Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?
Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?
There is some speculation that his desire to test the market was primarily due to unhappiness with the DB and/or RS regime, which may have changed in the meantime. If it has and he wants to re-sign, then I'm on board, though it means we're going to continue with a logjam at the blueline that should be addressed sooner rather than later. If he re-signs and Ehrhoff walks, and assuming no other moves (Scuderi...), you go into next year with a top-6 of Martin, Letang, Scuderi, Maatta, Despres, Bort. Doesn't leave much room for Dumoulin, Harrington, or Pouliot (and beyond them, Samuelsson and Ruopp). At some point, you have to move someone for help up front.
Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?
Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?
Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound
or
Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?
There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO
Yes, teams that think they have a shot at the Cup would trade for short term players (Martin), but they aren't likely to trade away a top 6 winger (what the Penguins would be looking for).
Edit: ...at the deadline.
I agree with this.
Again, Im all on board for trading Martin, Im just worried about Maata coming back and not playing up to his level. Then the D core is kinda stuck having Letang, Ehroff and the top 2, Scuds (who stinks) and 4 other guys who dont have 100 games under their belt. Its risky.
It's not that simple. Martin could bring back a top 6 winger. Scuderi can't.
Man, I'd really need to see the return for Martin before I'd know which to choose. I think right now I'd lean toward dumping Scuderi since he's dead weight and we have countless young D that can handle his role.Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound
or
Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?
There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO
Let's trade Ehrhoff. He might walk after the season for nothing!
Martin was not open to discussing an extension this off-season, which means he's walking next summer. I'd bet money on it.
We already lost 2 top-4 defenseman without getting anything in return.. It would be painful to lose 3 in <1year. We would start becoming the Senators at that point.
To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.
I think likely is the key word. It really depends on each individual team and their needs. I'm just rejecting it as a blanket statement.Yes, teams that think they have a shot at the Cup would trade for short term players (Martin), but they aren't likely to trade away a top 6 winger (what the Penguins would be looking for).
Edit: ...at the deadline.
Man, I'd really need to see the return for Martin before I'd know which to choose. I think right now I'd lean toward dumping Scuderi since he's dead weight and we have countless young D that can handle his role.
Unless they're in the opposite position from us and have too many wings and not enough defense.
Look, no one (that is sane) is saying we should deal Martin for anything before we lose him next year to UFA. They're saying make a hockey trade and use our depth on the blueline to improve our wing situation.
Thats a fair point. Yes, hopefully he rebounds and has a stellar season. But thats just it .. hope. We hope that Maatta comes back and plays just as well as last year and doesnt slump. We jope some of the younger guys can come up and make a difference.
This is why Im nervous about trading Martin. He is a rock solid dman back there in case the other guys struggle.
Im NOT against trading him. Not at all. Im just of the mindset that we bide our time a little until the whoe lay of the land on D gets a little less murky.
Shero got Neal and Kunitz. Rutherford traded one of those. In spite of the owners' mandate to get more help for Sid and Geno, we have one less elite winger than we had to start the summer, and like the majority of non-Pens fans looking to rationalize the return I'm not convinced we're a better team after that trade.
On top of that, we had the cap space and fit for Kulemin here that would have given us size, grit, and established chemistry to assuage Malkin after the Neal trade. Rutherford opted for a defenseman instead. If he thinks he can do better via trade, great. If he can't, it's a problem.
Where was all this rope when we led the league in man-games lost last year?
I don't think it makes us a better team if that's how we enter the season. Whatever happened to putting Crosby and Malkin in position to succeed?
Now we just tell them to get over it like JR says, I guess.
I'm failing to see how Hornqvist has been any better. Or even as good.
Right now it's a judgement based purely on style rather than results
Yeah, I think this is about where I'm at re: Martin.
It's a real shame that this team refused to see what it had in it's young blueliners for so many years. It would have potentially made a situation like this exact one a heck of a lot less, well... murky.
Now they are in a situation where they (still) desperately need help up top but also can't flip a guy with good value (and some motivation to trade, should he really not be interested in talking contract) like Martin without quite a bit of discomfort and potential regret. All trades carry risk, of course... but especially so when you know practically nothing about the 3-5ish players that would potentially be replacing him.
I swear, people here forget that the #1 goal is to win a cup. If we can get a top-6 winger for him, we should definitely do the trade. However, trading him for futures because of asset management is stupid. If we can get something to help our roster now, it would be a great idea. If we're getting futures, it's stupid.
Either way, Scuderi should be dumped now.
Two wingers in 8 years. One of which is turning 35. JR will address that reality. Neal isnt elite. So I dont think this team will miss him nearly as much as you say.
To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.
You think Kulemin fixes our top 6? B/c we'd have a very difficult time adding another under the cap without dumping Scuds. I prefer adding a legit top line winger and having Ehrhoff over Kule. Makes dumping Scuds easier. And moving Martin a possibility.
To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.
Not to mention that Kulemin and Grabovski were a package deal, a point that RRP continues to pretend doesn't exist.