Free Agent Frenzy - Friday 10/9

[pz29]

What are you hoping for the team to be in the end? I'm kind of feeling like I just want them to be better enough so that they have a better chance of getting a #1-#3 pick. Even though there's no tangible way to really hope for that. Like we can't watch them be the 2nd/3rd worst team and feel like, "#1 pick is ours!"

Are we back to the "let's be terrible enough to get a high pick" again, even after how we got screwed this year? Some people never learn! Or did I misread your post?

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Where is this article?

It was in a presser ~ 1 week ago, it's on YT somewhere.

 

[jkutswings]

Are we back to the "let's be terrible enough to get a high pick" again, even after how we got screwed this year? Some people never learn! Or did I misread your post?

I would have preferred Lafreniere or Byfield, yes. But I'm very happy with Raymond, and I'm fine with one more last place finish, whether they land #1 or #4.

Yzerman is indeed building something. But it's going to take at least 1-2 more drafts (and then a few years of development) for things to come together.

 

[Ricelund]

There’s likely a lot of moves on hold until everyone knows more about the schedule/attendance situation next year. It still wouldn’t surprise me to see the Wings trade for Johnson in a few weeks/months.

 

[Winger98]

Conversely, next summer could be just as bad or worse though. If offseason #1 is any indication, offseason #2 means even more players added to the NHL chopping block or cost-cutting contracts. I think it gets worse before it gets better. I could understand Chris I. not wanting a $20m bill for only $12.5m value/4yrs...he likely doesn't want another soon to be Flip/Frans after paying Abby the last 4 yrs & buyout. Maybe the sweetener(s) weren't enough in Chris' eyes either. In all likelihood we weren't getting offered (2) 1sts + a good C/D prospect, so I'm glad we didn't end up with TJ, though I see his worth.

It could, I'm just not betting on it. GMs aren't stupid, they're going to learn from this off-season and plan accordingly. And players are going to enter into the the off-season and contract negotiations knowing what to look for, too. Someone might shake loose, but I'd bet on teams figuring it out a bit more.

With TJ, you trust your hockey people. It's why Yzerman is GM, to make that call on a guy like TJ. If Yzerman didn't want him that is one thing, having an owner step in and squash something the GM wants is something else.

 

[jkutswings]

With TJ, you trust your hockey people. It's why Yzerman is GM, to make that call on a guy like TJ. If Yzerman didn't want him that is one thing, having an owner step in and squash something the GM wants is something else.

Understood. But since nobody else seems to be knocking down Tampa's door to deal for him, the ownership scenario (however potentially concerning) has not yet cost the team anything.

If there's still a holding pattern when the season starts, or another team beats them to a great trade for TJ, then angst is justified.

 

[Winger98]

Understood. But since nobody else seems to be knocking down Tampa's door to deal for him, the ownership scenario (however potentially concerning) has not yet cost the team anything.

If there's still a holding pattern when the season starts, or another team beats them to a great trade for TJ, then angst is justified.

well, no, right now it has still cost them a second line center. And that's also assuming there weren't other signings/tradings nixed.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I think the team will be passable enough to just squeak into the playoffs but get washed out of the first round

Such is our luck

 

[FabricDetails]

Are we back to the "let's be terrible enough to get a high pick" again, even after how we got screwed this year? Some people never learn! Or did I misread your post?

Just being realistic - I don't necessarily want them to be terrible but they are. How much of a jump can we really expect them to make? Especially after the off-season they've had so far. If they're planning to be that bad, might as well hope they're not bad enough to be the worst team in the league but bad enough to get a high pick.

 

[BinCookin]

You guys are talking like there was a trade or signing obviously turned down by management. I see no evidence in any presser that this has happened.

Also what does TJ do to our team? Dead last to 6th Last? He is signed for 4 years. That is not a short time.
I think Yzerman knows what our team is. A new young and promising team , its pretty clear he has kept all his contracts short on purpose. I think not adding TJ was a specific choice. Not something he is being handcuffed by.

I did not want Krug, or TJ, or anyone like that.

I want Cernak or Cirelli, and if we cant get an RFA like that, than ill take Johnson BUT ONLY for a huge haul in Draft picks.
And if that doesn't happen... who cares, just sign some more 1 year deals we can flip at the deadline for more 2nd round picks.

Is our team improved? ... YES.
Are we the worst team in tthe league still? ... Ya, probably.

So unless there is a surprise from Svechnikov, Rasmussen, Cholowski or someone like that... Than we need more time.

If you guys want to keep talking about how Yzerman is being handcuffed, I am going to need a really good source on this, because its very much reading between the lines.

 

[Frk It]

If the article about Yzerman having moves nixed by ownership is at all accurate then they had some who were interested.

This is interesting, I had not heard anything about this.

 

[jkutswings]

well, no, right now it has still cost them a second line center. And that's also assuming there weren't other signings/tradings nixed.

But that's my point. The 2C they are allegedly interested is still available and no teams have started training camp yet. So while there might be an issue with ownership delaying a move, we haven't yet reached either a date on the schedule where it matters or a scenario where you can no longer negotiate for said player.

In other words, if Detroit gets a 1st rounder for TJ on October 15 or December 15 is irrelevant, as long as that's the player and the return they wanted all along

 

[Tetsuo]

But that's my point. The 2C they are allegedly interested is still available and no teams have started training camp yet. So while there might be an issue with ownership delaying a move, we haven't yet reached either a date on the schedule where it matters or a scenario where you can no longer negotiate for said player.

In other words, if Detroit gets a 1st rounder for TJ on October 15 or December 15 is irrelevant, as long as that's the player and the return they wanted all along

Exactly. There is still plenty of time for deals to be made, given that there are multiple teams above, at or near the cap that still need to shed salary, and only a very small number of teams with the room to take it on.

 

[Winger98]

This is interesting, I had not heard anything about this.

It was linked in another thread, I think @Ricelund posted it but we all remember how reliable he is.

But that's my point. The 2C they are allegedly interested is still available and no teams have started training camp yet. So while there might be an issue with ownership delaying a move, we haven't yet reached either a date on the schedule where it matters or a scenario where you can no longer negotiate for said player.

In other words, if Detroit gets a 1st rounder for TJ on October 15 or December 15 is irrelevant, as long as that's the player and the return they wanted all along

we're not going to agree on this but this just seems like something you could apply to pretty much any move and use it as a blanket excuse for making or not making a move. Just because TJ was available a week ago doesn't mean he's going to be available in two weeks or that the price will change. If Yzerman was okay with making the call at the time, I don't want an owner stepping in and thinking they know better about the hockey side of it.

 

[jkutswings]

we're not going to agree on this but this just seems like something you could apply to pretty much any move and use it as a blanket excuse for making or not making a move. Just because TJ was available a week ago doesn't mean he's going to be available in two weeks or that the price will change. If Yzerman was okay with making the call at the time, I don't want an owner stepping in and thinking they know better about the hockey side of it.

I actually think we agree, and are just articulating different aspects of the situation.

Do the Wings run the risk of missing out altogether on a deal(s) of interest? Yes.

Is that frustrating and possibly concerning to fans? Yes.

But have they reached the point of no return, at least on a deal for TJ? Not yet.

Ideally you want your owner to remain hands off and trust your GM. I'm HOPING this is a very temporary situation due to the pandemic, but we'll see. (And if it turns out to be a longer term practice, I will have a major issue with it.)

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It was linked in another thread, I think @Ricelund posted it but we all remember how reliable he is.



we're not going to agree on this but this just seems like something you could apply to pretty much any move and use it as a blanket excuse for making or not making a move. Just because TJ was available a week ago doesn't mean he's going to be available in two weeks or that the price will change. If Yzerman was okay with making the call at the time, I don't want an owner stepping in and thinking they know better about the hockey side of it.

I don't think that's the case. Tyler Johnson doesn't fit the mold of what Yzerman is doing with the contracts. I'm thinking that the moves they were prevented from making resulted in guys going to other places. Things more like the Nate Schmidt trade or going after Pietrangelo or Krug or whatever. It just would seem weird that Yzerman is dead set on everything being one or two year deals and then he'd shell out for Tyler Johnson with his weighty 4 years at 5M+.

I think there is a little bit of worry because Chris Ilitch isn't his old man and you can't trust him to keep the pocket book open and filled with infinite money indefinitely. Not legitimate worry that Chris Ilitch is going to Rachel Phelps the team.

To add, while Tyler Johnson would be at a minimum the second best C on our roster... he’s also not the Tyler Johnson that you remember being a terror when LGD wasn’t there to hold him in check. There is a reason Tampa has been rumored to want to move him for several years that aren’t wholly related to them being in a cap crunch now. It is just necessary to do so instead of being a good idea.

I mean, he was on a loaded Lightning team and had 31 points this year.

Look back at what Frans Nielsen was when we acquired him in FA. He’s a couple years older than TJ... but 2016 Nielsen compares pretty damn well all things considered to current TJ. So... for acquiring him, that’s not a good sign.

 

[Gniwder]

I don't think that's the case. Tyler Johnson doesn't fit the mold of what Yzerman is doing with the contracts. I'm thinking that the moves they were prevented from making resulted in guys going to other places. Things more like the Nate Schmidt trade or going after Pietrangelo or Krug or whatever. It just would seem weird that Yzerman is dead set on everything being one or two year deals and then he'd shell out for Tyler Johnson with his weighty 4 years at 5M+.

I think there is a little bit of worry because Chris Ilitch isn't his old man and you can't trust him to keep the pocket book open and filled with infinite money indefinitely. Not legitimate worry that Chris Ilitch is going to Rachel Phelps the team.

To add, while Tyler Johnson would be at a minimum the second best C on our roster... he’s also not the Tyler Johnson that you remember being a terror when LGD wasn’t there to hold him in check. There is a reason Tampa has been rumored to want to move him for several years that aren’t wholly related to them being in a cap crunch now. It is just necessary to do so instead of being a good idea.

I mean, he was on a loaded Lightning team and had 31 points this year.

Look back at what Frans Nielsen was when we acquired him in FA. He’s a couple years older than TJ... but 2016 Nielsen compares pretty damn well all things considered to current TJ. So... for acquiring him, that’s not a good sign.

Some good points there, Fabbri had just as many points in 13 fewer games playing on a complete crap team. Might as well try Fabbri or Namestnikov at 2C instead of spending the money on TJ, Fabbri is actually bigger than TJ anyways.

 

[ricky0034]

i'm just confused why everyone in here is treating that Justin Spiro rumor as if it's an established fact

was there someone else also saying something similar that I missed?

 

[Winger98]

I don't think that's the case. Tyler Johnson doesn't fit the mold of what Yzerman is doing with the contracts. I'm thinking that the moves they were prevented from making resulted in guys going to other places. Things more like the Nate Schmidt trade or going after Pietrangelo or Krug or whatever. It just would seem weird that Yzerman is dead set on everything being one or two year deals and then he'd shell out for Tyler Johnson with his weighty 4 years at 5M+.

I think there is a little bit of worry because Chris Ilitch isn't his old man and you can't trust him to keep the pocket book open and filled with infinite money indefinitely. Not legitimate worry that Chris Ilitch is going to Rachel Phelps the team.

To add, while Tyler Johnson would be at a minimum the second best C on our roster... he’s also not the Tyler Johnson that you remember being a terror when LGD wasn’t there to hold him in check. There is a reason Tampa has been rumored to want to move him for several years that aren’t wholly related to them being in a cap crunch now. It is just necessary to do so instead of being a good idea.

I mean, he was on a loaded Lightning team and had 31 points this year.

Look back at what Frans Nielsen was when we acquired him in FA. He’s a couple years older than TJ... but 2016 Nielsen compares pretty damn well all things considered to current TJ. So... for acquiring him, that’s not a good sign.

Johnson has taken a smaller role on a stacked team, something that we've seen cut into a players production through the years ourselves (whitney, hudler, samuelsson to name a few guys we have seen take smaller roles on the Wings only to go to other teams later and have their production escalate). Throw Johnson over the board for 17 minutes a night like he was a few years ago when the lightening needed him to do that, and I'd agree the comparison to Nielsen might be closer to bang on.

I'd also point out that for the first three years of his deal here Nielsen was a pretty solid player for us and is pretty much what we need now. If Johnson came in, held down ~17 minutes a night, put up 35+ points, while giving his wings an idea of what having an actual centerman is like, that's a win in my book. It is way more than we have now, and likely more than we'll have next year. I really don't consider a comparison to Nielsen a few years ago as a negative thing.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Johnson has taken a smaller role on a stacked team, something that we've seen cut into a players production through the years ourselves (whitney, hudler, samuelsson to name a few guys we have seen take smaller roles on the Wings only to go to other teams later and have their production escalate). Throw Johnson over the board for 17 minutes a night like he was a few years ago when the lightening needed him to do that, and I'd agree the comparison to Nielsen might be closer to bang on.

I'd also point out that for the first three years of his deal here Nielsen was a pretty solid player for us and is pretty much what we need now. If Johnson came in, held down ~17 minutes a night, put up 35+ points, while giving his wings an idea of what having an actual centerman is like, that's a win in my book. It is way more than we have now, and likely more than we'll have next year. I really don't consider a comparison to Nielsen a few years ago as a negative thing.

These are solid points. However, I'm happy they're gonna try Fabbri @2C, his natural & preferred position, if that fails maybe Vlad grabs it & runs with it. I do think the org. is higher on Veleno than we are on HF, but either way there's no guarantee he's 2C material (next year & beyond), just like the prior 2.

Per Ottawa fans Ryan was looking decent after rehab, so maybe a Bert-Fabbri-Zadina like for 1 (likely shortened) season won't hurt. Put Ryan w/Larkin & Mantha. Vlad is 3C, the rest is a mix.

 

[ShanahanMan]

i'm just confused why everyone in here is treating that Justin Spiro rumor as if it's an established fact

was there someone else also saying something similar that I missed?

What was the rumor?

EDIT: Just saw the report. My question is, why are the Wings’ finances in trouble compared to other teams? They’re all dealing with Covid.

 

[raymond23]

See 1:55

 

[BinCookin]

I dont think Yzerman has been handcuffed at all. I think his moves are exactly the plan he wanted.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I dont think Yzerman has been handcuffed at all. I think his moves are exactly the plan he wanted.

For all we know it's misdirection strategy to raise the quality & quantity of sweetener(s) on any potential cap casualty/dump trades.

Additionally it could be to lower the asking price of trades/UFA's etc. Make 'em sweat it out as the clock ticks...as Yzerman zips around in his Porsche blaring 'Time Is On My Side' by the Rolling Stones (chuckling to himself) Mwahahahaha.

 

[BinCookin]

For all we know it's misdirection strategy to raise the quality & quantity of sweetener(s) on any potential cap casualty/dump trades.

Additionally it could be to lower the asking price of trades/UFA's etc. Make 'em sweat it out as the clock ticks...as Yzerman zips around in his Porsche blaring 'Time Is On My Side' by the Rolling Stones (chuckling to himself) Mwahahahaha.

WHERE IS THE PROOF?! I HAVE SEEEN NONE, nothing in a presser, no article about this at all.
Dont know what all of you are talking about, and no one has linked crap here