GDT: Free Agent Frenzy 2

[pman25]

Snively, Leason, Malenstyn…I mean wouldn’t doubt those guys could end up in Arizona some day but it will be through the waiver wire, not a Chychrun deal

 

[zappa4ever]

"Hey Arizona, I want your best player but all I'm willing to give you is trash"


Chychrun is 24 years old.
Full of potential.

It's like you don't realize that Chychrun is the already the player you want Fehervary to become, while still being very young and having potential to reach a ceiling that Fehervary won't achieve. And signed to a very affordable contract to boot.

You apparently don't realize that getting Chychrun AND keeping Fever is more ideal.
Where in the world do you come up with that Fever doesn't have a high ceiling?
How good was Orlov at 22? Jensen? JC74?

We have Fever at a very affordable ~800K currently and RFA next year

"..all I'm willing to give you is trash"
--- so 50 Caps contracts but Fever is the ONLY way?
c'mon...
surely the Caps could package a deal like Mantha/Snively/LuJo or Sheary/Snively/LuJo+picks or any other number of combos

as much as I say Never Trade a Top Dman... an aging Dman can be an exception and with Carlson at 32 I'd be fine with that trade, but not with Fever at 22

 

[twabby]

So I haven't watched AZ games. Is Chychrun really that good? AZ had the second-worst goals against number last season. Honest question.

Here are Chychrun’s player cards from 19-21 and 20-22. His 22 season was cut short by injury, which impacted his 20-22 results negatively.

He’s an excellent player. Probably better than anyone on the Capitals blueline right now. He’s the type of player you happily give up a blue chip or two for, especially at his age and contract.

 

[caps4cup]

View attachment 569735

View attachment 569737

Here are Chychrun’s player cards from 19-21 and 20-22. His 22 season was cut short by injury, which impacted his 20-22 results negatively.

He’s an excellent player. Probably better than anyone on the Capitals blueline right now. He’s the type of player you happily give up a blue chip or two for, especially at his age and contract.

What do Carlson’s player cards look like? Dom’s cards have Carlson as a more valuable player quite easily so I’m interested to see how Evolving (and maybe JFresh) compare the 2.

I’m not under the impression that Carlson is perfect, but I think a lot of what you have said about Strome (which I agree with completely) being undervalued because his style instead of his on ice impacts, can also be stated about Carlson. He’s still been overall a really valuable defensemen even if his playoffs have been a bag of shit.

 

[twabby]

What do Carlson’s player cards look like? Dom’s cards have Carlson as a more valuable player quite easily so I’m interested to see how Evolving (and maybe JFresh) compare the 2.

I’m not under the impression that Carlson is perfect, but I think a lot of what you have said about Strome (which I agree with completely) being undervalued because his style instead of his on ice impacts, can also be stated about Carlson. He’s still been overall a really valuable defensemen even if his playoffs have been a bag of shit.

Carlson is an excellent one-way regular season player. I’d have no interest in trading him if he didn’t fall apart every single postseason.

 

[caps4cup]

View attachment 569750

Carlson is an excellent one-way regular season player. I’d have no interest in trading him if he didn’t fall apart every single postseason.

Thanks, that’s about what I expected. He definitely needs Fehervary to take a step defensively this year to help cover for more of his own deficiencies. Let’s hope that’s the case.

I’m still conflicted about his playoff performances though. They certainly need to improve, but this was the only post-Cup year where the team generally played pretty well and he didn’t, following 3 straight poor performances from virtually everyone.

He’s certainly frustrating but I wouldn’t be surprised if he (and the team) have a much better playoff showing with what looks to be a fairy improved roster this season.

 

[twabby]

Thanks, that’s about what I expected. He definitely needs Fehervary to take a step defensively this year to help cover for more of his own deficiencies. Let’s hope that’s the case.

I’m still conflicted about his playoff performances though. They certainly need to improve, but this was the only post-Cup year where the team generally played pretty well and he didn’t, following 3 straight poor performances from virtually everyone.

He’s certainly frustrating but I wouldn’t be surprised if he (and the team) have a much better playoff showing with what looks to be a fairy improved roster this season.

But Orlov and to a lesser extent Jensen have done pretty well overall even as the team around them hasn’t. I truly do wonder if the causality isn’t flipped: is Washington a bad playoff team in large part due to Carlson flopping? Or vice versa?

 

[caps4cup]

But Orlov and to a lesser extent Jensen have done pretty well overall even as the team around them hasn’t. I truly do wonder if the causality isn’t flipped: is Washington a bad playoff team in large part due to Carlson flopping? Or vice versa?

Jensen and Orlov did struggle pretty mightily against Florida though. The forwards generally haven’t been great either.

But yeah I do agree. Either way Carlson needs to be better. I’m far from a Carlson fan boy, he can be frustrating and lackadaisical as hell. But I do think he had been pretty good in the playoffs up until the Cup run, playing with better partners on teams that were generally more skilled and competitive.

 

[twabby]

Jensen and Orlov did struggle pretty mightily against Florida though. The forwards generally haven’t been great either.

But yeah I do agree. Either way Carlson needs to be better. I’m far from a Carlson fan boy, he can be frustrating and lackadaisical as hell. But I do think he had been pretty good in the playoffs up until the Cup run, playing with better partners on teams that were generally more skilled and competitive.

They did have a poor series, no doubt about it. And yeah the forwards haven’t been very good aside from the 4th line.

But Carlson has gone from fantastic regular season player to unplayable in 4 straight postseasons. It’s not like he just does worse. He doesn’t become an average player. He becomes Ben Chiarot.

 

[Hivemind]

You apparently don't realize that getting Chychrun AND keeping Fever is more ideal.
Where in the world do you come up with that Fever doesn't have a high ceiling?
How good was Orlov at 22? Jensen? JC74?

We have Fever at a very affordable ~800K currently and RFA next year

"..all I'm willing to give you is trash"
--- so 50 Caps contracts but Fever is the ONLY way?
c'mon...
surely the Caps could package a deal like Mantha/Snively/LuJo or Sheary/Snively/LuJo+picks or any other number of combos

as much as I say Never Trade a Top Dman... an aging Dman can be an exception and with Carlson at 32 I'd be fine with that trade, but not with Fever at 22

Put those proposals into the Trade Forum and you will get laughed out of there. You can't get a team's Star 24 year old defenseman for a Conor Sheary, Joe Snively, and Lucas Johansen. Generally speaking, teams don't trade their dollar bill for four quarters, but the players you're offering there aren't even quarters. Mantha is the only valuable asset you offered up, but what good does a 27 year old forward with only two years of control left on his deal provide to Arizona?

Let's put this another way. Would you accept Dysin Mayo, Nick Ritchie, Jack McBain and picks for Tom Wilson? Because that's what your offer is.

This isn't a bad contract or a situation where a team desperately needs to get under the salary cap. You have to give to get. And Fehervary is the most sensible option to build the offer around, for both franchises. Otherwise you'd be talking about absolutely gutting the forward prospects with a McMichael & Lapierre together base for the trade. The Capitals would be acquiring a top pairing LHD with Norris-contention upside. Fehervary, while very promising, isn't going to reach the level that Chychrun could potentially reach. But he's a young, promising asset that Arizona can use as justification for letting Chychrun go.

You and I both agree on rather trading Carlson, but Carlson isnt going to waive his partial-NTC to go to Arizona.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

The problem isn't giving up Fehervary for Chychrun. It's adding CMM or Lapierre and a high pick.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Put those proposals into the Trade Forum and you will get laughed out of there. You can't get a team's Star 24 year old defenseman for a Conor Sheary, Joe Snively, and Lucas Johansen. Generally speaking, teams don't trade their dollar bill for four quarters, but the players you're offering there aren't even quarters. Mantha is the only valuable asset you offered up, but what good does a 27 year old forward with only two years of control left on his deal provide to Arizona?

Let's put this another way. Would you accept Dysin Mayo, Nick Ritchie, Jack McBain and picks for Tom Wilson? Because that's what your offer is.

This isn't a bad contract or a situation where a team desperately needs to get under the salary cap. You have to give to get. And Fehervary is the most sensible option to build the offer around, for both franchises. Otherwise you'd be talking about absolutely gutting the forward prospects with a McMichael & Lapierre together base for the trade. The Capitals would be acquiring a top pairing LHD with Norris-contention upside. Fehervary, while very promising, isn't going to reach the level that Chychrun could potentially reach. But he's a young, promising asset that Arizona can use as justification for letting Chychrun go.

You and I both agree on rather trading Carlson, but Carlson isnt going to waive his partial-NTC to go to Arizona.

They do if you have cap space and a team is in a crunch. Other then that its market value

I wouldnt trade 3 good futures for one mild upgrade. Sounds like a sukers trade

 

[DWGie26]

I can't agree at all with those who value Hendrix over McMike.

He had 50 points in 40 games in the Q. That's honestly terrible for a d+1 first round pick in the Q. Sure you can argue he lost motivation because of being sent down but it doesn't really matter the reason. He did not improve his stock.

McMike had a decent rookie season. Not as much production as hoped but analytics suggests he was doing the right things.

Cmm>> Lapierre

He’s 19. People anointed him too early. But he is a talent and his attitude is top notch. Has that fight. And as you said sounds like he is doing the right things. Needs a year in Hershey with men.

 

[DWGie26]

The problem isn't giving up Fehervary for Chychrun. It's adding CMM or Lapierre and a high pick.

This! I think trading Fever for Chychrun is good both ways. But need more. How about AJF (cheap, young-ish, fast, and probably a pick. AZ get 4.6M off books and he’ll be more on next contract in 3 years. they have very limited gate revenue playing at ASU. Bad financials. They get cheap younger potential. Plus.

 

[Hivemind]

one mild upgrade

Fehervary to Chychrun isn't a "mild upgrade." It's a big ass upgrade. Chychrun would be this team's best defenseman, and I say that as an Orlov stan.

 

[Hivemind]

This! I think trading Fever for Chychrun is good both ways. But need more. How about AJF (cheap, young-ish, fast, and probably a pick. AZ get 4.6M off books and he’ll be more on next contract in 3 years. they have very limited gate revenue playing at ASU. Bad financials. They get cheap younger potential. Plus.

AJF doesn't even come close to the difference there. If Arizona wanted AJF, they could have claimed him on waivers last year (twice). Same with Snively or LuJo for that matter. Our mid-20s fringe NHLers do not have any notable trade value. Especially considering there are still equal-or-better UFAs they could sign for these depth winger or defense spots for free.

Clearing $4.6M AAV off the books doesn't help Arizona. They are still $1.5M below the salary floor, and Chychrun's actual salary is only $4M this season (meaning he saves them $600K in real money this year).

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Ok, which one of you posters tweeted the Cap's organization about not signing Jarnkrok? I'm joking of course and I think he's a solid, responsible player, but can you imagine how much ice time he would get with Lavi, lol.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

AJF doesn't even come close to the difference there. If Arizona wanted AJF, they could have claimed him on waivers last year (twice). Same with Snively or LuJo for that matter. Our mid-20s fringe NHLers do not have any notable trade value. Especially considering there are still equal-or-better UFAs they could sign for these depth winger or defense spots for free.

Clearing $4.6M AAV off the books doesn't help Arizona. They are still $1.5M below the salary floor, and Chychrun's actual salary is only $4M this season (meaning he saves them $600K in real money this year).

It's all fun speculation. We don't have a chance of getting Chychrun. That said, I would like some of our fringet guys like Snively and Lujo break out this year and Fever take another step forward. I mean we're due.

 

[HTFN]

They did have a poor series, no doubt about it. And yeah the forwards haven’t been very good aside from the 4th line.

But Carlson has gone from fantastic regular season player to unplayable in 4 straight postseasons. It’s not like he just does worse. He doesn’t become an average player. He becomes Ben Chiarot.

Correct me if I’m wrong but “4 straight” means you’re counting the one he played at LD for some stupid Todd Reirden related reason and one he basically played on one leg. Those might or might not be the same series, I can’t really remember, but I think they were back to back years.

To be clear, my patience is also basically done after this last season but they haven’t all been made equal either.

 

[zappa4ever]

Put those proposals into the Trade Forum and you will get laughed out of there. You can't get a team's Star 24 year old defenseman for a Conor Sheary, Joe Snively, and Lucas Johansen. Generally speaking, teams don't trade their dollar bill for four quarters, but the players you're offering there aren't even quarters. Mantha is the only valuable asset you offered up, but what good does a 27 year old forward with only two years of control left on his deal provide to Arizona?

Let's put this another way. Would you accept Dysin Mayo, Nick Ritchie, Jack McBain and picks for Tom Wilson? Because that's what your offer is.

This isn't a bad contract or a situation where a team desperately needs to get under the salary cap. You have to give to get. And Fehervary is the most sensible option to build the offer around, for both franchises. Otherwise you'd be talking about absolutely gutting the forward prospects with a McMichael & Lapierre together base for the trade. The Capitals would be acquiring a top pairing LHD with Norris-contention upside. Fehervary, while very promising, isn't going to reach the level that Chychrun could potentially reach. But he's a young, promising asset that Arizona can use as justification for letting Chychrun go.

You and I both agree on rather trading Carlson, but Carlson isnt going to waive his partial-NTC to go to Arizona.

There's no point to this argument. I didn't "offer up" anything, just a couple of random examples that excluded Fever, I don't play in 'Fantasy Trade' masturbation

I couldn't disagree more that Fever would be the most sensible option to offer up for the simple fact that he is 22 and currently THE ONLY potential long-term Top-4 Dman for this team

I've been clear that I value quality Dmen, and value keeping them and that FWDS are a dime a dozen and easily replaceable where Top 4 D are not

Since it seems the only way you think we can get Chychrun is by including Fever, that tells me that you agree that Fever is the most valuable Caps prospect

How great would it be to get 24 y.o. Chychrun, keep 22 y.o. Fever and have a great young D core to build around...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Why do you keep saying Fever is a prospect? He’s not. He’s an NHLer.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Why do you keep saying Fever is a prospect? He’s not. He’s an NHLer.

and played top line with Carlson all season vs top match ups. Not easy duty

 

[Hivemind]

Since it seems the only way you think we can get Chychrun is by including Fever, that tells me that you agree that Fever is the most valuable Caps prospect

No, it means he's the most sensible Caps asset to include in this particular trade. If we're counting players with a full season of NHL duty (like Fehervary) as prospects, then McMichael is the most valuable Caps prospect (and it's not particularly close, IMO).

There's no point to this argument. I didn't "offer up" anything, just a couple of random examples that excluded Fever, I don't play in 'Fantasy Trade' masturbation

It would be easier to admit you've never watched Chychrun instead of huffing and puffing about "masturbation."

 

[Portable Mink]

I think I like Fever the most out of any of our prospects who have played so far.

To me - he will stay a very affordable good player for a long time.

Orlov first season:
60gp 3g 16a
18pim 51 shots
99 hits 54 blocks
16:52 TOI
51.4 O zone starts
49% CF

Fever:
79gp 8g 9a
26pim 96 shots
251 hits 117 blocks
19:39 TOI
56.4 O zone starts
49% CF

Better first season than Orlov with the eye test too. Played top line… what’s not to like.

 

[Jags]

Correct me if I’m wrong but “4 straight” means you’re counting the one he played at LD for some stupid Todd Reirden related reason and one he basically played on one leg. Those might or might not be the same series, I can’t really remember, but I think they were back to back years.

It's also worth mentioning that he's played more minutes in those last 4 years than all but 6 guys in the NHL. Definitively shoring up our 3rd pair into one that doesn't require sheltered minutes might give us a chance to ease up on John a bit so he doesn't fade late in the year.

That's speculation on my part, but hockey is a brutally physical sport in terms of both physical punishment and extreme calisthenics. Of the top-10 minute-eaters over that time, he's also on the ice longer per shift than the few guys above him. And he's a mobile guy. He probably puts more miles on an NHL minute than most. We literally ask more of him physically than any other player we have, then lose our minds when he seems gassed come playoff time.