News Article: Friedman: In talking to some of the Sabres, they see the cycle of losing affecting the younger guys

[Sabre Dance]

Yikes

It's not Eichel's fault either. He's in a tough position.

 

[pigpen65]

We've had 2 coaches since Eichel that let the inmates run the asylum. There was/is zero respected veteran leadership so players did their own thing on and off the ice. Tim Murray recognized this and tried to fix it by punishing Reinhart and Eichel like children.

Hire a coach that has a history of structure and discipline before trading O'Reilly and possibly Reinhart.

If you really believe what you are saying your main beef should be with the GM overstepping the role of the coach. Not to mention, Nolan has all the qualities in a coach you are describing. Murray fired him and replaced him with somebody he was able to overstep.

 

[Jame]

The GM shouldn't have to discipline the players IF his head coach is doing his job and his tasks. Once again, Murray's biggest mistake is hiring Bylsma. Nothing else is even close. The coach didn't respect the organization enough to care to help the young guys more than he was willing, and the young guys didn't respect the coach.

This teams needs a serious influx of talent(not necessarily of TOP end talent, though that would be nice, but more of the JP Dumont variety) and it's looking like they may need to continue to search for a head coach if Housley doesn't improve himself.

I agree.

I think the problems need to be addressed in tiers.

The first step to solving the problems... is depth of talent. I don't believe restructuring the core through trades will solve anything, unless we build depth of talent. HALF the damn roster did not belong in the NHL to start the year.

More JP Dumonts and Jochen Hechts... you're absolutely right. Quality wingers who can play throughout you top 9.
More Paul Gaustads and Adam Mairs... good, solid 4th liners. Not tweeners. Not AHLers. Good god damn NHLers.

Step 1: Fix depth.

We don't know what we truly have with the top tier core (Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Risto)... until we put a respectable team around them.


Step 2: Evaluate Botts

With focus on fixing the NHL roster, we can better assess Botts. He did an absolutely terrible job this year. And even if it can be justified under the disguise of evaluating the roster / tanking... it still hurt the franchise (another putrid season for Eichel and core).

If Botts shows he can build a roster around talent, I will have some confidence in him going forward. If he simply starts re-cycling the top of the roster (ROR for X), and expects another round of Pouliots and Beaulieu's to build the depth... then he is worse than Murray.

If Botts fails in Step 1, the evaluation in Step 2 is easy... Botts has to go.

Step 3: Evaluate Housley

With a competent NHL roster top to bottom, we can then fully evaluate Housley. He's been terrible this year, but I am tempted to give him some form of a pass. Even though his usage is infuriating, I'm willing to see how he handles a good roster.

If Botts executes Step 1, and thus passes Step 2..... then Step 3 is on Housley.

Bottom line: Botts and Housley have been a disaster this year. They are rookies.... will they develop?

 

[Sabre Dance]

I think “anonymous player” quote is pretty meaningless.

Even if I stipulate that a player said that, I don’t think it means anything to say they are being beaten down if it’s not hurting them in any kind of way that would ruin them.

Therefore this story is the typical nonsense narrative that stems back to tanking being immoral and ruining the fabric of the team..

It’s the reason ppl post in response to that article in this thread, that Risto needs to go or a core player has to go because all they know is losing.

Same nonsense, different spoke of the wheel.

Our current GM said winning and losing is learned. We're at a point where talent isn't the main problem. This team shouldn't have 62 points. Maybe 80, but 62 shows something else is wrong. I think they have underachieved the last two years.

 

[DatGuy]

You are wrong about our roster. We are not a last place team. As for the two guys I picked. Doesn't matter if they don't play the same sport. Football and Hockey are similar when it comes to leadership. If you win people follow you.

I am not going to argue with you if you can't see that leadership, a locker room gelling and experience wins games not just skill.

We 100% are a last place team. Are forwards are not the worst but our defence and goaltending is.

 

[Sabre Dance]

We 100% are a last place team. Are forwards are not the worst but our defence and goaltending is.

The team continues to look disorganized.

 

[darcyRegier]

It's not Eichel's fault either. He's in a tough position.

Eichel definitely should shoulder some blame, but to say that he is a major problem is absolutely absurd. I mean, you have watched most of the games this season right?

Having Pouliot Pominville Larsson Nolan Beaulieu and Falk play big minutes this year is 100x bigger the problem than Eichel having a poor start to the year, where he "only" had 19 points in his first 26 games, only to play at over a ppg pace after that until he got hurt.

Remember the Carolina game where he single handily brought the team back from a 3 goal deficit with a hat trick in the third and we STILL lost? Yea, Eichel is a big problem

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I think the team saw how f'd they were after the start and pulled the chute. If they get a couple breaks the start of next season it could go the other way.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Eichel definitely should shoulder some blame, but to say that he is a major problem is absolutely absurd. I mean, you have watched most of the games this season right?

Having Pouliot Pominville Larsson Nolan Beaulieu and Falk play big minutes this year is 100x bigger the problem than Eichel having a poor start to the year, where he "only" had 19 points in his first 26 games, only to play at over a ppg pace after that until he got hurt.

Remember the Carolina game where he single handily brought the team back from a 3 goal deficit with a hat trick in the third and we STILL lost? Yea, Eichel is a big problem

The team has 62 points, you want to point out positives? For every positive there are 3 negatives.

 

[darcyRegier]

The team has 62 points, you want to point out positives? For every positive there are 3 negatives.

I'm just confused as to how someone would see Eichel as a major part of the problem with this team

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I'm just confused as to how someone would see Eichel as a major part of the problem with this team

Eichel isn’t a major problem, but our coaches’ inability to put him in positions to succeed very much is.

 

[OkimLom]

Chicago was well on their way to losing season #3 until they fired their idiot coach and brought in someone whose biggest strength is talent allocation.

4 games into the season was well on their way?

 

[Sabre Dance]

I'm just confused as to how someone would see Eichel as a major part of the problem with this team

Eichel is a great hockey player. I don't think he is a natural leader.

 

[sincerity0]

Are we still criticizing Botterill for not doing enough to the roster? Botterill made many changes to the roster including Scandella, Antipin, and Beaulieu to shape the backend; and tried to fill some depth with forwards.

GMJB had to balance building a winning team in Rochester (building bottom-up) and getting quality NHLers.

IMO I still think it’s baffling that some are angry that Botterill somehow did not transform a roster devoid of depth into one that has a ton of depth. Are we still really mad he didn’t make a franchise defining trade? Are we mad because he didn’t try and pick up more players off waivers?

Tim Murray made many aggressive moves with the bundle of assets he inherited. Most of those trades were not worth the price he paid. The good news is that Buffalo has many top end talented players, Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, and some high end prospects in Mittelstadt/Nylander/2018 Top-4 pick. Building depth takes time... we will get there.

 

[OkimLom]

I blame Pegula more than GMs for the coaching hires.

Right now this is Eichel and Housley's team. So IMO adding talent around Eichel and Housley won't fix the core problem. Eichel is a major part of the problem at this point. It's a hard reality. You can't bring in players to lead Eichel, he is the leader in the room and on the ice now. The only way to fix this is a coach that won't bow down to Eichel.

The problem is bigger than talent.

I blame Pegula for initial Bylsma hire. I blame Tim for keeping him long after what was very apparent; these players were not playing for the coach.

As for Eichel and the coach, you don't need to hire a guy that will not bow down to Eichel, you need to hire someone who can get on the same page as our future guys, and capable of adapting to his ever-changing roster.

 

[Djp]

This is true, this organization has to move out a core guy this offseason and help shift the culture. Next year, this organization needs. to at the very least be in the ko until April.

The idea of moving out a guy doesn't really work here. If buffalo had a heavy veteran team then doing that makes sense.

I think there is more value to bring a player who has one at least one cup and on a routine playoff team.

 

[LetsDoughBuffalo]

Are we still criticizing Botterill for not doing enough to the roster? Botterill made many changes to the roster including Scandella, Antipin, and Beaulieu to shape the backend; and tried to fill some depth with forwards.

GMJB had to balance building a winning team in Rochester (building bottom-up) and getting quality NHLers.

IMO I still think it’s baffling that some are angry that Botterill somehow did not transform a roster devoid of depth into one that has a ton of depth. Are we still really mad he didn’t make a franchise defining trade? Are we mad because he didn’t try and pick up more players off waivers?

Tim Murray made many aggressive moves with the bundle of assets he inherited. Most of those trades were not worth the price he paid. The good news is that Buffalo has many top end talented players, Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, and some high end prospects in Mittelstadt/Nylander/2018 Top-4 pick. Building depth takes time... we will get there.

I'm a Botterill backer for sure, and I think he's going to do better now that he's had a year to evaluate.

Nobody is saying that he didn't make any changes, however some of the changes he did make - really didn't work out. We can praise him for drafting Mittelstadt and trading for Scandella, but he has to be held responsible for the blunders too.

Beaulieu is obviously not very good, yet we gave up a 3rd and gave him a 2 year contract. I was excited about Beaulieu, but I don't watch the Habs nor do I have the responsibility of building a team on my plate. Botts judgement was incorrect on him.

Claiming Jordan Nolan but not claiming JT Miller. There's another questionable move.

I think Botts is going to have a nice & busy offseason, and I really like the guy. No he didn't inherit a good situation by any means, but some of his depth moves definitely have to be seen as mistakes.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

4 games into the season was well on their way?

Yes? They fired their coach.

That leadership group did not put their foot down about losing in their third season the way it was framed.

 

[OkimLom]

I agree.

I think the problems need to be addressed in tiers.

The first step to solving the problems... is depth of talent. I don't believe restructuring the core through trades will solve anything, unless we build depth of talent. HALF the damn roster did not belong in the NHL to start the year.

More JP Dumonts and Jochen Hechts... you're absolutely right. Quality wingers who can play throughout you top 9.
More Paul Gaustads and Adam Mairs... good, solid 4th liners. Not tweeners. Not AHLers. Good god damn NHLers.

Step 1: Fix depth.

We don't know what we truly have with the top tier core (Eichel, ROR, Reinhart, Risto)... until we put a respectable team around them.


Step 2: Evaluate Botts

With focus on fixing the NHL roster, we can better assess Botts. He did an absolutely terrible job this year. And even if it can be justified under the disguise of evaluating the roster / tanking... it still hurt the franchise (another putrid season for Eichel and core).

If Botts shows he can build a roster around talent, I will have some confidence in him going forward. If he simply starts re-cycling the top of the roster (ROR for X), and expects another round of Pouliots and Beaulieu's to build the depth... then he is worse than Murray.

If Botts fails in Step 1, the evaluation in Step 2 is easy... Botts has to go.

Step 3: Evaluate Housley

With a competent NHL roster top to bottom, we can then fully evaluate Housley. He's been terrible this year, but I am tempted to give him some form of a pass. Even though his usage is infuriating, I'm willing to see how he handles a good roster.

If Botts executes Step 1, and thus passes Step 2..... then Step 3 is on Housley.

Bottom line: Botts and Housley have been a disaster this year. They are rookies.... will they develop?

I was really just aiming for the middle of the road talent level acquisitions more so than the flexibilty of the players(which I agree we need). For everything I hate Darcy for, I have to give credit, where credit is due. The guy knew who to listen to to find the support players that we drastically need right now to build a competitive team. Guys like Lydman, guys like Dumont, guys like Mair, hell even guys like Flynn...We need those type of guys and that's an easier hill to climb than trading away high assets like Risto and ROR and changing the core.

 

[OkimLom]

Yes? They fired their coach.

That leadership group did not put their foot down about losing in their third season the way it was framed.

The reason why I asked is because I went to check on when Quenneville came on board. Saw 4 games in Savard was fired. Were they playing that badly, or was that a just case of management picking up on the mood of the locker room and making the decision that a change behind the bench was needed?

 

[Jame]

Are we still criticizing Botterill for not doing enough to the roster? Botterill made many changes to the roster including Scandella, Antipin, and Beaulieu to shape the backend; and tried to fill some depth with forwards.

Yes, those of us who are objective are...

GMJB had to balance building a winning team in Rochester (building bottom-up) and getting quality NHLers.

And he did an absolutely pathetic job at the later.

IMO I still think it’s baffling that some are angry that Botterill somehow did not transform a roster devoid of depth into one that has a ton of depth. Are we still really mad he didn’t make a franchise defining trade? Are we mad because he didn’t try and pick up more players off waivers?

I'm more upset that he barely tried. Especially beyond the offseaosn.

Tim Murray made many aggressive moves with the bundle of assets he inherited. Most of those trades were not worth the price he paid. The good news is that Buffalo has many top end talented players, Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, and some high end prospects in Mittelstadt/Nylander/2018 Top-4 pick. Building depth takes time... we will get there.

You basically just credited Murray with all the good news.

 

[Dreakon13]

And he did an absolutely pathetic job at the later

C'mon, don't get all hyperbolic. Scandella and Wilson elevate Botts above "absolutely pathetic". Several years of Scandella is a FAR bigger asset, than a couple low-risk Josefson/Pouliot/Nolan/Beaulieu pickups are problems. You only have so many options when your replacing half your team in one offseason (your first offseason as an NHL GM no less).


EDIT: I think some folks had way too much of an attachment to this season. From Day 0 last offseason, after Murray and Bylsma were canned, expectations should've been tempered knowing a) this would be an evaluation year for the new management regardless of who they hired and b) there'd be growing pains on top of the fact this wasn't a very good team last year either.

Yet people act like we were one or two cunning moves away from contending or something, and dumb dumb Botts ruined everything and we hate him now.

 

[OkimLom]

C'mon, don't get all hyperbolic. Scandella and Wilson elevate Botts above "absolutely pathetic". Several years of Scandella is a FAR bigger asset, than a couple low-risk Josefson/Pouliot/Nolan/Beaulieu pickups are problems. You only have so many options when your replacing half your team in one offseason (your first offseason as an NHL GM no less).


EDIT: I think some folks had way too much of an attachment to this season. From Day 0 last offseason, after Murray and Bylsma were canned, expectations should've been tempered knowing a) this would be an evaluation year for the new management and b) there'd be growing pains on top of the fact this wasn't a very good team last year either.

Yet people act like we were one or two cunning moves away from contending or something, and Botts doomed us.

Botts made the evaluation he needed to trade for Wilson in season. He made the evaluation to sign Nolan from waivers early in the season. What stopped him from making further evaluations to the roster? If this was truly an evaluation year, a GM might want to ask his coach to go through combinations to find out what players could fit where as well. Pretty much give him some game notes to figure out what he needs to do in the coming offseasons.

 

[Dreakon13]

Botts made the evaluation he needed to trade for Wilson in season. He made the evaluation to sign Nolan from waivers early in the season. What stopped him from making further evaluations to the roster? If this was truly an evaluation year, a GM might want to ask his coach to go through combinations to find out what players could fit where as well. Pretty much give him some game notes to figure out what he needs to do in the coming offseasons.

Yeah, he picked up one or two guys. Nothing groundbreaking exactly. Wilson was to replace a waived Moulson (which was moreso to send a message than anything) and not touch Rochester. Nolan was his answer to moving on from Deslauriers and came before the season actually started.

I'm not sure how many more worthwhile "combinations" there are to try, other than ROR and Eichel to wing. Phil stuck with certain things, a little excessively at times, but who knows what conversations were going on behind the scenes that led to those decisions. There was no magic combination that was going to save this season, things were too jacked up out of the gate.

At any rate, whether it needed to take the full season or not, we know what we have in these guys now. I stand by the thought that this offseason is Botts real test.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Replacing Deslauriers with someone capable of being an effective rotation forward, like say, Kerby Rychel, would have demonstrated a progressive hockey outlook from the top.

Instead, we somehow downgraded DLo’s roster spot because our GM listened to a terrible coaching staff.