TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Blender]

I blame all of 7s issues on not doing 10 episodes. Everything felt rushed as a result.

It is paced differently than previous seasons and a lot of people didn't like that, but most of it still made logical sense despite all the absurd teleporting complaints. The one that stretched plausibility was the Beyond the Wall stuff.

 

[Pilky01]

I feel I'm in the minority since everyone online seems to care so much about it, but I could not give a single care about the Scorpion's trajectory or accuracy against dragons mid-flight. I just don't. Just like the "bad strategy" in the battle of Winterfell. I'm not a war tactician. This isn't history. The Scorpion is a made-up ballista style weapon designed to kill dragons. I just... don't care.

It feels really dumb how susceptible these mythical creatures are to big arrows.

Also the worst part of that scene was that Dany is flying, in the sky, but an entire armada of war ships managed to sneak up on her.

But still, the bad "tactics" aren't even what is making the show suck. Theyre just a small part of everything else that has gone off the rails.

 

[Vex]

It feels really dumb how susceptible these mythical creatures are to big arrows.

Also the worst part of that scene was that Dany is flying, in the sky, but an entire armada of war ships managed to sneak up on her.

But still, the bad "tactics" aren't even what is making the show suck. Theyre just a small part of everything else that has gone off the rails.

Thick arrows penetrate dragons' natural armor. Video games have taught me this.

 

[tacogeoff]

Limdsey Ellis has hit her breaking point.



And she is trashing "subverting expectations"

Why wouldn't she.

It would easily get her in the 2mill plus views per video again. she has been sliding in views a bit this year.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I feel I'm in the minority since everyone online seems to care so much about it, but I could not give a single care about the Scorpion's trajectory or accuracy against dragons mid-flight. I just don't. Just like the "bad strategy" in the battle of Winterfell. I'm not a war tactician. This isn't history. The Scorpion is a made-up ballista style weapon designed to kill dragons. I just... don't care.

I believe we could go back and rip the tactics of the Battle of Blackwater to shreds if we so desired.

I am with you. I don’t care. I accept that fantasy battles are going to do these things for dramatic effects. If I worried so much about scouting then every single ambush, from Robb’s victory, to Blackwater, and on would piss me off.

Same as how I didn’t care they the battle of Stirling bridge in Braveheart didn’t actually feature a bridge. Or really any battle in Lord of the Rings. “For Frodo” isn’t good strategy and I could care less.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It is paced differently than previous seasons and a lot of people didn't like that, but most of it still made logical sense despite all the absurd teleporting complaints. The one that stretched plausibility was the Beyond the Wall stuff.

Oh it did make sense. I don’t have a problem with the content. It just happened rapid fire and you as the viewer were forced to fill in the blanks more then previous seasons did.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Thick arrows penetrate dragons' natural armor. Video games have taught me this.

Yeah I can’t get mad that the wounded dragon wasn’t able to survive three big bolts, including one through the next.

CGI was good there. It looked gruesome as all hell.

 

[Pilky01]

Why wouldn't she.

It would easily get her in the 2mill plus views per video again. she has been sliding in views a bit this year.

I haven't followed her for too long so I don't know how her videos track.



I think that hits the mark for a lot of shows/movies (but to be honest I am thinking very specifically of Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi) that decided to sacrifice logical storytelling for the sake of "subverting expectations".

Yeah I can’t get mad that the wounded dragon wasn’t able to survive three big bolts, including one through the next.

CGI was good there. It looked gruesome as all hell.

It definitely did. I let out an "oh f***!" when that arrow piercing the neck.

 

[Vex]

I believe we could go back and rip the tactics of the Battle of Blackwater to shreds if we so desired.

I am with you. I don’t care. I accept that fantasy battles are going to do these things for dramatic effects. If I worried so much about scouting then every single ambush, from Robb’s victory, to Blackwater, and on would piss me off.

Same as how I didn’t care they the battle of Stirling bridge in Braveheart didn’t actually feature a bridge. Or really any battle in Lord of the Rings. “For Frodo” isn’t good strategy and I could care less.

The strategy in Lord of the Rings was "rely on the OP fighter, barbarian, and ranger." And no one cared. It was a much simpler time.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I feel I'm in the minority since everyone online seems to care so much about it, but I could not give a single care about the Scorpion's trajectory or accuracy against dragons mid-flight. I just don't. Just like the "bad strategy" in the battle of Winterfell. I'm not a war tactician. This isn't history. The Scorpion is a made-up ballista style weapon designed to kill dragons. I just... don't care.

There has to be a breaking point when it comes to reality in this world. Not only do they set up the ballistas as a heat-seaking missle capable of hitting a target THREE TIMES with no problem in the first moment, but then they completely walk it back by making it miss every shot in the next moment.

And on top of that is reinforces the idea that Euron is simply in this story as the guy you send out to knock the gigantic good guy army down a few pegs when the plot needs it. He is able to burn the Dornish and Iron-born fleet with ease, is able to burn the fleet that took the Unsullied to Casterly Rock with ease, and then he is able to kill a dragon (3 for 3) and burn Daenerys's fleet on her way to Dragonstone with ease. There is no nuance or clever writing that leads to those points happening and they are incredibly hard to accept in context of the rest of the series before he arrived.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I feel I'm in the minority since everyone online seems to care so much about it, but I could not give a single care about the Scorpion's trajectory or accuracy against dragons mid-flight. I just don't. Just like the "bad strategy" in the battle of Winterfell. I'm not a war tactician. This isn't history. The Scorpion is a made-up ballista style weapon designed to kill dragons. I just... don't care.

I'm kind of with you here. I understand why some people care, but it just doesn't bother me. I can suspend my disbelief as a result of it being a TV show not real life.

 

[izzy]

 

[Vex]

Not only do they set up the ballistas as a heat-seaking missle capable of hitting a target THREE TIMES with no problem in the first moment, but then they completely walk it back by making it miss every shot in the next moment.

So it's like every other weapon in every other show or movie that's ever been made.

 

[The Macho King]

I haven't followed her for too long so I don't know how her videos track.



I think that hits the mark for a lot of shows/movies (but to be honest I am thinking very specifically of Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi) that decided to sacrifice logical storytelling for the sake of "subverting expectations".



It definitely did. I let out an "oh ****!" when that arrow piercing the neck.

I mean, I still don't know how GoT has subverted expectations here. All of the set pieces have played out pretty safely.

I mean, at the end of the day, I feel comfortable in saying that the last two episodes is going to feature a high body count of important characters. There is only one person I would put money on definitely surviving that's a main character, and that is Sansa. Everyone else is being set up to die in some way. And that's going to piss people off, but really this has been telegraphed for awhile.

And that's fine.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

There has to be a breaking point when it comes to reality in this world. Not only do they set up the ballistas as a heat-seaking missle capable of hitting a target THREE TIMES with no problem in the first moment, but then they completely walk it back by making it miss every shot in the next moment.

I feel like this is fairly easily explained, the dragons didn't see anybody/any arrow when the first one was shot down. It was flying in a predictable pattern. Dany saw all of the other arrows and waited until they shot, then veered out of the way.

I have more of an issue with why she didn't try to fly by and roast them from behind while they were reloading.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think the moaning about Jon not petting Ghost is the biggest example of criticism becoming whining.

The scene absolutely worked well the way it was. Jon not going north despite wanting to. His self-loathing by hoping Gilly has s girl so it isn’t named after him, and his leaving his Stark identity behind with Ghost.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I feel like this is fairly easily explained, the dragons didn't see anybody/any arrow when the first one was shot down. It was flying in a predictable pattern. Dany saw all of the other arrows and waited until they shot, then veered out of the way.

I have more of an issue with why she didn't try to fly by and roast them from behind while they were reloading.

I know little about sailing, but I read that with his ships at full sail, Euron could turn rather quickly to keep firing.

The drawback to the scorpions seem to be they can’t aim straight up. That might come into play next week as the trailer shows him looking up at something and being scared by it.

 

[Shareefruck]

I believe we could go back and rip the tactics of the Battle of Blackwater to shreds if we so desired.

I am with you. I don’t care. I accept that fantasy battles are going to do these things for dramatic effects. If I worried so much about scouting then every single ambush, from Robb’s victory, to Blackwater, and on would piss me off.

Same as how I didn’t care they the battle of Stirling bridge in Braveheart didn’t actually feature a bridge. Or really any battle in Lord of the Rings. “For Frodo” isn’t good strategy and I could care less.

For me personally, all complaints about bad strategy, teleporting, plot armor, and ***-pulls really have nothing to do with the technical implausibility of an event, but rather have everything to do with things "feeling" stupid, distasteful, lazy, inelegant/inartful, poorly pace, and resulting from poor sensibilities/creative decisions. I agree that if all you're doing is picking out what technically doesn't make sense and forgiving it if it turns out some poorly communicated loop-hole allows it to make sense, you're doing it wrong. The illusion is what matters, not the reality. However, when the illusion is awful (which I feel that it has been in most of these episodes), it should be called out.

A thing that technically doesn't make any sense at all can feel right/perfect and a thing that makes perfect sense can feel stupid/wrong.

 

[Blender]

There has to be a breaking point when it comes to reality in this world. Not only do they set up the ballistas as a heat-seaking missle capable of hitting a target THREE TIMES with no problem in the first moment, but then they completely walk it back by making it miss every shot in the next moment.

And on top of that is reinforces the idea that Euron is simply in this story as the guy you send out to knock the gigantic good guy army down a few pegs when the plot needs it. He is able to burn the Dornish and Iron-born fleet with ease, is able to burn the fleet that took the Unsullied to Casterly Rock with ease, and then he is able to kill a dragon (3 for 3) and burn Daenerys's fleet on her way to Dragonstone with ease. There is no nuance or clever writing that leads to those points happening and they are incredibly hard to accept in context of the rest of the series before he arrived.

I agree that the initial shots were implausible, but the misses afterwards made perfect sense. Daenerys flew straight at them and moved Drogon to avoid the shots.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So it's like every other weapon in every other show or movie that's ever been made.

1. No and this is not even true
2. I thought we were talking about Game of Thrones in particular? You aren't really making any reasonable case for this fitting into the context of the series itself.

 

[The Macho King]

For me personally, all complaints about bad strategy, teleporting, plot armor, and ***-pulls really have nothing to do with the technical implausibility of an event, but rather have everything to do with things "feeling" stupid, distasteful, lazy, inelegant/inartful, and having poor sensibilities, IMO. The illusion is what matters, not the reality, but when the illusion is awful, it should be called out.

A thing that technically doesn't make any sense at all can feel right/perfect and a thing that makes perfect sense can feel stupid/wrong.

Yeah I'm not looking for the Battle of Cannae here. Episode 3 had some really crappy shots (everyone seemed moments from death for like... 75 straight minutes), and a lot of things were set up for visual effects that kind of... didn't make a ton of sense. Ultimately the episode worked because of personal moments and Arya's scene in the library (seriously might have saved the whole episode), but the "battle" portion kinda was meh.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I mean, I still don't know how GoT has subverted expectations here. All of the set pieces have played out pretty safely.

I mean, at the end of the day, I feel comfortable in saying that the last two episodes is going to feature a high body count of important characters. There is only one person I would put money on definitely surviving that's a main character, and that is Sansa. Everyone else is being set up to die in some way. And that's going to piss people off, but really this has been telegraphed for awhile.

And that's fine.

The only subversion I can think of is Arya killing the NK and not Jon, but I think people are way overboard in being so mad about that.

I don’t think much else is being subverted. Unless people really thought we were getting a happy ending with Dany as a good queen, or Jon and Dany getting happily married?

 

[Vex]

1. No and this is not even true
2. I thought we were talking about Game of Thrones in particular? You aren't really making any reasonable case for this fitting into the context of the series itself.

My point is a weapon won't kill a character unless it's written that it will. This is why villains miss all the time. Stormtroopers being the most obvious example.

I don't understand how this has suddenly become such an issue. Yeah, it's silly. But it's nothing new. That was my point. It's like every other weapon.

 

[tacogeoff]

It feels really dumb how susceptible these mythical creatures are to big arrows.

Also the worst part of that scene was that Dany is flying, in the sky, but an entire armada of war ships managed to sneak up on her.

But still, the bad "tactics" aren't even what is making the show suck. Theyre just a small part of everything else that has gone off the rails.

I personally think the Dragons have to be susceptible to something though besides other dragons. Or else they would be far to overpowered and there would be no doubt in the viewers mind that they can be killed. A large arrow makes the most sense as an equalizer.

When I viewed the episode I interpreted the fleet was coming around from behind Dragonstone which is a tall island. but still doesn't excuse Dany not noticing them while flying around.

I don't think this season has gone of the rails in comparison to previous seasons. I do feel that a lot of things have happened character wise that some viewers and book readers do not like. I also believe it is being rushed to an end which is very unfortunate.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I agree that the initial shots were implausible, but the misses afterwards made perfect sense. Daenerys flew straight at them and moved Drogon to avoid the shots.

Sure, but I am not sure it matters so much. They wanted the dragon death to be sudden and horrible. The logic might not be totally sound, but it has the desired effect. Everyone I was watching with were shocked and horrified, so at least for them it worked.