Prospect Info: General Prospect Discussion Thread 2020-21 - Part 2

[Bazeek]

If I was to do a comparison in regards to hype/expectations/whatever, I'd have it:

Rossi ~ Granlund
Boldy > Coyle
Beckman ~ Zucker
Addison < Dumba
Lambos ~ Brodin (maybe an ever-so-slight edge to Brodin depending on if you bought into offensive upside and by how much)
Wallstedt > any of the goalies

I give Brodin the edge just based on pro leagues vs the CHL. The production doesn't compare well but the experience usually makes up for it.

It's also why I think Khusnutdinov is a real x-factor in the current pool vs the 2012 pool. His role seems to have diminished somewhat after SKA added Gusev, but at 19 he's looked right at home in the KHL. I don't think we had a good comparable in the 2012 group.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I give Brodin the edge just based on pro leagues vs the CHL. The production doesn't compare well but the experience usually makes up for it.

It's also why I think Khusnutdinov is a real x-factor in the current pool vs the 2012 pool. His role seems to have diminished somewhat after SKA added Gusev, but at 19 he's looked right at home in the KHL. I don't think we had a good comparable in the 2012 group.

Larsson probably. 36 in 49 in the top Swedish league. WJC captain.

 

[Bazeek]

Larsson probably. 36 in 49 in the top Swedish league. WJC captain.

Ack, I screwed up. I was thinking he never actually played in the top Swedish league, but he did.

Different players, but point very much taken.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If I was to do a comparison in regards to hype/expectations/whatever, I'd have it:

Rossi ~ Granlund
Boldy > Coyle
Beckman ~ Zucker
Addison < Dumba
Lambos ~ Brodin (maybe an ever-so-slight edge to Brodin depending on if you bought into offensive upside and by how much)
Wallstedt > any of the goalies

I want to see Rossi be rated the best prospect in the world before putting him before Granlund. More so, Granlund played in the professional league and dominated the WJC and WC.

I'd say Boldy > Zucker and Beckman < Coyle though.

Coyle doesn't have an equivalent as Minnesota doesn't have a power forward they've drafted.

Lambos < Brodin

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I want to see Rossi be rated the best prospect in the world before putting him before Granlund. More so, Granlund played in the professional league and dominated the WJC and WC.

I'd say Boldy > Zucker and Beckman < Coyle though.

Coyle doesn't have an equivalent as Minnesota doesn't have a power forward they've drafted.

Lambos < Brodin

I didn't put Rossi before Granlund. I'm just saying that my hopes for him are pretty similar to my hopes for Granlund at around the same time: top-ish line center, Krejci-ish player.

I'm not really sure why you'd re-arrange the Boldy/Coyle/Zucker/Beckman ones, I guess to flip one in favor of 2010-12.

Boldy is every bit the "power forward" that Coyle was playing in NCAA/AHL.

Brodin was a complete mystery to me when he was drafted, but I did think that the people throwing around Lidstrom's name were just being lazy. I never bought into that. Lambos is also a bit of a mystery due to some of the things that caused him to fall (reportedly). But I think I'd be "satisfied" if he ended up on the same place that was "satisfied with Brodin ending up, a good #2.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Boldy is every bit the "power forward" that Coyle was playing in NCAA/AHL.

No he isn't. Boldy was drafted as a two-way forward. Coyle was drafted as a budding power forward that could hit. Do you forget his game in Columbus?

Brodin was a complete mystery to me when he was drafted, but I did think that the people throwing around Lidstrom's name were just being lazy. I never bought into that. Lambos is also a bit of a mystery due to some of the things that caused him to fall (reportedly). But I think I'd be "satisfied" if he ended up on the same place that was "satisfied with Brodin ending up, a good #2.

Brodin wasn't a mystery to a lot of scouts. I saw him as a poor man's Lidstrom myself. Great skating, great positioning but no offense. Lambos was a mystery due to an illness. But Lambos had a rough transition to the pros last season. I also think his floor is about the same as Brodin, but Brodin's ceiling was much higher.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No he isn't. Boldy was drafted as a two-way forward. Coyle was drafted as a budding power forward that could hit. Do you forget his game in Columbus?



Brodin wasn't a mystery to a lot of scouts. I saw him as a poor man's Lidstrom myself. Great skating, great positioning but no offense. Lambos was a mystery due to an illness. But Lambos had a rough transition to the pros last season. I also think his floor is about the same as Brodin, but Brodin's ceiling was much higher.

Coyle wasn't a power forward until he was 20 years old playing in the CHL. Just by its nature, a guy that is 6'3" 220 lbs is going have some shifts were he bounces off of people; it doesn't make him a Brendan Shanahan or Jerome Iginla.

Brodin/Lidstrom was a lazy comparison from the start because they were both Swedish, left-handed and ~6'1". And "no offense" isn't a "poor man's Lidstrom", it's a "no man's Lidstrom".

 

[thestonedkoala]

Coyle wasn't a power forward until he was 20 years old playing in the CHL. Just by its nature, a guy that is 6'3" 220 lbs is going have some shifts were he bounces off of people; it doesn't make him a Brendan Shanahan or Jerome Iginla.

Brodin/Lidstrom was a lazy comparison from the start because they were both Swedish, left-handed and ~6'1". And "no offense" isn't a "poor man's Lidstrom", it's a "no man's Lidstrom".

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I do agree though that there is lazy takes when it comes to comparing players from the same country.

 

[AKL]

Boldy is every bit the power forward Coyle is/was. I'm not seeing any good arguments otherwise. Both of them use size/strength to play a more skilled game, neither of them go out of their way to be punishing physical forces.

 

[Circulartheory]

Boldy is every bit the power forward Coyle is/was. I'm not seeing any good arguments otherwise. Both of them use size/strength to play a more skilled game, neither of them go out of their way to be punishing physical forces.

I've always found that Boldy brought a more skill based approach than Coyle. Coyle was never punishing but he did use his size to gain seperation. Sure Boldy has the size and reach to do it but he has some really slick puck skills to generate offense. Put Coyle in front of the net and Boldy making plays along the boards and sneaking into the circle and that would be great. Thats why I think Boldy would fit nicely with JEE.

 

[AKL]

I've always found that Boldy brought a more skill based approach than Coyle. Coyle was never punishing but he did use his size to gain seperation. Sure Boldy has the size and reach to do it but he has some really slick puck skills to generate offense. Put Coyle in front of the net and Boldy making plays along the boards and sneaking into the circle and that would be great. Thats why I think Boldy would fit nicely with JEE.

Well yeah, Boldy uses more skill because he has more skill.

 

[keppel146]

Boldy is every bit the power forward Coyle is/was. I'm not seeing any good arguments otherwise. Both of them use size/strength to play a more skilled game, neither of them go out of their way to be punishing physical forces.

Boldy is not a power forward. That’s not his game.

 

[AKL]

Boldy is not a power forward. That’s not his game.

What is Boldy's game?

 

[Prior]

Lambos is the best defensive prospect this team has ever had save Dumba. He’s going to get a look to make this team next year.

The top end guys of this pool stack pretty similar to the old corps that was sufficiently hyped up. Where the current group I think gets the nod is the peripheral group is sizeable and with a lot of projectable aspects to the NHL level where there is a greater chance of getting more contributions if they can get some “right” development.

And of course there is no answer to what Wallstedt currently holds.

 

[keppel146]

What is Boldy's game?

I consider him a two way forward bc he isn’t physical enough for my definition of a power forward. We all know he’s got great offensive and defensive skills, he’s so well rounded, but I don’t see him throwing his body around and being a big physical guy. Like I don’t see him playing anything like Foligno for example. But maybe I’m old school with my definition.

 

[AKL]

I consider him a two way forward bc he isn’t physical enough for my definition of a power forward. We all know he’s got great offensive and defensive skills, he’s so well rounded, but I don’t see him throwing his body around and being a big physical guy. Like I don’t see him playing anything like Foligno for example. But maybe I’m old school with my definition.

Yeah, Coyle didn't do any of that either

 

[keppel146]

Yeah, Coyle didn't do any of that either

Which is why Coyle didn’t make for a good PF? But my original comment wasn’t about Coyle, it was about Boldy not being a PF imo.

 

[AKL]

Which is why Coyle didn’t make for a good PF? But my original comment wasn’t about Coyle, it was about Boldy not being a PF imo.

The discussion was about Boldy vs. Coyle.

 

[Circulartheory]

Well yeah, Boldy uses more skill because he has more skill.

I agree and with more skill comes a more skill based game, which I always found that Coyle did not have the luxury of doing. In any case, this is an argument of nuances, and I don't still mind categorizing Boldy as a powerforward as I know the definition differs from person to person and I can see arguments for it. I just see a nuance difference between the two players

 

[AKL]

I agree and with more skill comes a more skill based game, which I always found that Coyle did not have the luxury of doing. In any case, this is an argument of nuances, and I don't still mind categorizing Boldy as a powerforward as I know the definition differs from person to person and I can see arguments for it. I just see a nuance difference between the two players

No two players play the game the same way, so I recognize the differences between Boldy and Coyle. I just take exception to the idea that you can consider Coyle a power forward but Boldy isn't. Nino was more of the proto-typical power forward. Coyle was just big, and used his strength and size to protect the puck, win battles, etc, just like Boldy does. Nino was the guy who would finish his checks and make his physical presence known. Neither Coyle nor Boldy do that. So if Coyle is a power forward, so is Boldy. If Coyle wasn't, neither is Boldy. That was my entire point.

 

[chchelseII]

Power forward/not Power forward just scored.

 

[Wasted Talent]

 

[Circulartheory]

No two players play the game the same way, so I recognize the differences between Boldy and Coyle. I just take exception to the idea that you can consider Coyle a power forward but Boldy isn't. Nino was more of the proto-typical power forward. Coyle was just big, and used his strength and size to protect the puck, win battles, etc, just like Boldy does. Nino was the guy who would finish his checks and make his physical presence known. Neither Coyle nor Boldy do that. So if Coyle is a power forward, so is Boldy. If Coyle wasn't, neither is Boldy. That was my entire point.

It really just a deeper conversation of our definition of power forwards which will be a whole different thread

 

[thestonedkoala]

It really just a deeper conversation of our definition of power forwards which will be a whole different thread

The biggest issue is that some of the physical aspects of being a power forward has changed as the game has gotten faster and fighting has been significantly decreased (along with certain types of hits).

Neely is a good example of a power forward; or Gordie Howe. Hell, as much as we hate him Bertuzzi was a good definition of a power forward.

The top end guys of this pool stack pretty similar to the old corps that was sufficiently hyped up. Where the current group I think gets the nod is the peripheral group is sizeable and with a lot of projectable aspects to the NHL level where there is a greater chance of getting more contributions if they can get some “right” development.

I'll have to pull my THN, but I believe Minnesota had a pretty sizable peripheral group back then as well. But they fizzled fairly quickly. I do agree that Minnesota is getting better returns past the 2nd round, which is awesome to see.

 

[57special]

You'd love to see Boldy's game be somewhere in style between Mark Stone and Rantanen as a bigger forward. He's not as tough as Stone, nor as good defensively, but he is a better skater at a similar age, and might have just as good of a shot.

Both very high end comparisons...I'd be thrilled if he ends up being anything close to those two players.

Boldy might not be a fast skater, but he is a good skater.