TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[TP]

Continue the madness!

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[Emperoreddy]

Arya snuck up on Jon in the same spot in episode 1. He even questioned how she snuck up on him.

 

[Beau Knows]

I see a lot of people didn't enjoy the episode. I share some of the critisms, but I was still on the edge of my seat for all of it.

It was certainly a spectacle. I feel like the incredible production of that whole thing isn't really getting enough praise. I think people are taking that aspect of it for granted, you might not see something like that again soon.

I am concerned though about how they can wrap everything up in a satisfying way in just 3 episodes.

 

[WTG]

Infantry in front of your protective trench, Calvary just blindly chasing head-on into an army, siege equipment in front of the infantry, barely any protection for the walls. You can tell they spent all their budget on CGI and not their writing staff. Ever since they went off the book this show has been style over substance. The reason I liked the show and the books is because it's mostly about substance over style.

Even then, spend all your budget on CGI yet in the end there were no fights with any of the white walkers in this episode. Arya is butchered into a Deus ex Machina. Great writing btw. Just have her teleport behind the Night King like a anime. First she struggles to get past 5 wights in the library. Then she teleports through a group of White Walkers to make a giant ass 100 meter leap of faith to kill the Night King.

After 8 seasons of Game of Thrones and all the hype of the big bad being the White Walkers, they in the end only kill 4 of them (Sam kills one, Jon kills two, Arya kills one). The Night King in the entire series hasn't unsheathed his blade once. What kills me too is that Arya had nothing to do with the Northern plot anyway. Her story is with Cersei not with the White Walkers, her entire story is about revenge. What's the point of having Jon? Was he just another Marty Stu in the end? But at least Dan and Dan turned Arya into another Jon/Daenerys/Self-insert character, a character who's awesome and can't make a wrong move and is never in any risk what-so-ever!

If they were going this direction at least have the balls to kill of Jon. But hey, at least my expectations were subverted by a Deus ex Machina! This show is now being made for drunk idiots in bars who will cheer at anything.

 

[Peasy]

I see a lot of people didn't enjoy the episode. I share some of the critisms, but I was still on the edge of my seat for all of it.

It was certainly a spectacle. I feel like the incredible production of that whole thing isn't really getting enough praise. I think people are taking that aspect of it for granted, you might not see something like that again soon.

I am concerned though about how they can wrap everything up in a satisfying way in just 3 episodes.

Seriously, it took them 55 days to film. Also it was all filmed during the night, so the entire cast was on the graveyard shift that entire time, as well as in the middle of winter.

I personally loved every second of it. But there is no way it could have been produced to make everyone happy.

 

[Blender]

Arya snuck up on Jon in the same spot in episode 1. He even questioned how she snuck up on him.

Bran also gave her the dagger in season 7, which she used the same trick against Brienne with while sparring.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Bran also gave her the dagger in season 7, which she used the same trick against Brienne with while sparring.

Syrio’s training in season 1 had her learning to be quick and sneaky from chasing cats.

She told Tywin in season 2 that anyone can be killed. Anyone.

 

[Blender]

Infantry in front of your protective trench, Calvary just blindly chasing head-on into an army, siege equipment in front of the infantry, barely any protection for the walls. You can tell they spent all their budget on CGI and not their writing staff. Ever since they went off the book this show has been style over substance. The reason I liked the show and the books is because it's mostly about substance over style.

Even then, spend all your budget on CGI yet in the end there were no fights with any of the white walkers in this episode. Arya is butchered into a Deus ex Machina. Great writing btw. Just have her teleport behind the Night King like a anime. First she struggles to get past 5 wights in the library. Then she teleports through a group of White Walkers to make a giant ass 100 meter leap of faith to kill the Night King.

After 8 seasons of Game of Thrones and all the hype of the big bad being the White Walkers, they in the end only kill 4 of them (Sam kills one, Jon kills two, Arya kills one). The Night King in the entire series hasn't unsheathed his blade once. What kills me too is that Arya had nothing to do with the Northern plot anyway. Her story is with Cersei not with the White Walkers, her entire story is about revenge. What's the point of having Jon? Was he just another Marty Stu in the end? But at least Dan and Dan turned Arya into another Jon/Daenerys/Self-insert character, a character who's awesome and can't make a wrong move and is never in any risk what-so-ever!

If they were going this direction at least have the balls to kill of Jon. But hey, at least my expectations were subverted by a Deus ex Machina! This show is now being made for drunk idiots in bars who will cheer at anything.

There was no Deus Ex Machina in this episode. I thought this blatant misunderstanding was beaten to death last night...

 

[The Macho King]

Infantry in front of your protective trench, Calvary just blindly chasing head-on into an army, siege equipment in front of the infantry, barely any protection for the walls. You can tell they spent all their budget on CGI and not their writing staff. Ever since they went off the book this show has been style over substance. The reason I liked the show and the books is because it's mostly about substance over style.

Even then, spend all your budget on CGI yet in the end there were no fights with any of the white walkers in this episode. Arya is butchered into a Deus ex Machina. Great writing btw. Just have her teleport behind the Night King like a anime. First she struggles to get past 5 wights in the library. Then she teleports through a group of White Walkers to make a giant ass 100 meter leap of faith to kill the Night King.

After 8 seasons of Game of Thrones and all the hype of the big bad being the White Walkers, they in the end only kill 4 of them (Sam kills one, Jon kills two, Arya kills one). The Night King in the entire series hasn't unsheathed his blade once. What kills me too is that Arya had nothing to do with the Northern plot anyway. Her story is with Cersei not with the White Walkers, her entire story is about revenge. What's the point of having Jon? Was he just another Marty Stu in the end? But at least Dan and Dan turned Arya into another Jon/Daenerys/Self-insert character, a character who's awesome and can't make a wrong move and is never in any risk what-so-ever!

If they were going this direction at least have the balls to kill of Jon. But hey, at least my expectations were subverted by a Deus ex Machina! This show is now being made for drunk idiots in bars who will cheer at anything.

You keep using Deus Ex Machina. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[WTG]

There was no Deus Ex Machina in this episode. I thought this blatant misunderstanding was beaten to death last night...

Which character gave Arya the fast ball special? The Hound?

 

[Emperoreddy]

There was no Deus Ex Machina in this episode. I thought this blatant misunderstanding was beaten to death last night...

If the lord of light himself suddenly showed up with no warning and melted the NK, THAT would have been a Deus Ex Machina.

Also they established Arya can be so quiet that the only sound that could be heard was the dripping of her blood.

 

[TP]

Saw this and laughed

 

[Emperoreddy]

We also see Jon try and fail to sneak back into the castle, just to stamp it home further how he was not equipped for this task.

 

[The Macho King]

If the lord of light himself suddenly showed up with no warning and melted the NK, THAT would have been a Deus Ex Machina.

Also they established Arya can be so quiet that the only sound that could be heard was the dripping of her blood.

Seriously - they've been setting her up as a sneaky assassin the entire series. It is the opposite of a Deus Ex Machina. If any trope, it's like a really prolonged Chekhov's Gun.

 

[The Macho King]

We also see Jon try and fail to sneak back into the castle, just to stamp it home further how he was not equipped for this task.

He's Robert E. Lee level of competent. He'll get statues for his losing effort.

 

[Blender]

Syrio’s training in season 1 had her learning to be quick and sneaky from chasing cats.

She told Tywin in season 2 that anyone can be killed. Anyone.

Her entire arc training to become a Faceless Man, who worship the god of death and are notorious for being able to kill anyone.

Melisandre telling her they would meet again one day, and that she would shut many eyes forever; brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes.

 

[Emperoreddy]

He's Robert E. Lee level of competent. He'll get statues for his losing effort.

It is legit a running gag at this point with how ineffective Jon is. He might have accomplished the least in that entire battle.

 

[Emperoreddy]

George Martin himself said don’t trust prophecies!!!

 

[The Macho King]

It is legit a running gag at this point with how ineffective Jon is. He might have accomplished the least in that entire battle.

Well...

I mean, Bran. But he's a close second.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Well...

I mean, Bran. But he's a close second.

Bran was busy getting a literal bird’s eye view. Don’t blame him for playing with his drones.

Though in reality he did do something important. He was the bait.

 

[HanSolo]

@McDNicks17

I get that, but I just felt like they first introduced him as an intelligent, basically all-knowing, magical, sentient being and then later on they essentially scrapped all that and just framed him as an elemental force with only his programmed objective in mind.

"Because he was introduced as such a powerful and magical being, I think people(or at least I did) expected something powerful and magical would be needed to beat him. If he was introduced as a Terminator-esque harbinger of death without all that, I think his death would have made more sense. The simplicity of dying the same way he was created would have been a good fit."

But that's more or less what happened. He was created with dragonglass shoved through his heart. I don't think that alone turns a human from a person to a white walker, but he took a stab from Valyrian steel...the effective equivalent of dragonglass to the heart

 

[Blender]

Seriously - they've been setting her up as a sneaky assassin the entire series. It is the opposite of a Deus Ex Machina. If any trope, it's like a really prolonged Chekhov's Gun.

I agree, it's a Chekhov's Gun. They gave Arya supernatural assassin powers, and years of experience gained through hardships. It all paid off last night and makes a ton of sense in retrospect.

Which character gave Arya the fast ball special? The Hound?

Again just so this conversation doesn't got any further than it needs to:

1. Deus ex Machina are solutions to a problem. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.
2. Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured, referenced or set-up earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear as a natural or a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".
3. Deus ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.
4. Deus ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.

 

[HanSolo]

Well...

I mean, Bran. But he's a close second.

Idk. Jon and Dany combined to knock the Night King off his dragon. That may not amount to much in the long run, but it's not nothing.

 

[Blender]

George Martin himself said don’t trust prophecies!!!

I mean this was literally spelled out for us since season 5 as well. We as the viewer experience Melisandre's faith in prophecies and visions completely shatter. She thought she had all the theories figured out, but all she was left with was glimpses of what was to come and she knew people she had seen in visions had important roles to play, but she didn't know how or why.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Oh and the dagger showed up in a book Sam was reading about the Long Night