Empoleon8771
Registered User
If you lose Rowney, you lose your 5th center too. The Penguins don't have another guy on the roster who can play center, which presents an issue.
Salary Cap: Future Roster Building (2017-18 and beyond) Pt. 4 | Contract/FA charts in Post #1
- Thread starter Malkinstheman
- Start date
- Status
If you lose Rowney, you lose your 5th center too. The Penguins don't have another guy on the roster who can play center, which presents an issue.
mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
- 32,616
- 5,074
That's fair. And why you may look to sign a guy like Moore instead of Kunitz.
I just don't want this team falling back into to the mindset that a 4th line can be composed of guys who never score. Like Rowney. Going from Cullen to that is a severe drop off.
That wasn't true at least half the time they were on the ice. And may be very untrue after another season of wear and tear on his ageing body.
Or may not be as he won't skate anywhere in the regular season.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,592
- 21,132
mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
- 32,616
- 5,074
One produced offense in the playoffs. The other didn't. I don't care if one is more pleasing to the eye or appears to work harder.
Kunitz is a 4th liner who can occasionally give you spot duty in the top 9. Rowney is a spare forward who can play on your 4th line.
Also if we're worried about 4th liners that don't score (as we should be)...
Kunitz recorded a goal every 120.7 minutes of ice time during the regular season and Rowney recorded one every 112.5.
Kunitz is not the answer.
And I don't think a sudden burst of points in one last super-hurculean effort at the end of the play-offs makes him the answer either. I hate betting on him doing that again particularly if he's with actual fourth line talent.
Kunitz recorded a goal every 120.7 minutes of ice time during the regular season and Rowney recorded one every 112.5.
Kunitz is not the answer.
And I don't think a sudden burst of points in one last super-hurculean effort at the end of the play-offs makes him the answer either. I hate betting on him doing that again particularly if he's with actual fourth line talent.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,592
- 21,132
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I think there may have been a slight discrepancy in TOI and quality of linemates over that period.
With a player like Kunitz?
That's right, you can't. Well you can, but you really shouldn't.
Too lazy to look at all his games but over half his points came in game 7 vs Ottawa and the first two games against Nashville. One of Sid, Geno, Kessel or Guentzel is involved in 5 of those 7 points (one goal with Sheary and Cullen, one assist for Bonino's empty netter). Which goes to show he can be really good in bursts with quality players until his legs fall off again. Which is not to be sniffed at, but its not proof he'd add 4th line scoring either.
Only 2 more minutes a game though.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
I don't want to bring back Kunitz. But let's not blame linemates for why Rowney doesn't score. The guy is never going to be a scorer, even by 4th line standards.
Ideally he's no more than the 13th forward to start next year.
Ideally he's no more than the 13th forward to start next year.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,592
- 21,132
Agreed with all of that but if we're gonna say the difference between Kunitz and Rowney is that one will bring fourth line scoring and the other won't, its probably fair to look at Kunitz's scoring and whether that's true, or whether it's they both won't.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
sure, but put Rowney in the same position Kunitz was in, he doesn't put up those points. Now he may have been more effective for the preceding 95 games or whatever, but Kunitz made some nice plays in the last 7 games here
Like I said, I wouldn't bring Kunitz back at all, and I'd bring Rowney back to be our 13th forward. So yeah, I agree.
Can't we just hire Kunitz in some other role to keep him around? Morale officer? Director of On Ice Accountability?
- Jun 13, 2010
- 40,721
- 18,950
This. There's just so little incentive to do it. His replacement value is very low statistics wise. Not Glass/Adams low, but a player making a quarter of what he does could replace production. I believe we will be okay with the loss of his leadership. I mean, yeah he's a great guy and all and no doubt he's scored some big goals for us in the playoffs but sometimes you just have to move on from players. Not because you want to but because you need too. We have too many young guys we need to get on this roster. I don't want guys like Kunitz and a guy like Porter to be blocking guys like Archibald, Kuhnhackl, and perhaps guys like Sprong and ZAR.
There's this too. At best, he'll be a 3rd line wing. At worst, 4th line center/wing/utility guy. We know they'll scratch him if he doesn't perform and that's what we need - players who are scratchable if they don't do well. Kunitz's play by all means should have had him scratched several times but we all know it wasn't happening. Best case was to relegate him to the 4th line and limit ice time.
Oh come on, don't be like that. One of the biggest issues this org had from 2009 to 2015 was their inability to let go of players they should have.
This. 4th line C/W have their value. Everyone's healthy, HS him and we're no worse off. It's not as big of a deal as it would be to do it to Kunitz. There's value in that from a roster management standpoint.
Are we allowed to tell Kunitz to stay fit and we'll sign him back come the trade deadline, so he can be here for play offs and not stink the joint up regular season?
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,592
- 21,132
Probably not. But it's worth mentioning that 7 of Kunitz's 11 points came on goals where one of Crosby, Malkin, or Kessel (who Rowney never plays with) also had a point. The offensive difference isn't nearly as pronounced as the raw totals might suggest.
A lot easier to rack up points when you're always playing with an elite player...despite how difficult Kunitz made it look for most of last year.
Now he may have been more effective for the preceding 95 games or whatever, but Kunitz made some nice plays in the last 7 games here
True.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,592
- 21,132
I'd also like to point out that if you advocate for Kunitz to be re-signed, you don't get to complain when he's regularly used on a scoring line.
Because if the former happens, the latter is inevitable.
Because if the former happens, the latter is inevitable.
Penske
Kunitz wasn't there
- Jan 13, 2016
- 5,262
- 2
No he won't but he'll do a hell of a job keeping the puck in the o zone. Let his wingers capitalise on that
JimmyTwoTimes
Registered User
- Apr 13, 2010
- 19,958
- 5,281
Bones and especially Cullen will be hard to replace. I don't think Rowney can fill a role even as a 4C on a cup winning team. He is a #5 center IMO. Sundqvist needs to become and everyday NHLer and may need to do it at wing. I would rather bring in 2 centres, assuming Cullen retires and Bones walks.
Center depth is what is winning us cups IMO.
Center depth is what is winning us cups IMO.
MrBrightside
Registered User
The Penguins have won back-to-back Stanley Cups and people are still worried about who plays on what line in November and December and if Kunitz gets used properly. I just don't get the obsession. It's insanity.
And really, with the Pens likely to have Guentzel, Sheary, Hornqvist, Kessel, Hagelin, Sprong, Wilson,and Rust available, the odds on Kunitz playing top 6 next year are pretty damn small.
And really, with the Pens likely to have Guentzel, Sheary, Hornqvist, Kessel, Hagelin, Sprong, Wilson,and Rust available, the odds on Kunitz playing top 6 next year are pretty damn small.
SirBrad
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2009
- 11,010
- 1,625
It is pretty crazy. I am more interested in whether or not they have enough warm bodies to be like 26-30 deep in December and January because you'll be rotating players in and out of the lineup and on and off lines and dealing with injuries all season long.
All the lineup stuff always work themselves out for better or worse. It's just trying to prepare yourself to deal with that, which is what the Pens have done better than any organization in the NHL the past 2 seasons.
Getting into the nitty gritty of it honestly isn't worth it even though it can be fun to debate. Did anyone have Jake Guentzel being a key performer in 2017 12 months ago?
All the lineup stuff always work themselves out for better or worse. It's just trying to prepare yourself to deal with that, which is what the Pens have done better than any organization in the NHL the past 2 seasons.
Getting into the nitty gritty of it honestly isn't worth it even though it can be fun to debate. Did anyone have Jake Guentzel being a key performer in 2017 12 months ago?
- Status
