TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[The Macho King]

Sure, but I am not sure it matters so much. They wanted the dragon death to be sudden and horrible. The logic might not be totally sound, but it has the desired effect. Everyone I was watching with were shocked and horrified, so at least for them it worked.

Honestly, have the dragon die in the previous episode. Same impact on the story, makes sense logically, and that's one less scene you have to have Euron in.

 

[Vex]

Honestly, have the dragon die in the previous episode. Same impact on the story, makes sense logically, and that's one less scene you have to have Euron in.

I do agree with this. Rhaegal could have died in battle after the dragon duel and subsequent crash. But I think they wanted to show how powerful and effective the Scorpion is.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

My point is a weapon won't kill a character unless it's written that it will. This is why villains miss all the time. Stormtroopers being the most obvious example.

I don't understand how this has suddenly become such an issue. Yeah, it's silly. But it's nothing new.

I'm not saying that it is silly for the bolts to kill the dragons. I am saying the execution of the scene was poorly done and took me out of it because of the method the writers took to make it happen.

Silliness is not something inherent to Game of Thrones. Even when something is implausible the writing and direction typically did a good job of grounding it in some kind of realism.

 

[tacogeoff]

I do agree with this. Rhaegal could have died in battle after the dragon duel and subsequent crash. But I think they wanted to show how powerful and effective the Scorpion is.

They also wanted to demonstrate that Kings Landing will not be an easy place to take. It creates the anticipation that it is going to be a very hard fought battle with only one dragon and Cersei having the weapons to possibly take out the last dragon as well.

 

[Vex]

I'm not saying that it is silly for the bolts to kill the dragons. I am saying the execution of the scene was poorly done and took me out of it because of the method the writers took to make it happen.

Silliness is not something inherent to Game of Thrones. Even when something is implausible the writing and direction typically did a good job of grounding it in some kind of realism.

Maybe a dragon is faster than heavy ballistae bolts. (I've already said I don't particularly care about this stuff.)

The execution could have definitely been better, sure. I was just pointing out how the villain shooting something and then missing happens all the time.

Euron is a cartoon character. Cartoony things happen when he's on-screen.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Honestly, have the dragon die in the previous episode. Same impact on the story, makes sense logically, and that's one less scene you have to have Euron in.

I think they needed it to happen via Cersei to further Dany’s desire to ignore advice and sack the city.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I don’t really believe the characters themselves have gone off the rails. Maybe they have in line with people’s expectations, but Dany going down a dark road was absolutely foreshadowed.

 

[Blender]

I think they needed it to happen via Cersei to further Dany’s desire to ignore advice and sack the city.

Yea Rhaegal and Missandei dying has her determined to sack the city regardless of the plan that was determined.

 

[David Dennison]

Maybe a dragon is faster than heavy ballistae bolts. (I've already said I don't particularly care about this stuff.)

The execution could have definitely been better, sure. I was just pointing out how the villain shooting something and then missing happens all the time.

Euron is a cartoon character. Cartoony things happen when he's on-screen.

You can say you don't care, you can say you should suspend disbelief, but that doesn't mean it's good story telling.

The strength of the early seasons was never based on big battle scenes or over the top CGI. Now it just feels like scenes that don't have that stuff are just setting up these scenes.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Maybe a dragon is faster than heavy ballistae bolts. (I've already said I don't particularly care about this stuff.)

The execution could have definitely been better, sure. I was just pointing out how the villain shooting something and then missing happens all the time.

Euron is a cartoon character. Cartoony things happen when he's on-screen.

Cartoon characters generally don't fit in the world that has been built over this series, making him stand out in a bad way even more.

Also I didn't say anything about how missing the dragon by itself is an issue, and I'm not sure where you got that from.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I mean, I still don't know how GoT has subverted expectations here. All of the set pieces have played out pretty safely.

I mean, at the end of the day, I feel comfortable in saying that the last two episodes is going to feature a high body count of important characters. There is only one person I would put money on definitely surviving that's a main character, and that is Sansa. Everyone else is being set up to die in some way. And that's going to piss people off, but really this has been telegraphed for awhile.

And that's fine.

I pretty much agree with this. If people have been holding out for eight years for a happy ending they really haven't been paying much attention. A character like Sansa survived and will survive because she learned how to not only play but win the game. It's come at a high cost to herself but is what will enable her to dodge the magic bullets that will be hitting so many of the other characters. Characters like Ned, Robb, Dany, Jon, Stannis, etc. have failed in this regard and have paid the price. In Jon's case his "character" (honor and integrity) will carry a high price (exile or death). In Dany's case her obsession with getting "what's hers" and fulfilling that destiny at all costs will likely either get her killed or perhaps worse the recognition of being just another monarch that is no different than some of the worst that came before her.

 

[Vex]

Cartoon characters generally don't fit in the world that has been built over this series, making him stand out in a bad way even more.

Also I didn't say anything about how missing the dragon by itself is an issue, and I'm not sure where you got that from.

Conflating a lot of nonsense I've read and assuming your position. So that's my bad.

Yeah, Euron sucks. I can't wait for him to get burned to a crisp so we can never talk about him again.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I have read one take that Jamie’s arc was never about redemption, but the tale of a tragic addict.

Cersei is legitimately a drug to him.

Conflating a lot of nonsense I've read and assuming your position. So that's my bad.

Yeah, Euron sucks. I can't wait for him to get burned to a crisp so we can never talk about him again.

I think we can all agree Euron sucks. I have not enjoyed his introduction into either version of the story.

I pretty much agree with this. If people have been holding out for eight years for a happy ending they really haven't been paying much attention. A character like Sansa survived and will survive because she learned how to not only play but win the game. It's come at a high cost to herself but is what will enable her to dodge the magic bullets that will be hitting so many of the other characters. Characters like Ned, Robb, Dany, Jon, Stannis, etc. have failed in this regard and have paid the price. In Jon's case his "character" (honor and integrity) will carry a high price (exile or death). In Dany's case her obsession with getting "what's hers" and fulfilling that destiny at all costs will likely either get her killed or perhaps worse the recognition of being just another monarch that is no different than some of the worst that came before her.

A lot of Dany fans, especially the ones that named their babies Dany and Khaleesi are not going to enjoy this.

What you get for getting so invested in characters in a story that isn’t finished.

 

[Blender]

I have read a lot of complaints about Tormund not dying and instead just leaving to go north, but not only am I glad he didn't die, I think it was vital to the wildling story that he survive. Tormund is the only developed wildling that is left, so he's the representative of their people and culture to the viewer. Through him surviving and telling Jon that he is heading north to start again, we're getting closure to their entire arc. The only reason any of their people survived, and with that their history and culture, is because of Jon. Jon literally saved a culture with 10,000 years of history from extinction, despite the personal cost involved. Tormund and the other free folk being shown utterly devoted to Jon, and Tormund and Jon saying goodbye have been some of the best payoffs we have gotten this season, and I don't see it discussed much. Jon is their "prince who was promised", and it's no surprise that they are the biggest Jon supporters around.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I have read a lot of complaints about Tormund not dying and instead just leaving to go north, but not only am I glad he didn't die, I think it was vital to the wildling story that he survive. Tormund is the only developed wildling that is left, so he's the representative of their people and culture to the viewer. Through him surviving and telling Jon that he is heading north to start again, we're getting closure to their entire arc. The only reason any of their people survived, and with that their history and culture, is because of Jon. Jon literally saved a culture with 10,000 years of history from extinction, despite the personal cost involved. Tormund and the other free folk being shown utterly devoted to Jon, and Tormund and Jon saying goodbye have been some of the best payoffs we have gotten this season, and I don't see it discussed much. Jon is their "prince who was promised", and it's no surprise that they are the biggest Jon supporters around.

I also think Jon may end up taking up his offer in the end. He mentioned they are going to wait until the snow clears before going north. So it makes sense for Tormund to survive in that case.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

A lot of Dany fans, especially the ones that named their babies Dany and Khaleesi are not going to enjoy this.

What you get for getting so invested in characters in a story that isn’t finished.

Especially since even if she does attain the throne (which I seriously doubt at this point) it will be accomplished as a tyrant. Also, who will be left to support her? Barristan Selmy-gone. Jorah Mormont-gone. Missandei-gone. Grey Worm-likely casualty. Varys-he's being telegraphed to betray her-gone. Tyrion? When push comes to shove he'll support his family which will inevitably put him in the traitor category-gone. Jon? Regardless of what he says his identity will always be an existential threat to her authority to rule-gone (I'm not sure if he will be killed or gets exiled). Even two of her three dragons are gone. I guess Daario can come back into the picture-LOL.

 

[Blender]

I also think Jon may end up taking up his offer in the end. He mentioned they are going to wait until the snow clears before going north. So it makes sense for Tormund to survive in that case.

I agree that if Jon survives, the logical conclusion for his arc is to go north, to the real north.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Especially since even if she does attain the throne (which I seriously doubt at this point) it will be accomplished as a tyrant. Also, who will be left to support her? Barristan Selmy-gone. Jorah Mormont-gone. Missandei-gone. Grey Worm-likely casualty. Varys-he's being telegraphed to betray her-gone. Tyrion? When push comes to shove he'll support his family which will inevitably put him in the traitor category-gone. Jon? Regardless of what he says his identity will always be an existential threat to her authority to rule-gone (I'm not sure if he will be killed or gets exiled). Even two of her three dragons are gone. I guess Daario can come back into the picture-LOL.

The lord’s of Westros will never love her. She is a forgein invader to them. Plus she can’t have children. What happens when she dies?

I can’t see both Jon and Dany surviving. One is going to die, most likely at the hands of the other. Now that the secret is out, Dany is going to be threatened by Jon no matter what he says.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I agree that if Jon survives, the logical conclusion for his arc is to go north, to the real north.

It’s either that or become an absolutely miserable king. If we want a happy Jon ending, he needs to go north.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I also think Jon may end up taking up his offer in the end. He mentioned they are going to wait until the snow clears before going north. So it makes sense for Tormund to survive in that case.

Yeah, I think there was a healthy amount of foreshadowing in ep 4. where Jon is concerned. A lot of heavy handed "Jon doesn't belong in King's Landing" and "Jon belongs in the North." Even Jon sending Ghost north. If Jon doesn't die in the series finale my bet is he ends up going back north to live among the Wildings.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah, I think there was a healthy amount of foreshadowing in ep 4. where Jon is concerned. A lot of heavy handed "Jon doesn't belong in King's Landing" and "Jon belongs in the North." Even Jon sending Ghost north. If Jon doesn't die in the series finale my bet is he ends up going back north to live among the Wildings.

Yeah that whole scene was highly symbolic of Jon leaving behind his true self and that nothing but tragedy awaits him in the south.

So it’s now a question of whether he survives long enough to correct this mistake.

I know people find Jon boring, but I have actually enjoyed his arc and Kit’s acting this season has gotten a lot better.

 

[Blender]

It’s either that or become an absolutely miserable king. If we want a happy Jon ending, he needs to go north.

I think he could be a good king, but he'd hate it. He's been disillusioned since Ygritte died, and his only motivation has been to protect people. That's one of the reasons I didn't care that he didn't kill the Night King, he literally gave up that fight after he died and only got involved again when he discovered his family was alive.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think he could be a good king, but he'd hate it. He's been disillusioned since Ygritte died, and his only motivation has been to protect people. That's one of the reasons I didn't care that he didn't kill the Night King, he literally gave up that fight after he died and only got involved again when he discovered his family was alive.

He has some PTSD too in my mind. He thinks his existence is a curse. Him not wanting Gilly to have a boy named after him stuck with me.

He fulfilled his major purpose, but all his work to bring people together are already falling apart.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The lord’s of Westros will never love her. She is a forgein invader to them. Plus she can’t have children. What happens when she dies?

I can’t see both Jon and Dany surviving. One is going to die, most likely at the hands of the other. Now that the secret is out, Dany is going to be threatened by Jon no matter what he says.

That was always going to be Dany's biggest challenge. Not the conquest of Westeros but the "soft power" struggle for the minds and hearts of those in power and the average person. As has been said time and time again the average person doesn't care who is in charge as long as they can live decent lives. Roose Bolton's maxim was "a quiet rule, a quiet people." The lords on the hand are different. As you say to them Dany is a foreign invader who is looking to topple an infrastructure that they are a part of and benefit from. There is little incentive for them to bend the knee. How will Dany respond to that? We've already seen it when she torched the Tarleys and will see it again when she nukes King's Landing.

 

[Vex]

Does anyone think we're getting the flaming sword? Or has that theory/prophecy been put to rest?