OT: General OT MEGATHREAD (No Politics) Pt. 2 - Read OP before posting

[g00n]

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Regarding your last paragraph some people are indeed saying those things, and they should be roundly shouted down.

Weed is legal or decriminalized in a lot of states and people are still being killed. I'm guessing armed drug raids for weed busts are probably way down nationally, and most of the armed narcotics enforcement is centered on the harder drugs. If those are still illegal then cops will still be armed due to the armed cartels.

Those are who saying those things are in the very small minority. The overwhelming majority of reform advocates are taking a common sense approach to legalizing a drug that should have never been made illegal in the first place, and roundly do shout down the unsafe and unrealistic ideas advocated by a few groups and individuals that are more interested in removing all government regulation than they are interested in reform that makes sense.

I'm not quite sure what your second paragraph is referring to. Who is being killed, and by what/whom?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

View attachment 348925

Don't agree with this approach. College is unaffordable for a large (and growing) portion of the country and police salaries aren't high enough to repay student debt. I also don't think you need to go to a university to take those courses; why would you need to pay $30k a year to take De-escalation 101?

That said, agree that there needs to be wholesale reforms both prior to joining the force and then while they continue to wear the badge. There should be much higher entrance examination requirements; I could have passed the police academy exam in my hometown in middle school. There should also be much more stringent mental and emotional health examinations prior to joining and annually throughout their careers, and more resources should be afforded to cops who need mental and emotional support. Social media profiles should also be scrubbed regularly. It should be easier for cops to submit whistleblower reports and those reports should be investigated by an outside agency that has no emotional, financial, or other connection to the force or its officers. There are a lot of potential avenues to help improve the situation.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Further reducing the pool of potential applicants by requiring a degree many can’t afford to get is short sighted.

Perfect world, yeah everyone would have a degree.

I’m all for enhanced psyche evals and screening, more training, etc....

 

[twabby]

Further reducing the pool of potential applicants by requiring a degree many can’t afford to get is short sighted.

Perfect world, yeah everyone would have a degree.

I’m all for enhanced psyche evals and screening, more training, etc....

Good news is you can also cut the size of police forces by like 75% and be just fine!

Also this is where you insert the “college should be free” argument.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I'm curious what you mean by exercise your 2A right? Do you mean buy a gun just to have one for say, self defense? Or carry it around like some of the militia types have been doing lately in some areas? I assume you don't actually mean use your "arms" to keep the state free, which is the reason you have a 2A right at all

Just personal protection.

 

[g00n]

Those are who saying those things are in the very small minority. The overwhelming majority of reform advocates are taking a common sense approach to legalizing a drug that should have never been made illegal in the first place, and roundly do shout down the unsafe and unrealistic ideas advocated by a few groups and individuals that are more interested in removing all government regulation than they are interested in reform that makes sense.

I'm not quite sure what your second paragraph is referring to. Who is being killed, and by what/whom?

I'm not sure why we're still discussing weed legalization as that's pretty much a given. I'm talking about how violent crime has not disappeared even where legal. So if we're talking about only making "common sense" moves to legalize weed and maybe a few others that may be regulated, we're still looking at the need for an armed security force of some kind to handle the armed/violent conflicts that still occur.

Report: Colorado’s violent crime rate continues to climb

Legalizing weed aka "stop the drug war" doesn't mean cops can walk around with night stick and pepper spray only.

 

[g00n]

Don't agree with this approach. College is unaffordable for a large (and growing) portion of the country and police salaries aren't high enough to repay student debt. I also don't think you need to go to a university to take those courses; why would you need to pay $30k a year to take De-escalation 101?

That said, agree that there needs to be wholesale reforms both prior to joining the force and then while they continue to wear the badge. There should be much higher entrance examination requirements; I could have passed the police academy exam in my hometown in middle school. There should also be much more stringent mental and emotional health examinations prior to joining and annually throughout their careers, and more resources should be afforded to cops who need mental and emotional support. Social media profiles should also be scrubbed regularly. It should be easier for cops to submit whistleblower reports and those reports should be investigated by an outside agency that has no emotional, financial, or other connection to the force or its officers. There are a lot of potential avenues to help improve the situation.

Why can we subsidize and train soldiers but not cops?

 

[hb12xchamps]

Good news is you can also cut the size of police forces by like 75% and be just fine!

Also this is where you insert the “college should be free” argument.

You're saying you could cut the police force by 75% everywhere? That would be tough to argue. Maybe in a major city, but I can't see many of the local police forces near me (Central PA) being able to reduced their force and not completely overwork their officers. Harrisburg is the only major city and their force already has problems with major turnover due to lower salary than the surrounding suburban and rural areas.

 

[kicksavedave]

Why can we subsidize and train soldiers but not cops?

One is federal and one is local. Different budgets with different debt loads.

I think increased training and selection processes will be a result of this protest movement, but as with any societal change, it will be slow and inconsistent from one local to another.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You're saying you could cut the police force by 75% everywhere? That would be tough to argue. Maybe in a major city, but I can't see many of the local police forces near me (Central PA) being able to reduced their force and not completely overwork their officers. Harrisburg is the only major city and their force already has problems with major turnover due to lower salary than the surrounding suburban and rural areas.

“tough to argue” you’re being kind.....it’s absurd.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I'm not sure why we're still discussing weed legalization as that's pretty much a given. I'm talking about how violent crime has not disappeared even where legal. So if we're talking about only making "common sense" moves to legalize weed and maybe a few others that may be regulated, we're still looking at the need for an armed security force of some kind to handle the armed/violent conflicts that still occur.

Report: Colorado’s violent crime rate continues to climb

Legalizing weed aka "stop the drug war" doesn't mean cops can walk around with night stick and pepper spray only.

I have no idea why you're arguing with me about about an armed security force as I never said a word about it, nor did I say legalizing weed would prevent the need for police. I'm confused . I'm talking about decriminalizing marijuana and removing legal penalties... not about the police force? The only thing I said about the police force is that narcotics and DEA units whose sole role is to roam the streets and pinch people for minor drug (mostly marijuana) charges should be defunded and those resources allocated elsewhere.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm not sure why we're still discussing weed legalization as that's pretty much a given. I'm talking about how violent crime has not disappeared even where legal. So if we're talking about only making "common sense" moves to legalize weed and maybe a few others that may be regulated, we're still looking at the need for an armed security force of some kind to handle the armed/violent conflicts that still occur.

Report: Colorado’s violent crime rate continues to climb

Legalizing weed aka "stop the drug war" doesn't mean cops can walk around with night stick and pepper spray only.

I think the truth is they’re two different things and you’re trying to make them into one, but you’re right in the bigger point.....Cops can’t just be disarmed.

If you wanna disarm Cops, you need to disarm citizens too for it to not be a big societal issue IMO. Good luck going down that road in the USA.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Why can we subsidize and train soldiers but not cops?

The only soldiers we require a degree for are officers, not enlisted. And where did I say we shouldn't train cops?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I have no idea why you're arguing with me about about an armed security force as I never said a word about it, nor did I say legalizing weed would prevent the need for police. I'm confused . I'm talking about decriminalizing marijuana and removing legal penalties... not about the police force? The only thing I said about the police force is that narcotics and DEA units whose sole role is to roam the streets and pinch people for minor drug (mostly marijuana) charges should be defunded and those resources allocated elsewhere.

“When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor”...

“Forget it, he’s rolling”.....

 

[g00n]

I have no idea why you're arguing with me about about an armed security force as I never said a word about it, nor did I say legalizing weed would prevent the need for police. I'm confused . I'm talking about decriminalizing marijuana and removing legal penalties... not about the police force? The only thing I said about the police force is that narcotics and DEA units whose sole role is to roam the streets and pinch people for minor drug (mostly marijuana) charges should be defunded and those resources allocated elsewhere.

I was mostly replying to Twabby about his statement regarding stopping the drug war to defund the police. I think you jumped in but I'm not going back to look right now.

 

[g00n]

One is federal and one is local. Different budgets with different debt loads.

I think increased training and selection processes will be a result of this protest movement, but as with any societal change, it will be slow and inconsistent from one local to another.

It was a rhetorical question. There is no reason we can't apply some of the same practices and levels of funding. I'm sure there are ways to get around any laws preventing funding local PD through federal programs that standardize training measurements.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This is going to get interesting.


Buffalo PD Emergency Response Team Resigns After Cop Suspensions — TMZ

 

[twabby]

This is going to get interesting.


Buffalo PD Emergency Response Team Resigns After Cop Suspensions — TMZ

Another example of cops being the biggest babies on Earth.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

My organization has a pretty substantial police department to police parks. Tactical gear, all the guns you can get and even a mobile command vehicle. It’s nuts. It can be cut by 75% no problem and still easily fulfill its mission but the union wouldn’t let that happen.

 

[kicksavedave]

This is going to get interesting.


Buffalo PD Emergency Response Team Resigns After Cop Suspensions — TMZ

Not so fast. They didn't quit their jobs, they just resigned from some sort of extra unit they were in. They're still employed by the PD.

A total of about 57 officers walked off the job Friday, though they are still employed with the police department -- just no longer on the ERT ... according to WIVB reporter Dave Greber.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not so fast. They didn't quit their jobs, they just resigned from some sort of extra unit they were in. They're still employed by the PD.

I know....

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I was mostly replying to Twabby about his statement regarding stopping the drug war to defund the police. I think you jumped in but I'm not going back to look right now.

Yeah I jumped in on the War on Drugs but didn't make any comments about defunding police in general. I just said that narcotics and DEA units that only focus on petty street crimes should be discontinued.

As an aside, I highly recommend that people check out The 13th on Netflix. It is tough to watch but important to see.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

My organization has a pretty substantial police department to police parks. Tactical gear, all the guns you can get and even a mobile command vehicle. It’s nuts. It can be cut by 75% no problem and still easily fulfill its mission but the union wouldn’t let that happen.

I have no issue cutting back on park police lol...if big picture, that’s somehow meaningful in all of this.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]