TV: Game of Thrones | Season 6 | Part VI (NO BOOK DISCUSSION - NO SPOILERS!)

[Bubba Thudd]

Yeah, I definitely agree with the sentiment that she has a personal grudge with Arya, and that a girl who is no one will not carry a grudge.

That's where I think the Waif comes for Arya, they have this big discussion, then Jaqen appears and either kills the Waif, is killed by the Waif (and Arya finds out that that particular person had been Syrio) or Arya ends up killing the Waif.

I am kind of hoping the waif is just another person further along in her training. If they make the Waif somebody we've seen before (either from Arya's past or from another story) I think I'll be upset.


As for the Faceless Men only killing bad people, no. I don't buy that at all. Morality is subjective, first of all. Second of all, I don't understand how a guild of assassins can have a moral code. I understand they had humble beginnings and good intentions of freeing the Valyrian mine slaves, but I am in full belief that if a price is paid to them, they will kill their target.

Once a price is agreed upon and paid, the job gets done.

But they might not agree to just any job.

 

[Blender]

What grudge is there exactly? The waif was tasked with tailing her and putting her down during her training. She is a devoted member of the Faceless Men and has done her job to a tee. She hasn't spit in the face of their ways like Arya has.

The only reason Arya lasted this long before being green lit is because Jaqen liked her spunk and cleverness.

The Waif has never believed she is anything but Arya Stark from the start, and has always been the first to say she isn't ready, or doesn't belong. Maybe this is all part of the training, or maybe it's an actual grudge.

Once a price is agreed upon and paid, the job gets done.

But they might not agree to just any job.

Seems to me they are supporters of the common people, with Jaqen's speech about poor people having no recourse except their organization. If they agree to the job they do it, but I can see them being selective in both the job and the price.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The Waif has never believed she is anything but Arya Stark from the start, and has always been the first to say she isn't ready, or doesn't belong. Maybe this is all part of the training, or maybe it's an actual grudge.

Well, the waif is right.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

What grudge is there exactly? The waif was tasked with tailing her and putting her down during her training. She is a devoted member of the Faceless Men and has done her job to a tee. She hasn't spit in the face of their ways like Arya has.

The only reason Arya lasted this long before being green lit is because Jaqen liked her spunk and cleverness.

The Waif has never believed she is anything but Arya Stark from the start, and has always been the first to say she isn't ready, or doesn't belong. Maybe this is all part of the training, or maybe it's an actual grudge.

The Waif looks visibly irritated by Arya in multiple scenarios that were depicted. I think the exchange of when the Waif asks Arya her list and then asks "is that it?" to which Arya replies, "who would a girl like me to add?" showed me the Waif was expecting herself to be on it. Arya is playing a game with her like "tell me your name and I'll add it."

Basically what I am saying is that the Waif seems all too eager to get Arya out of training, leading me to believe she has a personal spite for her.

I guess time will tell, but to me, a girl who is no one should not have such a personal interest in seeing Arya fail. I could be wrong.

 

[ACC1224]

They don't always ask for money. She may have paid another price.

No doubt, faceless men have needs.

 

[Blender]

Well, the waif is right.

For sure, but she never gave Arya a chance from the start. Jaqen saw that she had a lot of potential and wanted to train her, but also recognized that she might have trouble being no one due to her past. The Waif just dismissed even giving her the chance based on who she is.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Yeah, gotta go with the Waif Wif No Name for the Death Pool this week.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

For sure, but she never gave Arya a chance from the start. Jaqen saw that she had a lot of potential and wanted to train her, but also recognized that she might have trouble being no one due to her past. The Waif just dismissed even giving her the chance based on who she is.

Yeah but the waif still helped train her.

She hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Yeah but the waif still helped train her.

She hasn't done anything wrong.

Yeah you're probably right, just can't figure out how Arya gets out unless the Waif is exposed for being a fraud.

 

[Blender]

Yeah but the waif still helped train her.

She hasn't done anything wrong.

Yes, she most definitely has. The Faceless Men are supposed to be no one. They are supposed to be emotionally detached and not let their personal feelings/biases get in the way of their duty. The Waif has been training her as she is supposed to do, but has been anything but emotionless and objective in doing so. Unless she is playing a part, which is possible, The Waif is acting like someone instead of no one.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

And how often has Arya failed to do that in comparison? Arya has also on two occasions failed to kill her targets based on her own choice to do so. Is the waif looking flustered supposed to be worse than not doing your actual job?

It would be a huge leap of logic by the writers of they went that route. It makes no sense.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

And how often has Arya failed to do that in comparison? Arya has also on two occasions failed to kill her targets based on her own choice to do so. Is the waif looking flustered supposed to be worse than not doing your actual job?

It would be a huge leap of logic by the writers of they went that route. It makes no sense.

It just seems out of character given how cool and calm Jaqen remains.

"It is all the same to the Many Faced God."

 

[suprvilce]

I think people are waaaaaay overthinking the 'no one' part. It's not like they become brainwashed zombies who only follow 0's and 1's. Like they said (in season 5 i think), it's a game.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It just seems out of character given how cool and calm Jaqen remains.

"It is all the same to the Many Faced God."

What seems out of character? Killing Arya?

Arya killed someone not named and failed to kill two people who were named. That's a bit of a no-no.

If Arya changes her face (not sure how she could get in the temple to do that but you never know) and kills the waif, I can see her being left alone (maybe). But not because it was part of her training.

 

[Siamese Dream]

A friend and me have been talking and come to a nice theory, maybe it's been discussed already: What if the real test for Arya was to in fact decline the order to kill the Cersei actress? What if the "face that will be added" is the waif's face, who obviously nurses some kind of grudge against Arya - something the Faceless Men don't like too much? What if the lesson for Arya was to be able to select orders or rather detect morally suspect orders and decline them? I mean we have never seen Jaqen H'ghar kill innocents so it's likely it's against their code. Arya declining to kill the actress was her "test in the test". She passed the test, the waif on the other hand failed it and will pay the price for it (as Arya is going to kill her).

I think whatever Arya did she was in a no-win situation.

If she doesn't do it she disobeyed orders, if she does do it she gets accused of only doing it because Arya Stark wants to kill Cersei.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Yeah you're probably right, just can't figure out how Arya gets out unless the Waif is exposed for being a fraud.

I think there's something to your theory. Yes the waif has done everything that Jaaqen has asked of her, but seems to have done so begrudgingly. I'm guessing she was a little jealous of the extra attention Arya was getting.

 

[Blender]

The two deaths that Jaqen ordered Arya to carry out went very differently I noticed. When she was asked to kill the thin man, Jaqen gave her a lot of details, why he has it coming, etc. Gave her an explanation about a poor widow having no recourse to deal with the thin man but their organization. When he asked her to kill the actress, he told her to essentially not ask questions and serve the many faced god as she is told.

 

[Eye of Ra]

would be cool to see Asshai.

 

[Blender]

I still can't get over Mace Tyrell either. Has one of his guards guiding his horse for him, so all he is going is riding it and not controlling it, and he brings his mother along to oversee and control the situation. What an oaf.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I thought the episode was pretty solid

I liked the return of KL politics honestly. Tommen is getting played like a fiddle but I do wonder who gets the upper hand in the end here.

Yeah, I enjoyed this episode. Had a bit of an earlier-season feel to it. Plus, enjoyed the long-awaited Benjen return (awaited, not necessarily expected )

 

[hototogisu]

Yes, she most definitely has. The Faceless Men are supposed to be no one. They are supposed to be emotionally detached and not let their personal feelings/biases get in the way of their duty. The Waif has been training her as she is supposed to do, but has been anything but emotionless and objective in doing so. Unless she is playing a part, which is possible, The Waif is acting like someone instead of no one.

Couldn't you argue Jaqen himself showed bias by giving Arya a second chance and removing her blindness?

I don't know who makes the rules in that organization, just to say that we should be careful about saying Arya/The Waif did/didn't break the rules when none of us really know what "the rules" are.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

It's obviously all speculation, not sure what to expect with her storyline honestly.

IDK if anyone is listening to these when I post, but what the hell. We did a review on this episode.

https://soundcloud.com/wood-and-the-bone-present/episode-20-blood-of-my-blood

Also on iTunes under Throne Improvement.

 

[ACC1224]

I still can't get over Mace Tyrell either. Has one of his guards guiding his horse for him, so all he is going is riding it and not controlling it, and he brings his mother along to oversee and control the situation. What an oaf.

Thought she's his wife?

 

[Blender]

Thought she's his wife?

Nope. Olenna is Mace's mother. Loras and Margaery are Mace's children and Olenna's grandchildren.

 

[ACC1224]

Nope. Olenna is Mace's mother. Loras and Margaery are Mace's children and Olenna's grandchildren.

Thanks, I probably knew that.

I can follow the various story lines but I struggle with remembering all the characters.
Now that a few have come back from years ago, my confusion has been raised.