on.

GSP's striking is better than Khabib's. I don't think anybody would argue that.

Khabib didn't stand with Conor. He caught him with one right hand because Conor was too focused on the takedown, but rounds 1, 2, and 4 were almost entirely on the ground. The 3rd round which was the only round mostly on the feet, he got out struck by Conor.

GSP might not have faced anyone quite as good as Khabib on the ground, but he's fought a ton of legit grapplers. Some legends even. Matt Hughes (x3), Frank Trigg, BJ Penn (x2), Jon Fitch, Jake Shields. Even guys like Johnny Hendricks, Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz who are thought of as more striker than grappler are pretty good on the ground. Who has Khabib fought like that? RDA and...

I just think GSP is a better all around fighter and would find a way to win.

The fact you have never even brought up GSP shredded look at 170 makes me say you're ignoring it.
Where will this extra 15lbs disappear from you think?

 

[MD thaivuN]

It's possible for GSP to make 155 lbs. But definitely not in an optimal manner to win a fight against top level lightweights. He'd have to nearly die to make it or significantly change his body type to a skinny build.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The fact you have never even brought up GSP shredded look at 170 makes me say you're ignoring it.
Where will this extra 15lbs disappear from you think?

GSPs walk around weight is way down.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

GSPs walk around weight is way down.

He said himself that he walks around 183.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

He said himself that he walks around 183.

I believe he walked around at 200+ when he fought at WW

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

I believe he walked around at 200+ when he fought at WW

I know he struggled to be over 190lbs when he fought Bisping, also he can't put on fat so i doubt he was over 200lbs at any point in his career.

 

[habergeon]

From the previous thread:

@DangerDave, there have been a ton of rumors about GSP fighting again. Sure, they could be media driven, but I totally believe he wants to fight again...IF, and only IF, he can find the perfect matchup that would further his 'legacy' and be a fight he has a very good chance at winning. Much like the Bisping fight. If Conor won, I think we absolutely would have seen Conor-GSP. Beating Conor (if he had beat Khabib) is arguably the biggest win he could get in today's UFC and he'd be the first to hold a belt in 3 different weight classes. I also think GSP would be extremely confident in beating Conor because of his wrestling and his striking is better than Khabib. So it checks all the boxes for GSP. Legacy, likely win, and huge payday.

(I know Dana said he wouldn't let GSP fight for the 155lb belt because he would likely vacate, but that fight would have been too huge to not make).

I agree 100%.

The problem right now is Khabib wipes the floor with Conor wrestling wise, and showed last fight he can box with McGregor just enough to get it to the ground without getting hurt. That's a nightmare scenario for Conor.

Best case for Conor, and White seems to agree, is Khabib fights Ferguson next (which would be awesome).

Ferguson / McGregor would be a much better fight card than Khabib in my opinion, and the winner gets GSP for his final legacy fight / payday.

You could sell a lot of PPV buys with that path.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I know he struggled to be over 190lbs when he fought Bisping, also he can't put on fat so i doubt he was over 200lbs at any point in his career.

As a comparable Tyron Woodley walks around at 205.

 

[c3z4r]

If Khabib wants to really be known as the "GOAT" he has to go up to 170 and take on Woodley.

That'd be the biggest mistake of his career. Woodley would completely maul him, especially at 170.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

As a comparable Tyron Woodley walks around at 205.

He does looks like it.

In one of his q&a Firas said 15lbs is about the weight cut he'd ask from his athletes, he doesn't believe in extreme dehydration. GSP might have the lowest fat% in the game.