News Article: Friedman: In talking to some of the Sabres, they see the cycle of losing affecting the younger guys

Dreakon13

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Jun 28, 2010
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There's no use in me arguing it again at this point. It's obvious people have 100% made up their minds about Botts, Housley and this management group. As ridiculous as I think that is after their first season inheriting one of the worst teams in the league.

This offseason is Botts real test IMO. If it's a dud, I'll probably be joining you.
 

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
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There's no use in me arguing it again at this point. It's obvious people have 100% made up their minds about Botts, Housley and this management group. As ridiculous as I think that is after their first season inheriting one of the worst teams in the league.

This offseason is Botts real test IMO. If it's a dud, I'll probably be joining you.
It's more about who may be available. Firing Housely for another 1st time coach makes little sense. Firing him for a coach with multiple successful teams on his resume is different.
 

Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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C'mon, don't get all hyperbolic. Scandella and Wilson elevate Botts above "absolutely pathetic". Several years of Scandella is a FAR bigger asset, than a couple low-risk Josefson/Pouliot/Nolan/Beaulieu pickups are problems. You only have so many options when your replacing half your team in one offseason (your first offseason as an NHL GM no less).


EDIT: I think some folks had way too much of an attachment to this season. From Day 0 last offseason, after Murray and Bylsma were canned, expectations should've been tempered knowing a) this would be an evaluation year for the new management regardless of who they hired and b) there'd be growing pains on top of the fact this wasn't a very good team last year either.

Yet people act like we were one or two cunning moves away from contending or something, and dumb dumb Botts ruined everything and we hate him now. :rolleyes:

Not really... and f*** Wilson. The fact that he's viewed as a positive acquisition just goes to show how bad Botts roster management. Wilson is a #12-13 forward, playing regularly in our top 6.

And it's not about asset value... it's about constructing a roster that can play NHL hockey while the core develops.

There is nothing dumber than having an "evaluation year" where you play your most important players with Adam Mairs and Eric Boultons for an entire season.

You almost have to actively try to be this dumb:

"Hey let's evaluate Sam Reinhart at center... i've got Seth Griffith on a 2 way contract, and I claimed Nolan off waivers.... that should give him some speed and power to work with".... :rolleyes:
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
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There's no use in me arguing it again at this point. It's obvious people have 100% made up their minds about Botts, Housley and this management group. As ridiculous as I think that is after their first season inheriting one of the worst teams in the league.

This offseason is Botts real test IMO. If it's a dud, I'll probably be joining you.
There is literally no reason to add Jordan Nolan to your hockey team.
 

Dreakon13

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Jun 28, 2010
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Not really... and **** Wilson. The fact that he's viewed as a positive acquisition just goes to show how bad Botts roster management. Wilson is a #12-13 forward, playing regularly in our top 6.

And it's not about asset value... it's about constructing a roster that can play NHL hockey while the core develops.

There is nothing dumber than having an "evaluation year" where you play your most important players with Adam Mairs and Eric Boultons for an entire season.

You almost have to actively try to be this dumb:

"Hey let's evaluate Sam Reinhart at center... i've got Seth Griffith on a 2 way contract, and I claimed Nolan off waivers.... that should give him some speed and power to work with".... :rolleyes:
And the Sam Reinhart center experiment ended shortly after we realized we don't have the winger depth to support more than one scoring line. I suppose your answer is "hey, go get lots and lots of quality NHL winger depth without draining Rochester, easy right?" but not everyone can be so cunning. :rolleyes:

There is literally no reason to add Jordan Nolan to your hockey team.
Heck of a hill to die on.
 
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Dreakon13

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Our 4th line winger spot just seems like an unnecessary thing to be so upset about. Nolan was a bad pickup, we get it. Supposedly a good locker room guy, fights, has a few cups. I don't think it was such a ridiculous idea. But if he signs him past this year, I'll be right there with you.
 
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Jame

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Sep 4, 2002
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And the Sam Reinhart center experiment ended shortly after we realized we don't have the winger depth to support more than one scoring line. I suppose your answer is "hey, go get lots and lots of winger depth without touching Rochester, easy right?" but not everyone can be so cunning. :rolleyes:

AFTER? After they realized? They had to see it first... that's the problem. They had to see the shit show... they didn't know that their plan was idiotic.

We signed Seth Griffith, Kevin Porter and Kyle Criscuolo on day 1 of free agency... that was our focus.
 

Dreakon13

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Jun 28, 2010
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AFTER? After they realized? They had to see it first... that's the problem. They had to see the **** show... they didn't know that their plan was idiotic.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they don't try Sam at center, even lacking the depth to support it, they're crucified for "not evaluating enough" in an evaluation year. They try Sam at center, and now they're so outstandingly stupid for not realizing it was a stupid idea before they stupidly tried it.

I'll just leave it at what I said before...

"There's no use in me arguing it again at this point. It's obvious people have 100% made up their minds about Botts, Housley and this management group. As ridiculous as I think that is after their first season inheriting one of the worst teams in the league.

This offseason is Botts real test IMO. If it's a dud, I'll probably be joining you."

We signed Seth Griffith, Kevin Porter and Kyle Criscuolo on day 1 of free agency... that was our focus.
Were you hoping for another big Okposo signing? :rolleyes:
 

struckbyaparkedcar

Guilty of Being Right
Mar 1, 2008
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Upstate NY
Our 4th line winger spot just seems like an unnecessary thing to be so upset about. Nolan was a bad pickup, we get it. Supposedly a good locker room guy, fights, has a few cups. I don't think it was such a ridiculous idea.

But if he signs him past this year, I'll be right there with you.
When literally everyone in the lineup is playing tougher minutes than their peers because Jordan Nolan has no ES or special teams value, it’s a huge f***ing problem that a competent GM doesn’t entertain for one second.
 

Steddy33

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Jan 7, 2012
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Our 4th line winger spot just seems like an unnecessary thing to be so upset about. Nolan was a bad pickup, we get it. Supposedly a good locker room guy, fights, has a few cups. I don't think it was such a ridiculous idea. But if he signs him past this year, I'll be right there with you.
Which doesn't explain why just that wasn't done during the season. Watching Nolan in the line up night after night when other, better options were on waivers is not confidence inspiring. I'm rooting for Botterill. But this summer is make or break for him as far as I'm concerned. His work up till this point is questionable at best.
 

Icicle

Think big
Oct 16, 2005
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Yeah, he picked up one or two guys. Nothing groundbreaking exactly. Wilson was to replace a waived Moulson (which was moreso to send a message than anything) and not touch Rochester. Nolan was his answer to moving on from Deslauriers and came before the season actually started.

I'm not sure how many more worthwhile "combinations" there are to try, other than ROR and Eichel to wing. Phil stuck with certain things, a little excessively at times, but who knows what conversations were going on behind the scenes that led to those decisions. There was no magic combination that was going to save this season, things were too jacked up out of the gate.

At any rate, whether it needed to take the full season or not, we know what we have in these guys now. I stand by the thought that this offseason is Botts real test.

The NHL roster had TEN new players on it.

Botterill signed half of those to prevent 'gifting' minutes to AHL guys who took 3/4 of a season for maybe two of them to earn it.

Murray was setup to not even sign those guys that Botterill did and teach all the youth how to lose.
 

Dreakon13

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Jun 28, 2010
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The NHL roster had TEN new players on it.

Botterill signed half of those to prevent 'gifting' minutes to AHL guys who took 3/4 of a season for maybe two of them to earn it.

Murray was setup to not even sign those guys that Botterill did and teach all the youth how to lose.
Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. When I said he picked up one or two guys, I meant mid-season. As that's what the post I quoted was referring to.
 

Jame

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Were you hoping for another big Okposo signing? :rolleyes:

No. I was hoping for some competent signings.

Overpay Justin Williams for 2 years.
Sign Daniel Winnik when his best offer was a PTO from Minnesota
Jussi Jokinen was available for peanuts... at least try bringing in some skill (last time I checked he was churning out nearly point per game in Vancouver after flopping around the league)

Thomas Vanek got a 1 year 2 million deal... why the f*** didn't we offer 4 million? f*** we spent 2 million of Pouliot and Josefson.
 

Steddy33

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Jan 7, 2012
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No. I was hoping for some competent signings.

Overpay Justin Williams for 2 years.
Sign Daniel Winnik when his best offer was a PTO from Minnesota
Jussi Jokinen was available for peanuts... at least try bringing in some skill (last time I checked he was churning out nearly point per game in Vancouver after flopping around the league)

Thomas Vanek got a 1 year 2 million deal... why the **** didn't we offer 4 million? **** we spent 2 million of Pouliot and Josefson.
As much as I'm not a Vanek fan this was so easy for Botterill. All Vanek does score goals year after year. This team desperately needs finishing wingers. Vanek isn't a perfect fit but he is a short term plug. And a better option than Pouliot.

Winnik would have also been an easy cheap signing.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
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As much as I'm not a Vanek fan this was so easy for Botterill. All Vanek does score goals year after year. This team desperately needs finishing wingers. Vanek isn't a perfect fit but he is a short term plug. And a better option than Pouliot.

Winnik would have also been an easy cheap signing.

There were plenty of incrementally better moves Botterill could've made in the offseason and during the season... he failed. He wasted a season... "evaluating" a team he shot in the foot on day 1.
 
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Kyndig

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Jan 3, 2012
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As much as I'm not a Vanek fan this was so easy for Botterill. All Vanek does score goals year after year. This team desperately needs finishing wingers. Vanek isn't a perfect fit but he is a short term plug. And a better option than Pouliot.

Winnik would have also been an easy cheap signing.

I said it at the beginning of the year but nooooo everyone wanted Pouliot instead.
 

Icicle

Think big
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Vanek would get healthy scratched during playoff games. Vancouver did nothing with him this year. What a silly thing to think about.
 

Steddy33

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Jan 7, 2012
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There were plenty of incrementally better moves Botterill could've made in the offseason and during the season... he failed. He wasted a season... "evaluating" a team he shot in the foot on day 1.
No argument from me. I completely agree.
 

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