Salary Cap: Free Agency Doldrums - Part VII | Taters Signs Rehab Contract with Pens. e6

[888 98 twins]

Let's trade Ehrhoff. He might walk after the season for nothing!

 

[themethod7]

Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?

Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?

There is some speculation that his desire to test the market was primarily due to unhappiness with the DB and/or RS regime, which may have changed in the meantime. If it has and he wants to re-sign, then I'm on board, though it means we're going to continue with a logjam at the blueline that should be addressed sooner rather than later. If he re-signs and Ehrhoff walks, and assuming no other moves (Scuderi...), you go into next year with a top-6 of Martin, Letang, Scuderi, Maatta, Despres, Bort. Doesn't leave much room for Dumoulin, Harrington, or Pouliot (and beyond them, Samuelsson and Ruopp). At some point, you have to move someone for help up front.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

There is some speculation that his desire to test the market was primarily due to unhappiness with the DB and/or RS regime, which may have changed in the meantime. If it has and he wants to re-sign, then I'm on board, though it means we're going to continue with a logjam at the blueline that should be addressed sooner rather than later. If he re-signs and Ehrhoff walks, and assuming no other moves (Scuderi...), you go into next year with a top-6 of Martin, Letang, Scuderi, Maatta, Despres, Bort. Doesn't leave much room for Dumoulin, Harrington, or Pouliot (and beyond them, Samuelsson and Ruopp). At some point, you have to move someone for help up front.

I agree with this.

Again, Im all on board for trading Martin, Im just worried about Maata coming back and not playing up to his level. Then the D core is kinda stuck having Letang, Ehroff and the top 2, Scuds (who stinks) and 4 other guys who dont have 100 games under their belt. Its risky.

 

[Captain Hook]

Has there been any reason why Martin wants to test the market (besides money) ?

Was it not only a season or 2 ago that Shero asked him if he wanted to stay, when MM got dealt and they both played like dog poo, and he said that he did, he wanted to get back to where his playing level was, and he liked it in Pitt?

I have no idea. Martin has never been overly money hungry. He actually took a lot less money to come here. He did that to have a better chance to win but we haven't won. Maybe he's become as frustrated with the direction of the team as some of us fans were. We made changes but maybe he's only cautiously optimistic about the changes and doesn't want to marry himself to the team long-term.

 

[pistolpete11]

Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound

or

Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?

There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO

It's not that simple. Martin could bring back a top 6 winger. Scuderi can't.

 

[Pens1566]

Yes, teams that think they have a shot at the Cup would trade for short term players (Martin), but they aren't likely to trade away a top 6 winger (what the Penguins would be looking for).

Edit: ...at the deadline.

Unless they're in the opposite position from us and have too many wings and not enough defense.

Look, no one (that is sane) is saying we should deal Martin for anything before we lose him next year to UFA. They're saying make a hockey trade and use our depth on the blueline to improve our wing situation.

 

[cassius]

Martin was not open to discussing an extension this off-season, which means he's walking next summer. I'd bet money on it.

We already lost 2 top-4 defenseman without getting anything in return.. It would be painful to lose 3 in <1year. We would start becoming the Senators at that point.

If you know a player has value.. And he has no intention of re-signing, you trade him. Same thing happened with Staal.

 

[themethod7]

I agree with this.

Again, Im all on board for trading Martin, Im just worried about Maata coming back and not playing up to his level. Then the D core is kinda stuck having Letang, Ehroff and the top 2, Scuds (who stinks) and 4 other guys who dont have 100 games under their belt. Its risky.

To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.

 

[Hottubber]

It's not that simple. Martin could bring back a top 6 winger. Scuderi can't.

I stated that Martin could bring back a guy that could hopefully play top 6. Either an established player or a younger guy that is on the verge and hopefully could make the jump.

I realize Scuderi would literally be a dump. All that would do is set the team up to trade for a player and use the cap space.

Trading Martin, while leaving a hole in the d, opens up cap space and hopefully lands you a player that could slide into the top 6 in 1 shot. This is all under the assumption that he doesn't want to resign

 

[Captain Hook]

Would you rather trade Martin for a decent young player + pick and roll the dice with Scuderi and hope he can rebound

or

Would you rather dump Scuds, and keep Martin til the season end?

There are a lot of what if's,but the chances of both Martin and Scuderi being on the roster in October aren't great IMO

Man, I'd really need to see the return for Martin before I'd know which to choose. I think right now I'd lean toward dumping Scuderi since he's dead weight and we have countless young D that can handle his role.

Let's trade Ehrhoff. He might walk after the season for nothing!

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Martin was not open to discussing an extension this off-season, which means he's walking next summer. I'd bet money on it.

We already lost 2 top-4 defenseman without getting anything in return.. It would be painful to lose 3 in <1year. We would start becoming the Senators at that point.

Right, you give the guy a chance to sign, if he won't, you have to move on. It's not like this team is set and stable and an odds on favorite to win it all this year.

Ehrhoff is the guy you want to try and extend. He's already been paid, so money will be less important, and he's a lot younger. He gives us a PPQB and can play both sides effectively. And he wanted to come to Pittsburgh. Sure you can say he came here to cash in on his next deal, but if he likes it here and you make him a fair offer, you've got a great chance to keep him, and plenty of cap space to do so.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.

Thats a fair point. Yes, hopefully he rebounds and has a stellar season. But thats just it .. hope. We hope that Maatta comes back and plays just as well as last year and doesnt slump. We jope some of the younger guys can come up and make a difference.

This is why Im nervous about trading Martin. He is a rock solid dman back there in case the other guys struggle.

Im NOT against trading him. Not at all. Im just of the mindset that we bide our time a little until the whoe lay of the land on D gets a little less murky.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Yes, teams that think they have a shot at the Cup would trade for short term players (Martin), but they aren't likely to trade away a top 6 winger (what the Penguins would be looking for).

Edit: ...at the deadline.

I think likely is the key word. It really depends on each individual team and their needs. I'm just rejecting it as a blanket statement.

I mean, people are talking about trading guys like Maatta, Despres, Sutter, and Bennett to fill our needs for a few years.

 

[cassius]

Man, I'd really need to see the return for Martin before I'd know which to choose. I think right now I'd lean toward dumping Scuderi since he's dead weight and we have countless young D that can handle his role.

Trading Scuderi would solve a lot of problems, but unfortunately.. He just doesn't have much value around the league. (For the reasons you mentioned).

 

[pistolpete11]

Unless they're in the opposite position from us and have too many wings and not enough defense.

Look, no one (that is sane) is saying we should deal Martin for anything before we lose him next year to UFA. They're saying make a hockey trade and use our depth on the blueline to improve our wing situation.

I don't think the chances are very good of a team being in the exact opposite position, wanting Martin, and willing to give up what we want at the deadline. I don't want to put all my eggs in that basket. It's too risky and I think we would end up going into the post season with a hole (or 2) in the top 6.

I'm all for making a hockey trade with Martin. I just think they should do it now instead of at the deadline.

 

[penguins2946*]

I swear, people here forget that the #1 goal is to win a cup. If we can get a top-6 winger for him, we should definitely do the trade. However, trading him for futures because of asset management is stupid. If we can get something to help our roster now, it would be a great idea. If we're getting futures, it's stupid.

Either way, Scuderi should be dumped now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Thats a fair point. Yes, hopefully he rebounds and has a stellar season. But thats just it .. hope. We hope that Maatta comes back and plays just as well as last year and doesnt slump. We jope some of the younger guys can come up and make a difference.

This is why Im nervous about trading Martin. He is a rock solid dman back there in case the other guys struggle.

Im NOT against trading him. Not at all. Im just of the mindset that we bide our time a little until the whoe lay of the land on D gets a little less murky.

Yeah, I think this is about where I'm at re: Martin.

It's a real shame that this team refused to see what it had in it's young blueliners for so many years. It would have potentially made a situation like this exact one a heck of a lot less, well... murky.

Now they are in a situation where they (still) desperately need help up top but also can't flip a guy with good value (and some motivation to trade, should he really not be interested in talking contract) like Martin without quite a bit of discomfort and potential regret. All trades carry risk, of course... but especially so when you know practically nothing about the 3-5ish players that would potentially be replacing him.

 

[mpp9]

Shero got Neal and Kunitz. Rutherford traded one of those. In spite of the owners' mandate to get more help for Sid and Geno, we have one less elite winger than we had to start the summer, and like the majority of non-Pens fans looking to rationalize the return I'm not convinced we're a better team after that trade.

Two wingers in 8 years. One of which is turning 35. JR will address that reality. Neal isnt elite. So I dont think this team will miss him nearly as much as you say.

On top of that, we had the cap space and fit for Kulemin here that would have given us size, grit, and established chemistry to assuage Malkin after the Neal trade. Rutherford opted for a defenseman instead. If he thinks he can do better via trade, great. If he can't, it's a problem.

You think Kulemin fixes our top 6? B/c we'd have a very difficult time adding another under the cap without dumping Scuds. I prefer adding a legit top line winger and having Ehrhoff over Kule. Makes dumping Scuds easier. And moving Martin a possibility.

Where was all this rope when we led the league in man-games lost last year?

I was fine waiting to address the top 6. Not sure what youre talking about.

I don't think it makes us a better team if that's how we enter the season. Whatever happened to putting Crosby and Malkin in position to succeed?

Do you honestly think we need our roster set up by camp? And do you see us in need of that top 6 forward to earn a playoff spot?

Now we just tell them to get over it like JR says, I guess.

I must have missed that quote. Maybe finding the right players is more important than having them play with their friends? Doing right by them doesnt have a happiness clause.

I'm failing to see how Hornqvist has been any better. Or even as good.

Right now it's a judgement based purely on style rather than results

Hes part of the puzzle. A damn solid piece to add.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Yeah, I think this is about where I'm at re: Martin.

It's a real shame that this team refused to see what it had in it's young blueliners for so many years. It would have potentially made a situation like this exact one a heck of a lot less, well... murky.

Now they are in a situation where they (still) desperately need help up top but also can't flip a guy with good value (and some motivation to trade, should he really not be interested in talking contract) like Martin without quite a bit of discomfort and potential regret. All trades carry risk, of course... but especially so when you know practically nothing about the 3-5ish players that would potentially be replacing him.

I agree entirely.

 

[themethod7]

I swear, people here forget that the #1 goal is to win a cup. If we can get a top-6 winger for him, we should definitely do the trade. However, trading him for futures because of asset management is stupid. If we can get something to help our roster now, it would be a great idea. If we're getting futures, it's stupid.

Either way, Scuderi should be dumped now.

Uh yeah, that's the goal every year, not just this one. Just throwing out random numbers, if trading Martin now reduces your chances from 30% to 20% this year but increases it to 30% next year, 40% the year after, and 50% the year after that, then you'd be stupid not to make that trade.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Two wingers in 8 years. One of which is turning 35. JR will address that reality. Neal isnt elite. So I dont think this team will miss him nearly as much as you say.

Just a note on that ..

I dont think Neal, overall, is elite. However, Id say he's pretty elite when paired with Geno.

In the past 3 seasons, he's close to a PPG in the regular season. Thats pretty dominant company.

Before that? He was certainly talented but not a huge game breaker. Id say he will go back to his former self 25g/50pts or so. Not that this is anything to shake a stick at but it isnt elite.

 

[IcedCapp]

To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.

Despite Shero's indications otherwise, I do not believe Rob Scuderi is the type of player you regret walking away, regardless of how much of his previous form he regains.

You can find Rob Scuderis, Robyn Regehrs, etc... easier than you can find any other type of defenseman.

I don't care how he rebounds. Let him go. The worst that can happen is he goes on to be a #4 defensive D and we find out the players we have can't cut it.

WHICH WE SORT OF NEED TO FIND OUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME. Year after year saying, "the Penguins have the deepest blueline depth in the league" is meaningless if that depth never turns into something.

 

[Waffle Fries]

You think Kulemin fixes our top 6? B/c we'd have a very difficult time adding another under the cap without dumping Scuds. I prefer adding a legit top line winger and having Ehrhoff over Kule. Makes dumping Scuds easier. And moving Martin a possibility.

Not to mention that Kulemin and Grabovski were a package deal, a point that RRP continues to pretend doesn't exist.

 

[billybudd]

To be fair, we have no idea how Scuderi will perform in our new system; safe to say that you couldn't have come up with a worse system for him last year, so the hope is he rebounds a bit. My biggest problem with him is the money, but that's less of an issue after FA started and we've seen what other guys are signing for - makes me hopeful his contract doesn't make him as untradeable as I would have thought just a few weeks ago.

It's very possible Johnston's expectations are even worse for Scuds. Dan wanted the D moving the puck quickly. He didn't seem to care how accurately you moved it.

Johnston's made it a point to say banking the puck off the glass instead of making an intelligent play to an open outlet is something that he views as completely unacceptable. On his best day, Scuds couldn't really do what Johnston's asking. It's not Scuds' best day.

Maybe he has something left, maybe he doesn't. Regardless, I'm pretty confident he will fail miserably if he stays here.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Not to mention that Kulemin and Grabovski were a package deal, a point that RRP continues to pretend doesn't exist.

Would have been interesting to see Kulemin and Grabo coming to the Pens.

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