Confirmed with Link: Gagner, pick for Pronger and Grossman

[AZviaNJ]

What should they do? Not hit the floor, forego revenue sharing, and ensure the team is gone next year? Or, perhaps, trade every prospect and pick the Coyotes have for a few older, more expensive players?

What is your solution? You seem to have something in mind. The Pronger contract provides a great deal of flexibility to the franchise, and allows Maloney to not be painted into a corner where he is forced to deal the future for salary.

I'd also like to remind anyone saying how "cheap" ownership is that July 1st is the probably the day you want to wait for before making such proclamations.

If they spend to the cap floor I have no beef. We'll see post July 1.

 

[Mosby]

Thoughts on doing a Duclair/NYR situation with Perlini? i.e., have him start in the NHL, go back for the WJC, and then finish the year in juniors. Samuelsson could then be re-called to fill in his roster spot.

 

[kihekah19*]

What should they do? Not hit the floor, forego revenue sharing, and ensure the team is gone next year? Or, perhaps, trade every prospect and pick the Coyotes have for a few older, more expensive players?

What is your solution? You seem to have something in mind. The Pronger contract provides a great deal of flexibility to the franchise, and allows Maloney to not be painted into a corner where he is forced to deal the future for salary.

I'd also like to remind anyone saying how "cheap" ownership is that July 1st is the probably the day you want to wait for before making such proclamations.

Probably the best post you've ever written. In no small part to the fact that it's optimistic.

 

[kihekah19*]

Lifelong Flyer fan here. Just wanted to chime in and say don't listen to those who claim Grossmann sucks. While he has his limitations, Grossmann is a solid player when healthy. Many ignorant folks come down on him due to advanced stats and such.

Thanks for the input, you seem to a solid grasp on Grossmann.

Sometimes I don't know if the ignorant are just the loudest, or are in the majority. I fear it's the latter.

 

[Phil Parent]

I hear Marc Savard's available!

 

[kihekah19*]

I hear Marc Savard's available!

I hear K-bec has an empty arena.

 

[rt]

Thoughts on doing a Duclair/NYR situation with Perlini? i.e., have him start in the NHL, go back for the WJC, and then finish the year in juniors. Samuelsson could then be re-called to fill in his roster spot.

Wouldn't burn an ELC year for it. He can have 9 games.

 

[rt]

I hear Marc Savard's available!

Toss in Loui Eriksson and we'll help you right out.

 

[hbk]

Wouldn't burn an ELC year for it. He can have 9 games.

How do the AHL games count that he's played so far?

 

[rt]

How do the AHL games count that he's played so far?

No idea.

 

[lanky]

How do the AHL games count that he's played so far?

No impact on his ELC, it hasn't kicked in yet.

 

[XX]

People who claim Grossmann sucks seem to ignore those types of plays which he does routinely, because it goes against their narrative on the player...

Grossmann is pretty bad. He's a Swedish version of Andrew Campbell. He will be bad at everything except clearing the crease occasionally.

 

[SweYote]

Grossmann is pretty bad. He's a Swedish version of Andrew Campbell. He will be bad at everything except clearing the crease occasionally.

Wasn't the reason they hired the Moneyball guy as assistant GM to avoid players like this?

 

[fauxflex]

Grossmann is pretty bad. He's a Swedish version of Andrew Campbell. He will be bad at everything except clearing the crease occasionally.

That blog entry is trash. Perfect example of advanced stats interpretation being generalized in order to draw (erroneous) conclusions. In this particular case, it was well refuted by posternutbagofbones in the comments below the entry if you care to read it.

BSH has a lot of such garbage on it. They're the same outfit that brought us such blogs as "Flyers already Have Ryan Suter in Matt Carle"

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...rs-matt-carle-ryan-suter-nhl-free-agency-2012

Don't believe everything you read.

 

[XX]

That blog entry is trash. Perfect example of advanced stats interpretation being generalized in order to draw (erroneous) conclusions. In this particular case, it was well refuted by posternutbagofbones in the comments below the entry if you care to read it.

Yeah, too bad Grossmann doesn't suppress any shots, so the "refuting" is a lot of hot air. Giving up shot attempts against and blocking them is not good defense. Zbynek Michalek rates better than Grossmann in every way and he looks about done as a top 4 guy.

Via the eye test, Grossmann can appear to be the Flyers' best pure defensive defenseman. To start, the Swedish blueliner generally avoids the egregious positioning errors that plague the Flyers at times. He is always among the team leaders in blocked shots. He plays physical without taking himself out of the play, unlike his sometimes overaggressive teammate, Luke Schenn. And overall, he seems to have a calm, controlled demeanor in the defensive end.

But maybe Grossmann gets a bit too comfortable in the defensive zone. After all, he's by far the worst Flyers defenseman at escaping it.

Thanks to the work of Pierce Cuneen (@pcuneen19) and @2_for_slashing, defensive zone exits have been tracked for each Philadelphia Flyers game. Total exit attempts, successful exit percentage, and successful exits with possession have all been recorded.

The numbers are not flattering to Grossmann.

He ranks last among Flyers defensemen with a successful defensive zone exit percentage of 66.8 percent. So for every three chances that Grossmann has to clear the puck out of the defensive zone, he fails to do so at least once.

It gets even worse when it comes to zone exits with possession. Only 31.1 percent of Grossmann's zone exit attempts leave the defensive end successfully and also see the Flyers retain possession of the puck past the blue line.

That's by far the worst on the team -- a full eight percentage points worse than any other Flyer. A majority of his "successful" zone exits lead to results such as misfired passes, harmless neutral zone clearing attempts that go right back to the opposition, or icings.

Grossmann may make fewer obvious mistakes in his own end than other defensemen (debatable, but possible). But when his inability to clear the zone results in extended cycles and repeated opponent possessions, shots and chances continue to add up. Eventually, some of those constant chances are bound to become goals.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/1/29/5355654/nicklas-grossmann-analysis-bad-flyers

It's a lot of pressure to put on his partner, in this case Stone or Murphy. He's a middling stay at home type on a team starved for offense. That's not going to go over well.

I'm not disgusted with the move but people saying he's going to be just fine playing 2nd pairing minutes on this team are ****ing crazy.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I hear Marc Savard's available!

He can coach the inaugural 2035 season of the new Quebec Nordiques!

 

[rt]

He absolutely should not get 2nd pair 5v5 time. He should get 3rd pair 5v5 and top PK mins. We had all better be praying that Klas Dahlbeck isn't a flash in the pan that regresses. He had better continue those big strides he made last season.

 

[XX]

He absolutely should not get 2nd pair 5v5 time.

Maloney interview says that's where they see him playing. Really hope that's not the case.

 

[KG]

I don't think our team is going to be competitive next season, so I don't see the big deal.

 

[rt]

Maloney interview says that's where they see him playing. Really hope that's not the case.

Let's hope Dahlbeck forces the issue.

 

[Sciamachy]

If we're going to pick stats from Grossmans worst month last season to prove how disastrously awful he is than lets also judge OEL by his play in October and November last year to decide if we really think he's good for this team. Over the entire season Grossman falls right along with the rest of Phillys dmen.

He's a one year mentor for Dahlbeck, at worst. Maybe there were some moderately better options that fit this teams build plan available, maybe not. But I can sure think of a several far, far worse scenarios than this one that DM could have done to put a vet player in the LD rotation.

 

[XX]

I don't think our team is going to be competitive next season, so I don't see the big deal.

There's a difference between being competitive but losing a whole lot and being soul-crushingly bad. Can't have the latter. Bad for development, bad for the coffers.

If we're going to pick stats from Grossmans worst month last season to prove how disastrously awful he is than lets also judge OEL by his play in October and November last year to decide if we really think he's good for this team. Over the entire season Grossman falls right along with the rest of Phillys dmen.

If you look up his stats on a longer timeline they're equally as ****ty, if that's any comfort to you.

 

[fauxflex]

Yeah, too bad Grossmann doesn't suppress any shots, so the "refuting" is a lot of hot air. Giving up shot attempts against and blocking them is not good defense. Zbynek Michalek rates better than Grossmann in every way and he looks about done as a top 4 guy.



http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/1/29/5355654/nicklas-grossmann-analysis-bad-flyers

It's a lot of pressure to put on his partner, in this case Stone or Murphy. He's a middling stay at home type on a team starved for offense. That's not going to go over well.

I'm not disgusted with the move but people saying he's going to be just fine playing 2nd pairing minutes on this team are ****ing crazy.

There are still issues with extrapolating too much from those stats but that's a whole other discussion.

I'm not here to say Grossmann is a great defenseman. I'm just contradicting those who perceive him as a completely inept, slow footed goon who can barely skate or move the puck or those who make sweeping negative generalizations about him based largely on small sample sizes of corsi stats.

There were certain times (not nearly enough) when the Flyers stressed it and played good team-defense on the ice, and in those times, Grossmann's corsi and other numbers improved accordingly. Not to completely excuse the player, because there were certainly some stretches of play where he struggled (mostly when playing injured), but with his style of play, he needs solid support from his teammates to play without overexposing his deficiencies.

I'd say at this point he's probably best suited for about 16-18 mins a night playing on a team with good team d, and a partner who can carry most of the offensive responsibilities...spot him in in certain situations, especially when playing teams with a strong net-front presence that he can defend etc..

 

[EXTRAS]

So Arcobello is our #1/#2 Centerman next season. Lets hope he can step up and get those super AHL numbers to translate to the NHL.

 

[XX]

I'm not here to say Grossmann is a great defenseman. I'm just contradicting those who perceive him as a completely inept, slow footed goon who can barely skate or move the puck or those who make sweeping negative generalizations about him based largely on small sample sizes of corsi stats.

I see a great deal of merit to the idea they are going for here. A lot of us have long advocated for the D to get heavier, meaner, and able to clear the crease. The problem is that Yandle is now gone, almost certainly to be replaced by a player that is nowhere near as good in transition. They can't really afford to take on a guy that sucks at moving the puck forward, even if he has some merit as a net front specialist. He's going to be moving the puck forward to what is probably a number of inexperienced players to boot, and has no experienced partner to cover for him.

Derek Morris was let go and he was a better player.

The team was really bad after Yandle left. This move is like digging a trench in front of Smith and handing out flak jackets.