News Article: Friedman: In talking to some of the Sabres, they see the cycle of losing affecting the younger guys

[Jame]

Our current gm learned at a place that didn’t have to learn how to win. They were champions before he arrived.

This can't be overstated enough....

"Manage the cap, and keep the kids in Wilkes-Barre as long as possible"

"Okie Dokie guys!"

 

[Chainshot]

If we're talking about Vanek, should we not also talk about his gambling? At least with Pouliot, there wasn't an overt off ice concern to avoid him last summer. On ice? Sure. The guy who the Oilers bought out is certainly who the Sabres got... and worse.

 

[sabrebuild]

If we're talking about Vanek, should we not also talk about his gambling? At least with Pouliot, there wasn't an overt off ice concern to avoid him last summer. On ice? Sure. The guy who the Oilers bought out is certainly who the Sabres got... and worse.

Gambling addiction sounds like extra motivation to me!!!

 

[brian_griffin]

If we're talking about Vanek, should we not also talk about his gambling? At least with Pouliot, there wasn't an overt off ice concern to avoid him last summer. On ice? Sure. The guy who the Oilers bought out is certainly who the Sabres got... and worse.

Which was reason 1B I didn't want him in the offseason.
Reason 1A was his slowing speed and comparative lack of defense. Although one might argue he would have been no less consistent than Pouliot.

 

[flashsabre]

Our current gm learned at a place that didn’t have to learn how to win. They were champions before he arrived.

I would agree that this team could have performed better. But then again I think that is more on coaching and depth. If anything Eichel, ror and Reinhart player well or showed improvement throughout the year. Hardly signs of broken losers.

Risto was really bad to start the season, possibly playing with an injury, took time off and then looked like himself for the rest of the year.

I mean realistically consider what’s more likely. A team with a rookie coach whose only pro experience is with a loaded team and a rookie gm whose only experience was with the best team over the last decade, maybe were not ready to put the team in the best position. Or that having a few losing seasons has diminished the core players ability...

What are you on about? Botterill joined the Penguins in 2007. They won the Cup in 2009, 2016, 2017. He was apart of that organization as they learned how to win with that group of players.

 

[sabrebuild]

What are you on about? Botterill joined the Penguins in 2007. They won the Cup in 2009, 2016, 2017. He was apart of that organization as they learned how to win with that group of players.

I don’t think you get it. The season before he joined their team they were a 100 plus point team, his first year with the team they were a 100 plus point team cup finalist, year two cup winners.

That team was fully made and winning before he got there. That team had the bad decade and was already borderline contenders before he showed up.

That team had two hall of famers enter the league as babies and both be significantly more productive in the league than Eichel has at the same point of his career. They had Lemieux cache and elite secondary players before botterill got there in staal and letang and gonchar.

Now if you want to say he saw what maintaining winning, no arguments here, but the point of my post that you commented on is that he has not been a part of a team that learned to win. He saw a team that was already in the playoffs, lose in the finals by a wise vet team and then win the next year against the same team by a tiny margin. Imo that is not learning to win, its aging and a few lucky bounces.

It’s like giving credit to a young assistant gm who got hired by the Avalanche in 1994. Did that person learn to win and grow or watch hall of famers turn 25?

I’m suggesting that is less indicative of future success with developing a team like the Sabres. I would be more impressed if he had been with Columbus for the last 6 years. Now that’s going thru the growing pains and learning how to win. Which I view as pretty cliched anywho.

 

[flashsabre]

I don’t think you get it. The season before he joined their team they were a 100 plus point team, his first year with the team they were a 100 plus point team cup finalist, year two cup winners.

That team was fully made and winning before he got there. That team had the bad decade and was already borderline contenders before he showed up.

That team had two hall of famers enter the league as babies and both be significantly more productive in the league than Eichel has at the same point of his career. They had Lemieux cache and elite secondary players before botterill got there in staal and letang and gonchar.

Now if you want to say he saw what maintaining winning, no arguments here, but the point of my post that you commented on is that he has not been a part of a team that learned to win. He saw a team that was already in the playoffs, lose in the finals by a wise vet team and then win the next year against the same team by a tiny margin. Imo that is not learning to win, its aging and a few lucky bounces.

It’s like giving credit to a young assistant gm who got hired by the Avalanche in 1994. Did that person learn to win and grow or watch hall of famers turn 25?

I’m suggesting that is less indicative of future success with developing a team like the Sabres. I would be more impressed if he had been with Columbus for the last 6 years. Now that’s going thru the growing pains and learning how to win. Which I view as pretty cliched anywho.

I think this is picking and choosing a little bit. His main focus was building their AHL team into a powerhouse which he did. And Pittsburgh weren't the best team in the league every year from 2009 to 2016. There were ups and downs which he helped work through. If you look at most teams that are at the bottom by the time they get to the top there are different people running the team by that point.

I think most AGMs go through growing pains when they first take the GM chair. Jim Nill was thought to be a genius in Detroit but has had his ups and downs inDallas as the guy. I'm not saying Botts is perfect, Beauleau, Pouliot, Nolan are blemishes already but I think he needs some more time as this was a brutal situation he walked into. This offseason will be a big one to see where Bitts wants to head and what he is capable of doing to improve this team.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think this is picking and choosing a little bit. His main focus was building their AHL team into a powerhouse which he did. And Pittsburgh weren't the best team in the league every year from 2009 to 2016. There were ups and downs which he helped work through. If you look at most teams that are at the bottom by the time they get to the top there are different people running the team by that point.

I think most AGMs go through growing pains when they first take the GM chair. Jim Nill was thought to be a genius in Detroit but has had his ups and downs inDallas as the guy. I'm not saying Botts is perfect, Beauleau, Pouliot, Nolan are blemishes already but I think he needs some more time as this was a brutal situation he walked into. This offseason will be a big one to see where Bitts wants to head and what he is capable of doing to improve this team.

Again, I’m not saying he is bound to fail. I don’t think that he has been horrible. But the post you originally posted was about the pens being the best team of the last decade. That doesn’t mean they won the cup or presidents trophy every year. It means they consistently were one of the best teams more than any other team in the league. I think that is quite fair.

His duties that you are referring to is my point, he was not in charge of or a participant in the franchise learning to win.

He was in charge of cap stuff and keeping the ahl team strong to provide a player or two to fill depth roles as the playoffs arrived.

He really wasn’t even deeply involved in scouting, in a recent interview he noted the draft was often not a big deal for the pens because they often had traded their 1st or 2nd before the draft.

Again, he very well could improve, one would almost have to expect that. He just doesn’t have much experience in this situation.

 

[flashsabre]

Again, I’m not saying he is bound to fail. I don’t think that he has been horrible. But the post you originally posted was about the pens being the best team of the last decade. That doesn’t mean they won the cup or presidents trophy every year. It means they consistently were one of the best teams more than any other team in the league. I think that is quite fair.

His duties that you are referring to is my point, he was not in charge of or a participant in the franchise learning to win.

He was in charge of cap stuff and keeping the ahl team strong to provide a player or two to fill depth roles as the playoffs arrived.

He really wasn’t even deeply involved in scouting, in a recent interview he noted the draft was often not a big deal for the pens because they often had traded their 1st or 2nd before the draft.

Again, he very well could improve, one would almost have to expect that. He just doesn’t have much experience in this situation.

Fair enough. Don't forget that he started as a scout for Dallas so he does have experience there. The early returns on his first draft are looking very promising. That was a unique situation though as he came in when most of the work was done and a lot of those scouts are gone. This year's draft and how he maneuvers to move out the dead weight and improve this offseason will be very telling for him.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

I was definitely one of the many anti signing/ zero interest in any of the Vanek talk last summer. I thought he was super close to being toast and didn't need Molson's doppelganger out there raping production from the other bottom 6 line. But, looks like I ate crow on that take b/c he was pretty Damn solid actually. Consistently played solid hockey and scored a bunch of goals that we definitely could have used. FML, so depressing that the majority of worthless mentally challenged scatbags JB brought in were epic disasters. F me it's depressing.

 

[sabrebuild]

Fair enough. Don't forget that he started as a scout for Dallas so he does have experience there. The early returns on his first draft are looking very promising. That was a unique situation though as he came in when most of the work was done and a lot of those scouts are gone. This year's draft and how he maneuvers to move out the dead weight and improve this offseason will be very telling for him.

Yup, Jame made a similar comment earlier, but I think whether Botts should stick or not should be able to be determined by December of this year.

Not requiring the team to have great results, but I need to see a plan being developed, because this season was totally aimless from gm to coaching.

Ironically winning the lottery is what this franchise needs the most, but that happening could make the evaluation of Botts difficult for many.

Oh I want Dahlin bad.

 

[Team Cozens]

Culture does matter Imo, the better your environment is, the better you will feel & perform...that being said, what does "opponents see Eichel's frustration and take advantage of it" even supposed to mean? lol some of the things these media members write for views. I'd understand if Eichel was constantly getting checked/slashed/hooked every shift and was severely underperforming because of it, but that's just not the case (although he does take a lot of non called penalties).

I think Botts should sign at least 2-3 guys who have made it to the Conference Finals and beyond. Start with Justin Williams. And get Adam Lowry too!! He would be awesome on our 4th line

I’d still love to add Lowry to the Sabres. Wonder if Winnipeg would be interested in dumping that $3 million cap. Not sure what a fair offer or value would be. Guhle? Could he be a short term 2/3C.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Lowry definitely would be a 3rd or 4th line C not a 2/3. Would be a solid add in the bottom 6 but I am not trading Guhle for a bottom 6 player making 2.91 mil aav. Guhle is going to be a long term fixture for us on the blueline, while I believe he is the best trade chip we have he would only be traded as a centerpiece for a much bigger impact type player. And with Larsson playing as well as he has do we really want to move Guhle for a rich mans Larsson?

 

[Gabrielor]

Weird bump. I was wondering why the hell an article like this would come out now. Turns out it's from August.

 

[Montag DP]

Weird bump. I was wondering why the hell an article like this would come out now. Turns out it's from August.

April, actually.

 

[Dingo44]

I figured someone was going to laugh at all the hot takes in this thread back then.

 

[Djp]

I wish threads will6 months of inactivity would automatically close.

 

[Cirris]

I figured someone was going to laugh at all the hot takes in this thread back then.

Thankfully, I avoided this thread like the plague.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

People point to intangibles and declare they can measure their impact. That’s not how intangibles work.

 

[Doohickie]

I wish threads will6 months of inactivity would automatically close.

I wish people wouldn't try to make up their own policies.

 

[pigpen65]

I wish threads will6 months of inactivity would automatically close.

Old theads with 6 months of inactivity should be automatically bumped.

 

[DJN21]

Lowry definitely would be a 3rd or 4th line C not a 2/3. Would be a solid add in the bottom 6 but I am not trading Guhle for a bottom 6 player making 2.91 mil aav. Guhle is going to be a long term fixture for us on the blueline, while I believe he is the best trade chip we have he would only be traded as a centerpiece for a much bigger impact type player. And with Larsson playing as well as he has do we really want to move Guhle for a rich mans Larsson?

I'd add to Guhle to get Lowry, you're nuts. Lowry is literally the best bottom 6 center in the league.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Old theads with 6 months of inactivity should be automatically bumped.

Right. We need another ROR debate thread.

 

[Dreakon13]

Old theads with 6 months of inactivity should be automatically bumped.

The forum software should mathematically calculate the hottest take in the thread, then post a bumping reply using a random users account with said take, in old threads after 6 months of inactivity.

 

[Ace]

Right. We need another ROR debate thread.

John vogl just wrote one for the athletic today. Uses phrases like grumpy face that get people warnings round here.