Post-Game Talk: GAME #65: Canucks 2 @ Coyotes 5: Brad Richardson with the quad damage

[me2]

Funny how Dipietro let’s in 7 to one of the best teams in the league and The sky is falling. Demko let’s in 5 against the coyotes and no reaction.

We get it, you think Benning sucks at drafting goalies.

 

[me2]

they got in at 3am from mile high city

schedule making is insanely stupid

I have to agree with that. Although you wonder why you wouldn't sleep over in Denver and fly in the next morning, I am not sure who though a 2-3am trip was smart.

 

[VanJack]

When your powerplay is 1-45 at this point in the season, you basically have no chance to stay relevant in a playoff race. Just an embarrassing effort in arguably the most important game of the year.

If Benning is seriously assessing this roster for the rest of the season, then this road-trip needs to be the measuring stick. Another game where the Canuck blueline reveals its true colours, one of the worst in the entire NHL.

The last month isn't about 'meaningful games', it's about experimentation and the stealth tank to prep for the draft lottery.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Pro scouting? Roussel Leivo Pearson Schenn look like pretty big pro scouting wins. Previous pro scouting wins like Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata. Go ahead and beat the Ericsson drum for the billionth time. There’s an exception to every rule and unexpected things happen.

Beyond that my original point was to demonstrate that the decision making process in place here has led to a roster and prospect pool that no one in their right mind would trade for the result of the decision making process in Arizona which by the way decided to get Richardson. You’re being a hypocrite by critiquing the decision making process But not being willing to trade rosters and prospects with the decision making process in Arizona.

Am I supposed to be happy that the 50-year-old Canadian pro hockey club that I've been following for more than three decades isn't ran quite as horribly as the bankrupt joke in the middle of the Arizona desert? Talk about low standards.

Schenn? BIG pro-scouting win? You know Schenn was on waivers and could have been had for free, right? Where were our pro scouts then? Passing on him, because he's a cap dump. He looks like a decent 7th defenseman for a team with the worst defensive depth in the NHL. Yeah, I'm rooting for him, but please... The Ducks aren't the first team to give up on Schenn and won't be the last. Leivo - another dump, because he couldn't crack an elite Leaf roster and Dubas promised to find him a place to play, then Dubas worked the phones. Benning waits for the phone to ring, as usual. Not pro-active at all. We got him because we're so poorly constructed on the wings that Dubas targeted us as a place Leivo would get an opportunity. I'm happy enough with the acquisition, but I won't praise Benning for passively taking anything he can get for the pile of garbage he's stacked up high. Just like Pearson, a GM calls him at the 11th hour desperate for help on D, and finally, finally we get rid of our anchor.

It's pretty clear where you stand when you bring up middling low-risk, low-cost tweener reclamation projects as "BIG wins" and ignore the prospects and picks pissed away acquiring the true "wins" like Gudbranson, Vey, and Baertschi. A lot of good those players are doing us now, "filling the age gap." Was it worth it? Did it move us from 30th in the league to 29th? For someone that's so fixated on prospects (and rightfully so, given the rebuilding phase this team *should* be in) I would expect this waste would really, really grind your gears.

Now, I liked Dorsett, but was it worth a 3rd to try to keep us out of the basement? Gudbranson alone costed a 24th overall, a 33rd overall, and a 94th overall. We "recovered this value" by exchanging him straight across for yet another "middle 6 winger" that's been recycled around the league. Wonderful asset management. All those lottery tickets spent on trash. A mid 2nd rounder spent on Baertschi, to "fill the age gap." Again, for what? To keep us out of dead last in the NHL? Flipped a higher pick in the Sutter trade. A 5th for Larsen. 4th for Pouliot. None of these moves make sense in a rebuild. This team BLEEDS picks.

Yes, the pro scouting has been such a "win" that the team continues to be one of the absolute worst in the league. How can you say that with a straight face? If their pro-scouting was even average, they would be average. The only players to play to expectation are Dorsett and Roussel. Heart and soul grinders, kind of hard to screw up that pro-scouting assessment, and not hard to cut a big cheque and give longer term than any sane team would for such pieces. The analytics on guys that play like Roussel, well, enjoy the third and fourth year of that contract...

Never before have I seen a "rebuilding" team somehow end up with fewer high-end picks than they started with. How much better would our prospect pool look if we had a potato in charge instead, and kept all our picks? I bet you would be a big Mr.Potatohead fan. The cupboard would be WELL stocked with a nice dirty half-sprouting russet potato heading up the organization, and it wouldn't have affected the team's placement in the standings at all!

Fourth goal for Richardson. $1,250,000. This is a decent player Benning booted to the curb, only to replace him with pieces three times more expensive and half as effective. Management matters. I don't care if they suck now, they're supposed to! But they didn't have to bleed so many draft picks, or sign fourth liners to long-term deals, which will handcuff us exactly when we need the cap space. This organization used to have a capologist! What happened!? We'll already be up against the cap next year, and nowhere close to competitive.

I don't want to further muck up a game thread with management talk, since many people loathe it. Quote me in another thread if you want to continue the conversation, though I suspect it will just go in circles.

See you on the battlefield. Later.

 

[me2]

Demko should absolutely be starting at least 50% of the remaining games. Season doesn't matter anymore and need to see where he is at.

If he looks ready then shop Markstrom in the offseason.

I don't get the rush to trade Markstrom, who do you replace him with? Obviously not a true #1 on a long term deal if the plan is Demko long term, so some washed up vet on a cheap 2 year deal? What happens if Demko struggles is you have nothing decent in goal.

If Demko and Markstrom split games and both do well then you can trade Markstrom mid-season to a desperate team trying to save their season. If Demko stinks and Markstrom does well, sign Markstrom. If they both stink, go #1 shopping.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Am I supposed to be happy that the 50 year old Canadian pro hockey team that I've been following for more than three decades isn't ran quite as horribly as the bankrupt joke in the middle of the Arizona desert? Talk about low standards.

Schenn? BIG pro-scouting win? You know Schenn was on waivers and could have been had for free, right? He looks like a decent 7th defenseman fora team with the worst defensive depth in the NHL. Yeah, I'm rooting for him, but please... The Ducks aren't the first team to give up on Schenn and won't be the last. He was a cap dump. Leivo, another dump, because he couldn't crack an elite Leaf roster and Dubas promised to find him a place to play, then Dubas worked the phones. Benning waits for the phone to ring, as usual. Not pro-active at all. We got him because we're so poorly constructed on the wings that Dubas targeted us as a place Leivo would get a decent opportunity. I'm happy enough with the acquisition, but I won't praise Benning for taking anything he can get and waiting to see if it works out because he's built a team with no wingers and no D. Just like Pearson, a GM calls him at the 11th hour desperate for help on D, and finally, finally we get rid of our anchor.

Pretty clear where you stand when you bring up middling low-risk, low-cost tweener reclamation projects as "BIG wins" and ignore the prospects and picks pissed away acquiring the truly "big" wins like Gudbranson, Vey, and Baertschi. A lot of good those players are doing us now, "filling the age gap." Was it worth it? Did it move us from 30th in the league to 29th in the league? For someone that's fixated on prospects (and rightfully so, given the rebuilding phase this team *should* be in) I would expect this waste would really, really grind your gears.

Now, I liked Dorsett, but was it worth a 3rd to try to keep us out of the basement? Gudbranson alone costed a 24th overall, a 33rd overall, and a 94th overall. We "recovered this value" by exchanging him straight across for yet another "middle 6 winger" that's been recycled around the league. Wonderful asset management. All those lottery tickets spent on trash. A mid 2nd rounder spent on Baertschi, to "fill the age gap." Again, for what? To keep us out of dead last in the NHL? Flipped a higher pick in the Sutter trade. A 5th for Larsen. 4th for Pouliot. None of these moves make sense in a rebuild. This team BLEEDS picks.

Yes, the pro scouting has been such a "win" that the team continues to be one of the absolute worst in the league. How can you say with a straight face? If their pro-scouting was even average, they would be average. The only players to play to expectation are Dorsett and Roussel. Heart and soul grinders, kind of hard to screw up that pro-scouting assessment, and not hard to cut a big cheque and give longer term than any sane team would for such pieces. The analytics on guys that play like Roussel, well, enjoy the third and fourth year of that contract... Never before have I seen a "rebuilding" team somehow end up with *fewer* high-end picks than they started with. I wonder how much better our prospect pool would look if we had a potato in charge, and kept all our picks. I bet you would be a big Potato fan. The cupboard would be WELL stocked with a nice dirty half-sprouting russet potato heading up the organization.

Fourth goal for Richardson. $1,250,000. This is a decent player Benning booted to the curb, only to replace him with pieces three times more expensive and half as effective. Management matters. I don't care if they suck now, they're supposed to! But they didn't have to bleed so many draft picks, or sign fourth liners to long-term deals, which will handcuff us exactly when we need the cap space. This organization used to have a capologist! What happened!? We'll already be up against the cap next year, and nowhere close to competitive.

I don't want to further muck up a game thread with management talk, since many people loathe it. Quote me in another thread if you want to continue the conversation, though I suspect it will just go in circles.

See you on the battlefield. Later.

You spent too much energy to reply to an idiot

 

[Melvin]

I don't get the rush to trade Markstrom, who do you replace him with? Obviously not a true #1 on a long term deal if the plan is Demko long term, so some washed up vet on a cheap 2 year deal? What happens if Demko struggles is you have nothing decent in goal.

If Demko and Markstrom split games and both do well then you can trade Markstrom mid-season to a desperate team trying to save their season. If Demko stinks and Markstrom does well, sign Markstrom. If they both stink, go #1 shopping.

If Demko is ready why wait? That's my only point really. We need to evaluate Demko.

Fully expecting him to get two more starts this season though.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

You spent too much energy to reply to an idiot

Taken under advisement. Thanks.

 

[tyhee]

He's either injured, needs rest or needs a kick in the ass. They need to sit Boeser no matter which one.

That didn't go over so well last season when Boeser started the preseason strongly, finished it for whatever reason with two bad games lacking production, defence and effort and sat for two games to start the season. The media and fans screamed bloody murder all season long and people still use it to argue Green is a bad coach.

 

[me2]

If Demko is ready why wait? That's my only point really. We need to evaluate Demko.

Fully expecting him to get two more starts this season though.

His AHL work isn't overwhelming and 10 NHL games won't tell you if he is ready. It will tell you if he need to be sent back down for another AHL year but it won't tell you if he is an NHL starter.

 

[me2]

That didn't go over so well last season when Boeser started the preseason strongly, finished it for whatever reason with two bad games lacking production, defence and effort and sat for two games to start the season. The media and fans screamed bloody murder all season long and people still use it to argue Green is a bad coach.

"Nagging injury need a few days recovery"

 

[orcatown]

Team looked bushed and whatever air was still in the balloon was squished out tonight as far as the season goes. Maybe the most revealing take is the way Richardson lit us up. Just another asset Benning let go for nothing. And you could make a extremely long list of those. So many times the the Dim One has kept players to eke out a few more useless late season wins when they could and should have been used to get draft choices.

The old truth about sport franchises applies here - THE GOOD MANAGEMENTS WILL SUCCEED AND THE BAD ONES WON'T. This is a truism we are see playing out with the Canucks

Good

Stecher - continues to be our best defenseman.

Roussel - great motor. Never threw in the towel. Remains one of the best forwards.

Bad

Horvat - had nothing going. Sort of epitomized the Canucks in this game - simply no gas in the tank. Was defensively awful. -4 sums up that

Demko - first game in a while so give him some slack. But he wasn't good. Without Markstrom being all world the Canucks are in big trouble.

Hutton - played to death in Denver and had nothing in this game. Slow skating, slow reacting, slow passing, slow shooting and everything else. Play on the PP was very poor.

Gaudette - you like the speed but often guessing where he should be going. Has to learn the pro game

Eriksson - basically a poor 4th line plug - not sure even the miserable Schaller might be better. What a hideous signing

Boeser - really. really bad in his end and mostly just wildly shooting the puck on offense. How much does he get re-signed for???????

Others

Edler - lots of rust. Plays like this and you should not get near to giving him a sweetheart contract. Edler situation is a looming problem.

Pearson - nice goal and he was getting chances. So far the trade looks good.

Spooner - has tantalizing speed and quickness to his game. Can see the high end skill. You wonder if this can ever translate that into anything substantial or if just becomes a perimeter type who could can kick in with the smooth play here and there (and that seems his history)

Schenn - again thought he was solid. Sautner also had better game.

Pettersson - looks tired and lack of strength is becoming evident.

Team absolutely needs to forget playoffs (won't get in and if they ever did would get creamed) and focus on younger players such as Demko as they prepare for off season decisions.

 

[me2]

Schenn was awesome again tonight though, tbh.

He was dumped on us to free up money and a contract slot for Anaheim, he wasn't some master stroke Benning targeted, he was in the AHL for them and went straight to our AHL team. There was no plan for him.

 

[Diamonddog01]

He's have a career year, there is that to feel good about. The problem with him is the same as when we signed him - years 3 and 4.

He’s 29. He’ll be 32 when the last year kicks in. Doubt it’ll be an issue.

 

[tyhee]

"Nagging injury need a few days recovery"

If you're claiming that's why Boeser sat the first two games last season, it's different from what what Green and Boeser said at the time. Green attributed it to Boeser looking tired the last two games of the preseason. Boeser agreed.

If you're saying it's the case this year, I haven't seen a report of Boeser having a current injury and the post I'd replied to had taken it into account, saying he needed to be sat for whatever the reason for his play is.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Boeser is a one-dimensional shooter with a decent shot. Concern about Boeser as a prospect was his skating and this has proven to be true, but his skating has further regressed with his weight gain.

 

[me2]

If you're claiming that's why Boeser sat the first two games last season, it's different from what what Green and Boeser said at the time. Green attributed it to Boeser looking tired the last two games of the preseason. Boeser agreed.

If you're saying it's the case this year, I haven't seen a report of Boeser having a current injury and the post I'd replied to had taken it into account, saying he needed to be sat for whatever the reason for his play is.

This year. Nobody would question it, he looks like he's slow and not 100%.

 

[Phenomenon13]

If Demko is ready why wait? That's my only point really. We need to evaluate Demko.

Fully expecting him to get two more starts this season though.

Markstrom should be given a short deal 2 years max. Young goalies fault sometimes and we need someone solid to lean on. Markstrom should be split starts. Unless, markstrom gets significant pull on trade value I don't see us moving him.

I guess Ryan Miller might be coming back If we move him.

 

[MS]

Didn’t think we were nearly as bad as some here are claiming. We were the better team by a mile in the first 35 minutes and outshooting and outchancing them by a 2-1 margin. Arizona had I think 8 shots in the first 35 minutes.

But a breakaway out of the penalty box, a really weak goal on Demko, and a brutal Boeser backcheck all against the flow of play and it’s 3-1.

PP is just a complete mess. And the coaching staff just seem to be guessing there right now.

- Boeser-Horvat were very poor. Horvat looks gassed and Boeser looks ... not good. Wouldn’t expect Goldobin to be the guy whose effort level was going the most to help the line but that’s how it was.

- Pettersson is officially in a slump. Long season and multiple times being banged up starting to show.

- Pearson’s skating is just fugly. But he’s strong along the boards and was mostly effective and his finish on his goal was really nice. Funny how he and Leivo are such similar players - useful middle-6 bookends and both are a big upgrade on Granlund.

- Roussel was excellent. Busted his ass all night and deserved to be rewarded with that goal.

- Spooner is everything on the perimeter but that was a really nice pass on Pearson’s goal.

- nice to see Edler back but he struggled. Caught up ice for odd-man rushes on 2 of the 4 goals. Rusty passing the puck. Biega as the other member of that pairing was again really good aside from not stopping the pass as the last guy on 2-on-1s.

- Schenn should be re-signed. Impressive. Sautner also with a nice night alongside.

- Hutton-Stecher pairing was mostly good although you can see the heavy use starting to drag down Hutton’s skating and he was a bit wobbly in that regard at tiles. Stecher is playing really well.

- Demko ... not good. But probably to be expected when it’s his 2nd game in 2 months. Did not seem to be tracking the puck well at all. This is a very different game with Markstrom in net.

- so happy for Richardson. When a guy snaps his leg at age 32 you wonder if his career will be over but he’s come back better than ever. Better player than Brandon Sutter and a guy we should never have let go.

 

[timw33]

they got in at 3am from mile high city

schedule making is insanely stupid

Remember when we employed sleep specialists and learned that it's better to sleep after a game and travel on a gameday for optimal performance?

 

[PM]

Markstrom is the teams MVP. We can’t win without him standing on his head. Will be interesting to see if he can carry this into next year.

 

[PM]

Remember when we employed sleep specialists and learned that it's better to sleep after a game and travel on a gameday for optimal performance?

I was going to say... why don’t they just fly over in the morning? Other than saving a few bucks I see zero reason to take the red eye when a morning flight can still get you there with time to spare.

 

[topched88]

I had the oddest thought watching tonight. Felt like our team missed Jake? We look slow.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Doing my morning routine of Coffee & Canucks here in Finland.

The D looks bad. Most noticeably Edler and Biega.
Offence looks competely flat. Jesus Boeser was horrendous on the 3. goal...
Not blaming Demko for any of the 3 goals so far. (1/2 way through)

 

[member 290103]

Aquaman is missing playoff revenue in his back pocket.

Don't mistake me for a second that I think Aquaman is a meddling owner that has made a number of bad decisions. That said, I don't necessarily buy the "playoff revenue" argument with him. If there is one thing he has shown he is more than willing to do, it's spend. I honestly think it's an ego thing for him. He wants team success and is unwilling to wait for it. If he would just get someone in there that was smart.....and let them have a run for two or three years uninterrupted....

One big fear I do have is that Benning gets turfed and Weisbrod weasels his way in as the GM.

While on the topic of Weisbrod, how much do you all want to bet the big offer that Calgary made for Edler that blew the Canucks away was for Jankowski. Weisbrod probably went to Benning and told him that was a deal they had to make, obsessed as he is with Mark J.