News Article: Friedman: In talking to some of the Sabres, they see the cycle of losing affecting the younger guys

[UnleashRasmus]

No. I was hoping for some competent signings.

Overpay Justin Williams for 2 years.
Sign Daniel Winnik when his best offer was a PTO from Minnesota
Jussi Jokinen was available for peanuts... at least try bringing in some skill (last time I checked he was churning out nearly point per game in Vancouver after flopping around the league)

Thomas Vanek got a 1 year 2 million deal... why the **** didn't we offer 4 million? **** we spent 2 million of Pouliot and Josefson.

All of this is completely true. Perhaps they did offer something to Williams and he took less for a better fit? The other's I cannot argue with you on one bit.

 

[Jame]

Vanek would get healthy scratched during playoff games. Vancouver did nothing with him this year. What a silly thing to think about.

Some guys are only good in offensive roles... Vanek's #s were very good with Sedins. He had a great mid season stretch with Boeser... and now he's tearing it up with Wennberg/Jenner in a 2nd line scoring role.

Hmmmm where could we have fit an offensive scorer... on the LW? We never had the depth to give Reinhart run at center. We never had the depth to give Jack and Reinhart a good linemate.

Vanek's not the answer to anything other than making this "evaluation" year useful.

 

[Jame]

Pouliot wasn’t the problem. Signing one dude in the Pouliot class was.

Signing Pouliot to play in the top 6 was the problem. I agree.

If Pouliot is on your 4th line, and shifting up the lineup due to injuries... we're fine with that.

 

[Icicle]

Some guys are only good in offensive roles... Vanek's #s were very good with Sedins. He had a great mid season stretch with Boeser... and now he's tearing it up with Wennberg/Jenner in a 2nd line scoring role.

Hmmmm where could we have fit an offensive scorer... on the LW? We never had the depth to give Reinhart run at center. We never had the depth to give Jack and Reinhart a good linemate.

Vanek's not the answer to anything other than making this "evaluation" year useful.

But if you're signing a guy you want to be a placeholder for a rookie to steal and that player is top-6 or bust- your only option is to bury him in the minors (ala Moulson)

Pouliot, as terribly inconsistent as he may be, played PK minutes and was just as good/awful in whatever line he got slotted into.


Coming to the conclusion that signing another Top-6 or bust veteran would've been better than a guy who spent the majority of the season not in the top-6 is silly. We already suffered through enough time with top-6 or bust Griffith taking up a roster spot and not even getting played.

 

[Jame]

But if you're signing a guy you want to be a placeholder for a rookie to steal and that player is top-6 or bust- your only option is to bury him in the minors (ala Moulson)

What?

I'm signing a guy who can play NHL top 6 hockey and score goals... and give us a 2nd PP unit. A guy who plays LW.... and gives far more options in structuring our offense (paired with Reinhart at center. paired with Eichel - Kane with Reinhart, etc)

Pouliot, as terribly inconsistent as he may be, played PK minutes and was just as good/awful in whatever line he got slotted into.

Pouliot's awfulness is masked if he's playing on a 4th line with actual NHL 4th liners (Say... Winnik and JT Brown).

Coming to the conclusion that signing another Top-6 or bust veteran would've been better than a guy who spent the majority of the season not in the top-6 is silly. We already suffered through enough time with top-6 or bust Griffith taking up a roster spot and not even getting played.

False. He spent the majority of the season in the top 6

841 ES minutes
334 with ROR
102 with Eichel

That's 52% in the top 6

Thanks for playing

"Top 6 or bust Seth Griffith" - You're killing me

 

[Steddy33]

But if you're signing a guy you want to be a placeholder for a rookie to steal and that player is top-6 or bust- your only option is to bury him in the minors (ala Moulson)

Pouliot, as terribly inconsistent as he may be, played PK minutes and was just as good/awful in whatever line he got slotted into.


Coming to the conclusion that signing another Top-6 or bust veteran would've been better than a guy who spent the majority of the season not in the top-6 is silly. We already suffered through enough time with top-6 or bust Griffith taking up a roster spot and not even getting played.

You just compared Seth Griffith to Thomas Vanek. Hahaha great argument.

 

[Fezzy126]

I think you're reading into it too much, personally.

I agree, our 13th forward has such little bearing on the outcome of this team's fortune.

I'll add that there's so much recency bias on this board it's ridiculous... Literally, not one person had a problem with this signing at the time:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jordan-nolan-claimed-off-waivers.2392027/

I'll give @Chainshot credit here though, as it only took him 48 hours and apparently one viewing in this thread to go from:
"Inexpensive way to try to improve the roster. No issues."
to
"It's relatively no risk and relatively safe. If he works out, great."
to
"Well he seems to have replaced Des immediately."

Well done! You win the prize for recognizing his uselessness the fastest

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I agree, our 13th forward has such little bearing on the outcome of this team's fortune.

Too bad Nolan wasn’t the 13th forward.

 

[Dreakon13]

Too bad Nolan wasn’t the 13th forward.

The 12th forward probably shouldn't cause this type of vitriol either... honestly.

But the thoughts and the venting and the losing and the frustration has been swirling around in our heads so long that it's built and built and built until the guy playing playing less than 10 minutes most nights is suddenly everything that's wrong with the organization in a nutshell.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Pouliot was a TERRIBLE signing for a team with culture/commitment issues, a veteran who shows up with a good effort 2 games out of 10 is the last thing this bunch needed.

I wanted Vanek, very few on here agreed with me last off-season.

 

[Dreakon13]

Pouliot was a TERRIBLE signing for a team with culture/commitment issues, a veteran who shows up with a good effort 2 games out of 10 is the last thing this bunch needed.

I wanted Vanek, very few on here agreed with me last off-season.

Wasn't that exactly the problem we had with Vanek in his last few years here?

More consistent (and talented) than Pouliot but still streaky.

 

[valet]

There were plenty of incrementally better moves Botterill could've made in the offseason and during the season... he failed. He wasted a season... "evaluating" a team he shot in the foot on day 1.

which is my theory that it was a secret tank year is the only one that holds water, considering the top 5 talent in this draft and botts' reputation around the league

can't you see?

It's all for you... Dahlien

 

[sabremike]

There really is no narrative in all of sports that I hate more than "Player X is a loser". Ernie Banks never played a postseason game, Barry Sanders was only part of a single playoff victory, are those guys "losers"?

 

[AustonsNostrils]

AFTER? After they realized? They had to see it first... that's the problem. They had to see the **** show... they didn't know that their plan was idiotic.

We signed Seth Griffith, Kevin Porter and Kyle Criscuolo on day 1 of free agency... that was our focus.

They were signed for Rochester, and the job Botterill did repairing that broken franchise is important, it may begin paying big dividends as soon as next year with the Sabres. There is no doubt this was an evaluation year for Botterill, recalling AHL lifers like Griffith and Criscuolo(he will be an AHL lifer) was his demonstration to the kids in Rochester that you earn your callups by playing well in the AHL.

I just don't think he imagined the team he inherited and assembled in Buffalo could be as bad as it turned out to be. A misjudgement.

 

[GellMann]

The 12th forward probably shouldn't cause this type of vitriol either... honestly.

But the thoughts and the venting and the losing and the frustration has been swirling around in our heads so long that it's built and built and built until the guy playing playing less than 10 minutes most nights is suddenly everything that's wrong with the organization in a nutshell.

I dunno man, the 'literally', the swear words, and the tone that suggests there was an obvious right answer and that our GM has done the exact opposite on every facet to running a hockey team is quite convincing

 

[OkimLom]

I agree, our 13th forward has such little bearing on the outcome of this team's fortune.

I'll add that there's so much recency bias on this board it's ridiculous... Literally, not one person had a problem with this signing at the time:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jordan-nolan-claimed-off-waivers.2392027/

I'll give @Chainshot credit here though, as it only took him 48 hours and apparently one viewing in this thread to go from:
"Inexpensive way to try to improve the roster. No issues."
to
"It's relatively no risk and relatively safe. If he works out, great."
to
"Well he seems to have replaced Des immediately."

Well done! You win the prize for recognizing his uselessness the fastest

It was fairly quick to find someone that didn't like it

Some statements meant as negative:

"Well, I'm glad they are concerned about how soft the lineup was..."

"I guess I'll just hope he's got an emotional investment to play hard in Buffalo. Otherwise this is a fairly uninteresting signing to me."

 

[sincerity0]

Yes, those of us who are objective are...



And he did an absolutely pathetic job at the later.



I'm more upset that he barely tried. Especially beyond the offseaosn.



You basically just credited Murray with all the good news.

Murray comes in and makes a bunch of brash decisions costing this team years of player development - Kane, Lehner, Fasching trades netted out a ton of assets for this team to build around. Buffalo has a black hole of defensive prospects after years of neglect.

The same people who wanted Botterill to some how acquire a plethora of prospects to build depth and garner quality NHLers without long term commitment are the same ones who bitch about Kyle Okposo every game.

Sure, if we want to say Murray is the bearer of good news because he drafted Eichel/Reinhart at #2 back to back years, then great. We have legitimately talented players and prospects because the Sabres have picked 8,2,2,8, and 8 the last five drafts. It’s not that hard to pick players at the top of the draft.

For the life of me I don’t understand what exactly Botterill was supposed to do mid season to fix this roster. He made 3 moves (Scandella, Antipin, BEaulieu) to try and change the defense. Murray obviously deserves credit for Antipin and there were rumors Murray spoke to Minn about Scandella. He gave up Ennis, Foligno, and a third to bring in Scandella, Antipin and Beaulieu.

I get that Beaulieu has been utter trash - but there was an attempt made to revive a career of a formerly first round pick. A move that was extremely cheap, btw.

Traded a 5th for Wilson.

Signings like Pouliot and Josefson, and claiming Nolan are moves made to allow prospects to develop.

What if he comes in and trades Reinhart before the season, our new defenseman looks okay on a horrible team and Sam goes out to score 30/30+? We sit here and bitch that we are further in the hole.

Now that there has been evaluation time - Beaulieu didn’t work out, Lehner isn’t working out, there is some cap coming off the books (Gorges); and Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt and Guhle are all developing nicely. Now is the time for Botterill to make a move.

There has yet to be a logical reason to completely diss Botterill. There were moves made. Him not being more active mid season on waiver pickups / trades is so silly. Players are waived because they are not good. In season trades (especially player for player moves) are pretty rare.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I dunno man, the 'literally', the swear words, and the tone that suggests there was an obvious right answer and that our GM has done the exact opposite on every facet to running a hockey team is quite convincing

We can’t all keep insisting that dressing consensus-terrible players didn’t actually matter.

 

[Jame]

They were signed for Rochester, and the job Botterill did repairing that broken franchise is important, it may begin paying big dividends as soon as next year with the Sabres. There is no doubt this was an evaluation year for Botterill, recalling AHL lifers like Griffith and Criscuolo(he will be an AHL lifer) was his demonstration to the kids in Rochester that you earn your callups by playing well in the AHL.

I just don't think he imagined the team he inherited and assembled in Buffalo could be as bad as it turned out to be. A misjudgement.

i agree. What Botterill did for Rochester was what was needed. Too bad he couldnt walk and chew gum at the same time, and thus flushed an NHL season down the toilet.

 

[Jame]

There has yet to be a logical reason to completely diss Botterill.

Other than the fact that he made the NHL franchise objectively worse

 

[brian_griffin]

Other than the fact that he made the NHL franchise objectively worse

@Jame - you going to game tonight?

 

[Jame]

The 12th forward probably shouldn't cause this type of vitriol either... honestly.

Which 12th forward? Nolan? Pouliot? Larsson? Girgensons? Wilson? Pominville? Moulson? Griffith? Josefson?

Get it?

 

[Jame]

@Jame - you going to game tonight?

Nah... i went a few weeks ago because I had killer seats (center ice, 10 rows up) that I got before the season. I just bought playoff tickets for round 1 instead.

 

[Chainshot]

I agree, our 13th forward has such little bearing on the outcome of this team's fortune.

I'll add that there's so much recency bias on this board it's ridiculous... Literally, not one person had a problem with this signing at the time:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/jordan-nolan-claimed-off-waivers.2392027/

I'll give @Chainshot credit here though, as it only took him 48 hours and apparently one viewing in this thread to go from:
"Inexpensive way to try to improve the roster. No issues."
to
"It's relatively no risk and relatively safe. If he works out, great."
to
"Well he seems to have replaced Des immediately."

Well done! You win the prize for recognizing his uselessness the fastest

Thinslicing for the win! I used to like the guy when he was younger on the Kings -- Clifford too -- and seeing him live, it confirmed what Kings fans were saying about him. The dude is spent.

Another caveat - I was expecting more shuffle attempts, more panning for gold in the castings of other teams as the season progressed after this initial experiment. Ah well.

 

[sabrebuild]

Our current GM said winning and losing is learned. We're at a point where talent isn't the main problem. This team shouldn't have 62 points. Maybe 80, but 62 shows something else is wrong. I think they have underachieved the last two years.

Our current gm learned at a place that didn’t have to learn how to win. They were champions before he arrived.

I would agree that this team could have performed better. But then again I think that is more on coaching and depth. If anything Eichel, ror and Reinhart player well or showed improvement throughout the year. Hardly signs of broken losers.

Risto was really bad to start the season, possibly playing with an injury, took time off and then looked like himself for the rest of the year.

I mean realistically consider what’s more likely. A team with a rookie coach whose only pro experience is with a loaded team and a rookie gm whose only experience was with the best team over the last decade, maybe were not ready to put the team in the best position. Or that having a few losing seasons has diminished the core players ability...