Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 4

[Golden_Jet]

If Norris goes on a 30 day LTIR, is it safe to say that this returns 800K to the salary cap pot?

LTIR does not accrue cap space. Temp relief while on LTIR, but no accrual. So no to the 800k.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Not if I understand what you're suggesting.

When a player goes on LTIR, the team stops accumulating capspace from unused cap, and gains access to cap relief.

We can use the LTIR relief to sign Pinto and pay him, but as soon as Norris is back were in pretty much the same situation.

The benefit is it would buy time for Kleven to play some games in Belleville and for you to find a trade partner for Brannstrom.

(Or Joseph).

 

[Golden_Jet]

The Norris situation is just going to drag out the Pinto negotiations, since Pinto is just going to try to get more money due to Norris potentially ending up on LTIR.

No affect, just pushes back the problem, no cap savings, just temp relief.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Not if I understand what you're suggesting.

When a player goes on LTIR, the team stops accumulating capspace from unused cap, and gains access to cap relief.

We can use the LTIR relief to sign Pinto and pay him, but as soon as Norris is back were in pretty much the same situation.

But we have more “control” (unofficially) over when he comes back, vice start of the season. Right? Yes, I know it’s not supposed to work like that, but two recent cup winners exploited LTIR to a way more significant extent.

 

[Micklebot]

But we have more “control” (unofficially) over when he comes back, vice start of the season. Right? Yes, I know it’s not supposed to work like that, but two recent cup winners exploited LTIR to a way more significant extent.

That seems pretty different to me, Stone saying he'll wait a couple more weeks before being activated seems more plausible than Norris saying take your time and find the right trade before activating me.

 

[HSF]

if Norris isnt ready just throw him on LTIR and figure out the rest once he is ready. Pinto should have been signed yesterday

If he is on LTIR for a month we could still have other injuries. Keep the depth for as long as possible

 

[swiftwin]

if Norris isnt ready just throw him on LTIR and figure out the rest once he is ready. Pinto should have been signed yesterday

This is shortsighted and will only make things worse.

 

[HSF]

This is shortsighted and will only make things worse.

not really. It keeps your depth while Norris gets better. If another injury happens and Norris is back we can keep the depth.

Pinto should be signed regardless to get him in camp. We can spend over the cap rn. Waiting this long to sign a 1.6-2.5 mill player is moronic while having him miss camp

 

[HSF]

https://x.com/PierreVLeBrun/status/1709671258474897876?s=20

 

[Big Muddy]

not really. It keeps your depth while Norris gets better. If another injury happens and Norris is back we can keep the depth.

Pinto should be signed regardless to get him in camp. We can spend over the cap rn. Waiting this long to sign a 1.6-2.5 mill player is moronic while having him miss camp

IF is the operative word. Yes, it buys time. It's possible that another injury will occur and that player is placed on LTIR. Its also possible that won't happen. We could get lucky with another team having an injury and our guy is seen as a viable replacement. Ultimately, it's a roll of the dice.

 

[HSF]

IF is the operative word. Yes, it buys time. It's possible that another injury will occur and that player is placed on LTIR. Its also possible that won't happen. We could get lucky with another team having an injury and our guy is seen as a viable replacement. Ultimately, it's a roll of the dice.

not really cause then you can make a trade

 

[Big Muddy]

not really cause then you can make a trade

Well yes, that was obvious & understood. And the trade made further down the road could be just as bad as the trade we make now that we are trying to avoid.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

That seems pretty different to me, Stone saying he'll wait a couple more weeks before being activated seems more plausible than Norris saying take your time and find the right trade before activating me.

Sure, good point, but the whole LTIR thing seems abused and unfair with teams getting away with shenanigans. Having two recent Stanley cup winners icing teams significantly over the cap makes it all a mockery, it seems like us blurring the margins would pale in comparison

 

[HSF]

Well yes, that was obvious & understood. And the trade made further down the road could be just as bad as the trade we make now that we are trying to avoid.

what is the alternative?

 

[Big Muddy]

what is the alternative?

Now you are introducing a different subject. I am not opposed to the idea of buying time by putting Norris on LTIR. I'm just saying that the delay tactic might work, or it might not work. There's no guarantee. It's a roll of the dice.

Edit/update - Discussing the alternative solutions would be a good subject for a separate thread or poll.

 

[Ouroboros]

At this point you may as well just let the Pinto situation ride for a little while longer. Norris' health seems to have a much grimmer outlook than it did a few weeks ago and for me that changes things. Besides, even if he signed tomorrow there's no guarantee that he'd be ready to go on opening night.

How crazy would it be to give up a 1st to move Joseph only for Norris to end up on LTIR a few days later because his shoulder didn't hold? If he needs another procedure he certainly wouldn't be coming back this season, and in fact his career would be in jeopardy. So at that point you can just sign Pinto without making a move.

If Norris goes down it doesn't really matter that Pinto missed time because the season is f***ed anyway. Barring massive offseason improvements he isn't good enough to get it done in that slot.

Need some clarity on exactly how bad this shoulder 'tweak' really is, but it's not looking good.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

Sure, good point, but the whole LTIR thing seems abused and unfair with teams getting away with shenanigans. Having two recent Stanley cup winners icing teams significantly over the cap makes it all a mockery, it seems like us blurring the margins would pale in comparison

That Vegas Cup especially has a massive asterisk beside it. Cap shenanigans, maybe 2 players they drafted themselves, the advantages they had at expansion. Ugh.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

At this point you may as well just let the Pinto situation ride for a little while longer. Norris' health situation seems to have a much grimmer outlook than it did a few weeks ago and for me that changes things. Besides, even if he signed tomorrow there's no guarantee that he'd be ready to go on opening night.

How crazy would it be to give up a 1st to move Joseph only for Norris to end up on LTIR a few days later because his shoulder didn't hold? If he needs another procedure he certainly wouldn't be coming back this season, and in fact his career would be in jeopardy. So at that point you can just sign Pinto without making a move.

If Norris goes down it doesn't really matter that Pinto missed time because the season is f***ed anyway. Barring massive offseason improvements he isn't good enough to get it done in that slot.

Need some clarity on exactly how bad this shoulder 'tweak' really is, but it's not looking good.

All right. We are down the rabbit hole now.

What do we do if it is determined the Norris shoulder situation is not good and requires surgery and/or he is sidelined long term.

You put Norris on LTIR and you sign Pinto.
What next?

At Centre, do you run with:
Stutzle
Pinto
Jarventie/Greig
Kastelic

Do you try and make a trade? If so, who might be out there?
Are there any free agents out there still worth considering?

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Delete

 

[Ouroboros]

All right. We are down the rabbit hole now.

What do we do if it is determined the Norris shoulder situation is not good and requires surgery and/or he is sidelined long term.

You put Norris on LTIR and you sign Pinto.
What next?

At Centre, do you run with:
Stutzle
Pinto
Jarventie/Greig
Kastelic

Do you try and make a trade? If so, who might be out there?
Are there any free agents out there still worth considering?

Just get Greig in there as 3C. Let him start learning on the job because we would really need him to be good long-term in this situation.

You wouldn't be able to make a trade. To get a team to give you a quality center in the middle of October you'd probably have to pay 3x market price. It would be the Chychrun saga all over again - teams would see how desperate Dorion is and would try to grind him into dust. Things only happen in the hockey world when a deadline forces action.

 

[bert]

All right. We are down the rabbit hole now.

What do we do if it is determined the Norris shoulder situation is not good and requires surgery and/or he is sidelined long term.

You put Norris on LTIR and you sign Pinto.
What next?

At Centre, do you run with:
Stutzle
Pinto
Jarventie/Greig
Kastelic

Do you try and make a trade? If so, who might be out there?
Are there any free agents out there still worth considering?

I think with this teams d core and the natural improvement in those 5 centers that's still a playoff team. I expect Pinto to take a big jump this year. He's going to have more motivated and better linemates as the team overall has more depth. He's played an 82 game season his body is ready this year. I expect 25 + goals and 55 + points from him while getting better in the dot and defenisvely.

To me I think it's time to just look at this team moving forward without Norris. Is grieg ready for 3rd line duties? I think Pinto is for 2.

 

[Wondercarrot]

All right. We are down the rabbit hole now.

What do we do if it is determined the Norris shoulder situation is not good and requires surgery and/or he is sidelined long term.

You put Norris on LTIR and you sign Pinto.
What next?

At Centre, do you run with:
Stutzle
Pinto
Jarventie/Greig
Kastelic

Do you try and make a trade? If so, who might be out there?
Are there any free agents out there still worth considering?

Keep calm, carry on, and evaluate throughout the season, and deal with everything in the offseason.
You may have a new coach, new GM etc.
do not make a panic move and waste assets, let the ones we have play.

 

[HSF]

Just get Greig in there as 3C. Let him start learning on the job because we would really need him to be good long-term in this situation.

You wouldn't be able to make a trade. To get a team to give you a quality center in the middle of October you'd probably have to pay 3x market price. It would be the Chychrun saga all over again - teams would see how desperate Dorion is and would try to grind him into dust. Things only happen in the hockey world when a deadline forces action.

meh Greig is also really injury prone and probably will take time to learn the game.

If Norris is out longterm the sens should make a deal to get a vet 3C who can help them on the defensive side of the game and faceoffs

 

[JD1]

The Norris situation sucks but the team is in a much stronger position.

Last season we had less than 50 games of NHL C experience between our 1&2 Cs. This year, we've got Stuetzle and Pinto each with a full year under their belts in those roles. Kastelic with a full year under his belt in the 4C slot and if the 3C is Greig, he has more NHL games on his resume than Pinto did when Pinto took on the 2C role.

The team is in a tricky spot here. Just how injured is Norris? They're obviously not going to come out and express concern unless they shut him down so the messaging stays the same. Tweak. Tweak. But they've got to know how serious it is. Mendes commented the other day that Norris was initiating contact in a 3 on 3 game. That kinda says it's not too bad. Hopefully he's good to go soon.

 

[bert]

meh Greig is also really injury prone and probably will take time to learn the game.

If Norris is out longterm the sens should make a deal to get a vet 3C who can help them on the defensive side of the game and faceoffs

Who's trading a vet 3 C now? Before the season when everyone thinks they have a shot at playoffs.... No one.... They Have to see what they have got in Grieg/Jarventie. Time for these prospects to play they are at that age. Natural progression and development was always supposed to happen this season when you look at everyone's core age.

The Norris situation sucks but the team is in a much stronger position.

Last season we had less than 50 games of NHL C experience between our 1&2 Cs. This year, we've got Stuetzle and Pinto each with a full year under their belts in those roles. Kastelic with a full year under his belt in the 4C slot and if the 3C is Greig, he has more NHL games on his resume than Pinto did when Pinto took on the 2C role.

The team is in a tricky spot here. Just how injured is Norris? They're obviously not going to come out and express concern unless they shut him down so the messaging stays the same. Tweak. Tweak. But they've got to know how serious it is. Mendes commented the other day that Norris was initiating contact in a 3 on 3 game. That kinda says it's not too bad. Hopefully he's good to go soon.

He's been hurt all summer. Time to move on without the player. No looking back. Can't take the next step hoping for help from a savior that isn't coming. The sens have a great group they need to focus on what they have. They need Pinto signed really badly.