GDT: Free Agency - Oct 9th - 11:00am CT

[Crow]

Moving nylander makes no sense this year. No value. Still a lot of upside (that he probably won’t reach).

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Moving nylander makes no sense this year. No value. Still a lot of upside (that he probably won’t reach).

LOL

Aren't you in the trade Strome camp? (Maybe I am confusing you with someone else)

Strome is a 23 yr old C who has shown he is NHL player and put up pts since coming to Hawks in trade

Meanwhile Nylander who is only a year younger has shown jackshit but somehow he still has "A lot of Upside"

How does trading a talented 23 yr old C who has shown he is top 6 talent in NHL make sense but moving on from a bust who has shown jackshit in Nylander makes no sense?

 

[Hinterland]

LOL

Aren't you in the trade Strome camp? (Maybe I am confusing you with someone else)

Strome is a 23 yr old C who has shown he is NHL player and put up pts since coming to Hawks in trade

Meanwhile Nylander who is only a year younger has shown jackshit but somehow he still has "A lot of Upside"

How does trading a talented 23 yr old C who has shown he is top 6 talent in NHL make sense but moving on from a bust who has shown jackshit in Nylander makes no sense?

At this point you'd probably struggle to find somebody willing to take Nylander for future considerations. Even playing in the AHL for Rochester, he got outscored by a dozen of random AHLers on his team alone every season. He's ridiculously bad. By now, they've all seen enough of him to know how much he blows. Bury him in the AHL or in Sweden this season and if he continues to struggle scoring against men then just let him walk. If he does start scoring then we can talk again about trades.

Stan the man paid way too much to trade him for a bag of pucks or a pepperoni pizza right now. Hold on for now and if it doesn't work, just write him off.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You know the Nylander trade ended up poorly when there is no trade value but high upside...So when they made the deal for Jokiharju he clearly had trade value and high upside, now he just has high upside, unlikely because he would have good trade value...doubt nylander would go for much more than a late pick and a run of mill prospect at this point

 

[x Tame Impala]

You know the Nylander trade ended up poorly when there is no trade value but high upside...So when they made the deal for Jokiharju he clearly had trade value and high upside, now he just has high upside, unlikely because he would have good trade value...doubt nylander would go for much more than a late pick and a run of mill prospect at this point

Hated the trade when it happened but had to be patient. Still hate the trade now. He’s got 20-30 games to start showing us something or I never want to see him in a Hawks sweater again.

 

[featherhawk]

Hated the trade when it happened but had to be patient. Still hate the trade now. He’s got 20-30 games to start showing us something or I never want to see him in a Hawks sweater again.

my sentiments exactly

and don't look now Nylander, you have been and will continue to be passed by more and more youngsters in the prospect pool

time to deliver or head back to Sweden

 

[Crow]

LOL

Aren't you in the trade Strome camp? (Maybe I am confusing you with someone else)

Strome is a 23 yr old C who has shown he is NHL player and put up pts since coming to Hawks in trade

Meanwhile Nylander who is only a year younger has shown jackshit but somehow he still has "A lot of Upside"

How does trading a talented 23 yr old C who has shown he is top 6 talent in NHL make sense but moving on from a bust who has shown jackshit in Nylander makes no sense?

Yeah you have me mistaken with someone else. I would lean toward keeping Strome. Wouldn’t object to a trade if we received something even better but I don’t see that happening. I think Strome could still improve his game as well but that’s a long shot too. 22 and 23 year olds often have not yet reached their potential.

 

[Brightwing]

LOL

Aren't you in the trade Strome camp? (Maybe I am confusing you with someone else)

Strome is a 23 yr old C who has shown he is NHL player and put up pts since coming to Hawks in trade

Meanwhile Nylander who is only a year younger has shown jackshit but somehow he still has "A lot of Upside"

How does trading a talented 23 yr old C who has shown he is top 6 talent in NHL make sense but moving on from a bust who has shown jackshit in Nylander makes no sense?

The thing is you can play Nylander in the bottom six and he is fine. You can't play Strome there. Is Strome a better player than Nylander? Yes. But we probably don't have a role for him in the top 6 if they want Kirby Dach there.

I don't think Nylander has lived up to his potential but he is an NHL player as it stands until the Hawks have a better option. His point total is more a bottom six winger until the Hawks have a better option. He had 10 goals last year and 26 points. If he had an ok season, I would expect around 15 goals and 30-40 points and the potential is still there for more.

Strome, if he is playing in the bottom 6 or on the wing, I expect his points total to drop.

 

[Brightwing]

The Athletic did a piece with anonymous NHL execs analyzing each team's offseason:

Chicago Blackhawks
The Blackhawks moved on from two key members of championship teams in Corey Crawford and Brandon Saad. It’s certainly been a transitional offseason so far for the Blackhawks and while it might not have been loved by the veteran core, it got passing marks from execs.
“I know a lot of people don’t like (Nikita) Zadorov. I like him. He has a dynamic that is hard to find, which is grit, size and decent mobility,” said one. “The guy is mean. He’s downright mean.”
Said another: “(Lucas) Wallmark for 975K? I think he’s a good player. Worst-case, he’s your fourth-line center. He wins faceoffs and kills penalties. They got (Mattias) Janmark, those are two good signings. They make their team deeper. Now they have to figure out their goalie.”
This executive gave them the edge in the Saad trade, although he downplayed the impact: “I don’t know who that deal really helped. I’m not a Saad fan. I’m not that big a Zadorov fan. It got the Saad money off the books. Zadorov is physical. I think Chicago won the deal but I know Colorado didn’t need Zadorov.”

 

[Brightwing]

Colorado Avalanche
Getting Devon Toews for a pair of second-rounders was a nice piece of business by GM Joe Sakic. Chances are, those picks aren’t landing a player as useful as the 26-year-old defenseman. And Brandon Saad has championship pedigree. But this was a team that was rumored to be a part of some big moves, from upgrading their goaltending to landing Taylor Hall so there is a feeling out there that they might not be done yet.
“I liked what they did. Saad is a good secondary scorer. Nichushkin has been good for them. And now Toews,” said a Western Conference executive. “I sense Colorado is a team that is still going to do something else. Is it (signing Mike) Hoffman? Trade for a goalie? Or something else? They have the cap room to do it. I’ve liked the way Joe (Sakic) and (assistant GM) Chris MacFarland have operated the last three or four years. It has been impressive. I’ve liked what they’ve done.”
There is some question about how impactful Saad is going to be at this point in his career, despite the praise for the Avs’ offseason.
“I’m not sure how much he has left,” said an exec.
Said another: “I like what Colorado did to get Saad. For that team, it’s a good add. If you’re picking him up to be a real impact player, probably not. But to be the second tier player, I think he’s a really good one.”

 

[BobbyJet]

Colorado Avalanche
Getting Devon Toews for a pair of second-rounders was a nice piece of business by GM Joe Sakic. Chances are, those picks aren’t landing a player as useful as the 26-year-old defenseman. And Brandon Saad has championship pedigree. But this was a team that was rumored to be a part of some big moves, from upgrading their goaltending to landing Taylor Hall so there is a feeling out there that they might not be done yet.
“I liked what they did. Saad is a good secondary scorer. Nichushkin has been good for them. And now Toews,” said a Western Conference executive. “I sense Colorado is a team that is still going to do something else. Is it (signing Mike) Hoffman? Trade for a goalie? Or something else? They have the cap room to do it. I’ve liked the way Joe (Sakic) and (assistant GM) Chris MacFarland have operated the last three or four years. It has been impressive. I’ve liked what they’ve done.”
There is some question about how impactful Saad is going to be at this point in his career, despite the praise for the Avs’ offseason.
“I’m not sure how much he has left,” said an exec.
Said another: “I like what Colorado did to get Saad. For that team, it’s a good add. If you’re picking him up to be a real impact player, probably not. But to be the second tier player, I think he’s a really good one.”

It's safe to say that powerhouse Avs are one of the favourites it win it all.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The Blackhawks Talk Podcast mentioned that the Hawks had a high offer of a single second for Saad last year. I think it’s pretty clear most of us on this board wildly overvalued Saad compared to how the rest of the league sees him.

 

[HawksDub89]

The Blackhawks Talk Podcast mentioned that the Hawks had a high offer of a single second for Saad last year. I think it’s pretty clear most of us on this board wildly overvalued Saad compared to how the rest of the league sees him.

Yep.

He’s a good player, but he’s not gonna get a haul. The puckinhostile crew acts like the hawks should’ve gotten Byram and 3 1sts for saad.

He’s a replaceable player, sorry.

 

[HawksDub89]

I will say part of the problem with saad is his cap hit, he’s not a 6M per year player. That probably doesn’t help.

But yeah, I think it’s safe to say hawk fans (myself included) have a different view of saad vs the rest of the nhl.

 

[ClydeLee]

The Blackhawks Talk Podcast mentioned that the Hawks had a high offer of a single second for Saad last year. I think it’s pretty clear most of us on this board wildly overvalued Saad compared to how the rest of the league sees him.

For a player with another year on his deal at 6mil I wouldn't think he was getting a lot then. The whole concept i was always focused on though was at the next trade deadline especially if he could of been 50% retained to fit a contenders cap.

But certainly there is a big risk of that without even knowing how the next season will be played

 

[Brightwing]

For a player with another year on his deal at 6mil I wouldn't think he was getting a lot then. The whole concept i was always focused on though was at the next trade deadline especially if he could of been 50% retained to fit a contenders cap.

But certainly there is a big risk of that without even knowing how the next season will be played

So I've been thinking about this trade a lot and why they didn't wait until the deadline, because you're right they were more likely to get picks then. I think on Zawaski's podcast (which I gotta stop listening to), they were saying, what you couldn't get a third for Saad? And I'm sure you could have but the Hawks are trying to shore up their team D. With the Saad trade we got an established d-man who serves a role we didn't have previously and essentially made room for Jannmark too because without that $1.8 million in cap savings we couldn't have signed him at $2.3 million. So it's pretty clear the Hawks valued adding depth for next year was more important than a second or third round pick right now. And I think the thinking is with Jannmark, Wallmark and Zadorov all on one year contracts, there is certainly an opportunity to get picks for them at the deadline and in fact given the premium on d-man, Zadorov might return the same pick Saad would have.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

So I've been thinking about this trade a lot and why they didn't wait until the deadline, because you're right they were more likely to get picks then. I think on Zawaski's podcast (which I gotta stop listening to), they were saying, what you couldn't get a third for Saad? And I'm sure you could have but the Hawks are trying to shore up their team D. With the Saad trade we got an established d-man who serves a role we didn't have previously and essentially made room for Jannmark too because without that $1.8 million in cap savings we couldn't have signed him at $2.3 million. So it's pretty clear the Hawks valued adding depth for next year was more important than a second or third round pick right now. And I think the thinking is with Jannmark, Wallmark and Zadorov all on one year contracts, there is certainly an opportunity to get picks for them at the deadline and in fact given the premium on d-man, Zadorov might return the same pick Saad would have.

good point that the sum of janmark, wallmark and zadorov might yield a higher return than saad himself...if all 3 are flipped at the deadline that is probably at least a 3rd in a typical year...if zadorov has a good year a 2nd would not be surprising given the type of style he plays and how much ppl might want to add that going into playoffs, and the control he'll have beyond next year etc

 

[Hinterland]

It's safe to say that powerhouse Avs are one of the favourites it win it all.

They'd need a new coach to win anything.

 

[ozzzie19]

The thing is you can play Nylander in the bottom six and he is fine. You can't play Strome there. Is Strome a better player than Nylander? Yes. But we probably don't have a role for him in the top 6 if they want Kirby Dach there.

I don't think Nylander has lived up to his potential but he is an NHL player as it stands until the Hawks have a better option. His point total is more a bottom six winger until the Hawks have a better option. He had 10 goals last year and 26 points. If he had an ok season, I would expect around 15 goals and 30-40 points and the potential is still there for more.

Strome, if he is playing in the bottom 6 or on the wing, I expect his points total to drop.

The thing about Nylander is if you look at his 5 on 5 stats and adjust for ice time, he actually had a pretty decent year. His goals/60 minutes was .85, compared to Cat at .45 and Toews at .70. He certainly failed the eye test 95% of the time but his overall #s are depressed by the fact that he got relatively little PP time (and didn't do much of anything with the time he got).

Its a fun game to play to compare Nylander's 5v5 TOI adjusted stats to others. For example, Svechnikov had 1.37 goals+primary assists/60 minutes. Nylander had 1.53.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

I see the potential in Nylander. He is young, I still think he puts it together. People expecting him to be an absolute point machine right now aren't considering that he wasn't even an elite level prospect when he came in, then he was put into a terrible development system. It'll take some time for him to get it together. I may be way off but you can see the talent is there, he just needs to demonstrate it consistently. Fingers crossed?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Marleau is a future hall of farmer, so good for him if he breaks the Howe games played record.

I often wonder what would happen if some rando broke a games played record in any league. Like a consistent third liner in the NHL or a fourth/fifth starter in the NBA or a solid utility infielder in the MLB. Just a replacement guy that stays healthy and keeps getting signed. Would an average player breaking or especially shattering a games played record get them into the Hall?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Marleau is a future hall of farmer, so good for him if he breaks the Howe games played record.

I often wonder what would happen if some rando broke a games played record in any league. Like a consistent third liner in the NHL or a fourth/fifth starter in the NBA or a solid utility infielder in the MLB. Just a replacement guy that stays healthy and keeps getting signed. Would an average player breaking or especially shattering a games played record get them into the Hall?

A bottom 6 guy wouldn’t get in.

 

[Hinterland]

I see the potential in Nylander. He is young, I still think he puts it together. People expecting him to be an absolute point machine right now aren't considering that he wasn't an elite level prospect when we came in, then was put into a terrible development system. It'll take some time for him to get it together. I may be way off but you can see the talent is there, it is just putting ot all together consistently. Fingers crossed?

4 pro seasons played and never scored more than 35 points...even at AHL level he got outscored by a dozen of random teammates every season. For a player who offers nothing in other areas, 35 points are nowhere near enough. He was also brutal in every single playoff game he played. 11 games, 0 points, -5. He doesn't even try to make it look as if he'd care. This season is his last chance. If he fails to prove that he can score at pro level then I think his NHL career is over before it started.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

So Allen not only signed thru this year but now 2 more

Doesn't make sense as original talk was Allen was brought in so Primeau could spend another year in AHL and then come up to assume #2 spot

Very Bowman like to extend a guy who has not even played for you while he is already under contract for year

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I said it at the time, RE: Nylander. Taking a shot on Nylander is fine, I even supported acquiring him or Puljujarvi last year. They paid too much, even if Jokiharju only has the ceiling of a #4-5. The huge issue is that you took a probable NHL contributor on an ELC and traded him for a lottery ticket. I understand why they did it. It was going to be hard to keep Jokiharju come expansion draft time. The acquisition was fine, the price wasn't.