Free Agent Frenzy - Friday 10/9

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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Nielsen was a 6 year deal to a guy that was 32 years old already at the start of it

stuff like injuries should be the expectation when you're signing guys that old to 6 year contracts

Yeah, and he had a down year from it. His contract was also right around what players of his ilk typically sign. The gator deal was bad the moment the ink dried on it, it was clearly above what he should have been able to command and we saw that play out the following summer when players with similar roles and numbers signed for mush less around the league.

Though, I'd also be curious how often players have serious injury issues in any six year period of their careers. I mean, I always assumed younger guys just stay healthier (or are able to play through injuries at a higher level?) but I might be entirely wrong about that. I just have what I see to go on. It would be interesting to see someone try to run down some actual numbers on it.
 

MBH

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Nielsen was a 6 year deal to a guy that was 32 years old already at the start of it

stuff like injuries should be the expectation when you're signing guys that old to 6 year contracts

I agree with almost all of @Winger98 's post but yeah, I don't like that Nielsen contract at all.
Remember, by the way, what Eric Staal signed for that same year in Minnesota.

Stats. Staal vs Nielsen
Staal 311 games 111-129-240 $12.7M over 4 years.
Nielsen 290 games 47-71-118 $21M over 4 years.

People will say, Staal wanted to go to Minnesota, or Staal played on a better team. Whatever. The point is that Minnesota got value. Holland didn't.

It was Holland wasting cap space because he had cap space to waste.

I was never a fan of the Weiss signing either.

I'm not advocating Yzerman overpay Bertuzzi. But I think almost everyone agrees $3.1M is lowballing a guy with two straight 20-30-50 seasons in his backpocket.
I hope to hell Bertuzzi wins his case and doesn't feel offended about it.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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I don't get the animosity. Bertuzzi deserves between $3.5M and $4M for a 1 year deal, and that's the middle ground that the arbitrator will likely rule for.

Saying he deserves $4.25M for 1 year is like saying he deserves $5.5-6M AAV on a 5 year deal, and he's not that good a player.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
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Yeah, and he had a down year from it. His contract was also right around what players of his ilk typically sign. The gator deal was bad the moment the ink dried on it, it was clearly above what he should have been able to command and we saw that play out the following summer when players with similar roles and numbers signed for mush less around the league.

Though, I'd also be curious how often players have serious injury issues in any six year period of their careers. I mean, I always assumed younger guys just stay healthier (or are able to play through injuries at a higher level?) but I might be entirely wrong about that. I just have what I see to go on. It would be interesting to see someone try to run down some actual numbers on it.

No offence meant, as I agree with lots of stuff you post, but Nielsen has been disappointing from the get go. We hoped for a 40-55 pt player who was really good in his own end for the length and term he got and he immediately under delivered, with just 40 ish pts his first year and was definitely underwhelming in his own end. His offense and defence have plummeted significantly each year of the deal, and 2020-21 he was bottom 3 worst with Howard, Abby and himself. If he had played well and aged better the deal wouldn't have been so bad, which is why I didn't initially hate it, but even after his 1st season I was already annoyed with what he brought to the table. Players like him at already age 32, should really get no more than a 3 year deal from anyone, especially since almost every player starts the downhill trend at that point. Only star players and extreme rarities maintain decent pace as they his their 35+ seasons.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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I don't get the animosity. Bertuzzi deserves between $3.5M and $4M for a 1 year deal, and that's the middle ground that the arbitrator will likely rule for.

Saying he deserves $4.25M for 1 year is like saying he deserves $5.5-6M AAV on a 5 year deal, and he's not that good a player.

I think the arbitrator is going to give him a 1 year 3.75 whenever that decision is made.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Look at what Bertuzzi is asking for. does that seem crazy to you? It doesn't to me, especially when also looking at the list of comparable contracts @MBH put up and the contract expectations @Henkka has posted. Yzerman's push is just flat out low.

There has also been these contracts constructed in way like 2M - 5M - 5M in salaries (4M caphit). I wouldn't say it's just pure lowballing. It quarantees better "corona" money for first year than many other contracts players have got at this summer.
 

Winger98

Moderator
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No offence meant, as I agree with lots of stuff you post, but Nielsen has been disappointing from the get go. We hoped for a 40-55 pt player who was really good in his own end for the length and term he got and he immediately under delivered, with just 40 ish pts his first year and was definitely underwhelming in his own end. His offense and defence have plummeted significantly each year of the deal, and 2020-21 he was bottom 3 worst with Howard, Abby and himself. If he had played well and aged better the deal wouldn't have been so bad, which is why I didn't initially hate it, but even after his 1st season I was already annoyed with what he brought to the table. Players like him at already age 32, should really get no more than a 3 year deal from anyone, especially since almost every player starts the downhill trend at that point. Only star players and extreme rarities maintain decent pace as they his their 35+ seasons.

No offense disagreeing with me, this place is for that. I guess I just have different expectations for the guy. His first three years here he put up something like 40, 31, 35 points. Considering the team around him those numbers just don't surprise me. It would have been nice if he still flashed that 50 point guy he showed a couple of seasons in NYI, but those teams were also flat out better than the wings. Nielsen is/was a pretty solid player who came to detroit and I think his boat got swamped by the weak team that surrounded him.

When the Fabbri experiment doesn't pan out, hopefully Nielsen can step into that 2C spot and give us an actual center there.
 

Henkka

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How many other guys with two straight 20-30-50 guys signed for 1x3.75?
Who are the comparables that make you think that's the sweet spot?

Kevin Labanc signed for 1 million, when he should have earned 4M.

Don't think there's many of these short-tearm deals, because those weren't common before corona.

That contract could be THE thing to pull that average a bit down.

Like, if there's four 4M comparables and one comparable with 1M, the average from these is 3.4M...
 

MBH

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Kevin Labanc signed for 1 million, when he should have earned 4M.

Don't think there's many of these short-tearm deals, because those weren't common before corona.

That contract could be THE thing to pull that average a bit down.

Like, if there's four 4M comparables and one comparable with 1M, the average from these is 3.4M...

Lebanc signed a 4x4,75M deal. And he's younger than Bertuzzi by 10 months.
 

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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The Wings must have a few in mind to have pushed their number.
Not saying this is the best means, but I looked at the 3 wingers above and 3 below Bertuzzi for regular season points in 2019-20, and their current contracts:

Timo Meier, 4 x $6M
TJ Oshie, 8 x $5.75M
Filip Forsberg, 6 x $6M
Evgenii Dadonov, 3 x $5M
Evander Kane, 7 x $7M
Dominik Kubalik, 2 x $3.7M

So I could see arguing a 4-5 year deal around $5.5M per, which would probably scale to a 1 year deal around $4M.
 

Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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Didn't realize Granlund was still a FA. Keeping my eyes on a few guys like Duclair, Vatanen, and now Granlund.

Lots of smoke with Tampa bay too Idk if anything will or won't happen just seems like somethings brewing.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
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UFAs available:

- W Mike Hoffman - 6-7M
- F Mikael Granlund - 5M
- RD Sami Vatanen - 4-5M
- RD Travis Hamonic - 3-4M
- C Erik Haula 2-4M
- LD Andy Greene - 2M
- Carl Söderberg - 2M

That's pretty much the market. Rest are 1M guys.
 
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Scoresberg

In Trotz We Trust?
May 28, 2015
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Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.

No. No. Just no.

Hell no.

We want you to not ask for Anthony Mantha.
 

lomekian

Registered User
Oct 28, 2013
1,871
891
London
Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.

You'd have to add. Mantha is a lot better than his current stat sheet. Massive play driver. Good in his own end. Top end shot. Good skater. Good vision. 6"5. Whenever he stays fit, he looks a PPG beast, and his injuries are all freaks and unrelated. Also his game shouldn't be as impacted by aging as others given his style. If he had Larkin's motor he would be top 20 player in the NHL. To let him go, you want something either sure fire or elite potential in return, as he's a genuine top line player, who still has greater upside.
 

Scoresberg

In Trotz We Trust?
May 28, 2015
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You'd have to add. Mantha is a lot better than his current stat sheet. Massive play driver. Good in his own end. Top end shot. Good skater. Good vision. 6"5. Whenever he stays fit, he looks a PPG beast, and his injuries are all freaks and unrelated. Also his game shouldn't be as impacted by aging as others given his style. If he had Larkin's motor he would be top 20 player in the NHL. To let him go, you want something either sure fire or elite potential in return, as he's a genuine top line player, who still has greater upside.

Thanks for this. Is there anything we could make a deal around? Given you don't need/want any current older roster players. It might be that Yzerman doesn't want to go top-dollar and long-term with Mantha given that you have Zadina, Raymond coming up to take top-6 winger spots.

Mainly, I was just wondering if he was available so you would be willing to move him. Obviously, the price will be through the roof if he's "unavailable".
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.

I would have liked to see more improvement since that 17-18 season to make me want to make a move like this. Kind of looks like he has plateaued a bit. I did like him in his draft year though.
 
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Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
40,243
6,036
Winter Haven Florida
Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.
No thanks not enough for Mantha, Tolvanen and picks doesn't move the needle for us. I'm sure Tolvanen is a great prospect but not enough and the 2nd and 3rd round picks from Nashville would be late. If Mantha were put on the market we can get a by far better return for him then your proposal. Sorry we will keep Mantha if this is all we get.
 
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Sep 28, 2017
6,515
6,630
Grand Rapids, MI
Hello Red Wings Fans, just wanted to pop in and ask is Mantha part of your long-term strategy or is he available? He would be a perfect fit for us on the 2nd line and I was wondering what would the cost be for him..

Was thinking something like this, I assume you don't want any older roster players as a part of the deal:

2021 2nd + 2022 3rd + Tolvanen

-> Similar to Burakovsky deal a year ago but with a top prospect added. You do have Zadina who's pretty similar to Tolvanen, though. Would you guys want Ingram as a part of the deal? An AHL All-Star, he's pretty much ready for the NHL.

Some people oddly are willing to trade Mantha, mostly based on his age and our team's timeline. But to me a healthy Mantha is an elite first line winger. Going to cost A LOT to get him.
 
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